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Thread: My State Will Be Delicensed, Is Yours Next?

  1. #51
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    I must be bucking futz, but things are going just fine where I am, and the young kids get their Zenni and their Warby, unless they really need glasses, then they come see me. The 30's and up come see me if they need glasses also, I'm banking on it. Literally banking my future on it.

    It will be different than many of you have done with, I have a feeling I'll be working a lot harder than some of you had to, to make the same amount of $, but I love this job and I'm going to find my niche.

    Its a good while away from becoming along the likes of a cobbler, at least I hope so.

    I could only hope that 20% of the indie competition around me failed, I would be sitting pretty then! :)

    EDIT: I realize that I am in an already unlicensed state, but maybe this gives hope to some of those who are in states about to be deregulated?
    Last edited by Tallboy; 05-26-2015 at 04:32 PM.

  2. #52
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    In response to your first statement; yes, you are.
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  3. #53
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    Redhot Jumper only hope that 20% of the indie competition around me failed ..........

    Quote Originally Posted by Tallboy View Post


    I could only hope that 20% of the indie competition around me failed, I would be sitting pretty then! :)

    EDIT: I realize that I am in an already unlicensed state, but maybe this gives hope to some of those who are in states about to be deregulated?

    You will be soon regulated by your suppliers who control the market and then can cut off your supply chain if they believe you are acting against their interests.

  4. #54
    Master OptiBoarder ziggy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallboy View Post
    I must be bucking futz, but things are going just fine where I am, and the young kids get their Zenni and their Warby, unless they really need glasses, then they come see me. The 30's and up come see me if they need glasses also, I'm banking on it. Literally banking my future on it.

    It will be different than many of you have done with, I have a feeling I'll be working a lot harder than some of you had to, to make the same amount of $, but I love this job and I'm going to find my niche.

    Its a good while away from becoming along the likes of a cobbler, at least I hope so.

    I could only hope that 20% of the indie competition around me failed, I would be sitting pretty then! :)

    EDIT: I realize that I am in an already unlicensed state, but maybe this gives hope to some of those who are in states about to be deregulated?
    Just a thought, I’m glad that things seem to be working for you at this point. The problem arises when those teens and 20 something patients become 30. If they are used to ordering their glasses online they will continue do so. To illustrate a point, I just now received a phone call from a patient who needed to order more contact lens. This patient now resides in Denver and could order on line but he is used to ordering from me. Keep your patients close or they will not be your patients for long. BTW he is 26.
    Paul:cheers:

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    You will be soon regulated by your suppliers who control the market and then can cut off your supply chain if they believe you are acting against their interests.
    Vertical integration is a threat to independent business. The only ways I can fight this is by voting, having a strong connection to my independent labs, and by not focusing so much on the "brands" I sell but rather the full spectrem of quality I bring, I very rarely talk brands in my office. I'm quick to repair clean and discuss glasses though.

    And Ziggy I agree with you to an extent but the young girls and guys who want 3 pairs of 99 dollar eyeglasses from online are not my customers, we strive to be a true family optical, from children to 100 year olds, focusing on quality and a warm atmosphere and straight up pricing with no games. I will never convince the girl at the coffeeshop with a -1.00 ou rx that that wants the "look" she wants cheap that her glasses from online were a bad idea, thats for her to realize, and honestly if she is happy with them why should I care? She probably would have just got glasses at walmart or costco anyway. I don't have any customers leave me for online, at least not yet.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallboy View Post
    And Ziggy I agree with you to an extent but the young girls and guys who want 3 pairs of 99 dollar eyeglasses from online are not my customers...
    No, but they used to be.


    Think about it...
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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johns View Post
    No, but they used to be.


    Think about it...
    "think" Is that a new optical term ?

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by idispense View Post
    "think" Is that a new optical term ?
    Actually, it's a technique that some of us old timers still use!
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  9. #59
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    Blue Jumper Actually, it's a technique that some of us old timers still use!

    Quote Originally Posted by Johns View Post

    Actually, it's a technique that some of us old timers still use!

    I just started to think..........when I looked at that thread where they are singing the glory to big E and their fantastic lenses.

    I can still do it.

  10. #60
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  11. #61
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    Hi All,

    I am from NY...and licensed here and in Florida. We need to be able to REFRACT if we are going to survive as a profession. Has any one noticed that we are already excluded from all managed care insurance, of which 90% of the people seems to have. Unless we can add REFRACTION to our scope of practice, none of us will be able to practice as independents and will lose out to big boxes, chains or the Internet.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by eyeguyss View Post
    Hi All,

    I am from NY...and licensed here and in Florida. We need to be able to REFRACT if we are going to survive as a profession. Has any one noticed that we are already excluded from all managed care insurance, of which 90% of the people seems to have. Unless we can add REFRACTION to our scope of practice, none of us will be able to practice as independents and will lose out to big boxes, chains or the Internet.
    But really an optician who refracts is just an optometrist who specializes in fitting glasses and edge lenses and is up to date on lenses, wouldn't it be easier to go to school to be an optometrist than fight for refraction as an optician?

  13. #63
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    Which means that every patient who goes to dime store and tried on a few pairs of readers and selects one is an optometrist? There is nothing medical about refraction, we are just neutralizing the eye like we do with glasses already. In Canada they are able to refract...its the only way to keep our lovely proffession. Optometrist have

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by eyeguyss View Post
    Which means that every patient who goes to dime store and tried on a few pairs of readers...
    Dimes store? Really? If you know what a "dime" store is, then you probably know how to think as well!
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  15. #65
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    Optometrists have expanded their scope of practice to include tpa's among others,why shouldn't we? All I am saying is in order for us to be accepted into any insurance plan, however little they pay, we need to be able to do a basic refraction. Insurance companies wants to have all services provided under one roof, it saves them tons of money and less paper work.

  16. #66
    Master OptiBoarder rbaker's Avatar
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    Over the years, Optometry has indeed expanded its scope of practice while Opticianry has contracted its scope of practice. Opticians used to be the go-to guys for contact lenses. Opticians used to neutralize lenses to make new glasses. Opticians used to operate independently from MD and OD prescribers. And the scope of practice continues to shrink into that of just another retail clerk.

    Most Opticians today are the Minions and Coneheads of the Corporate Suits and the Insurance Companies. With few exceptions, Opticianry, as a craft, is nearly done. Put a fork in it.

    As far as refracting goes, there is already an overabundance of refractionists running around. The MD's train and employ them by the millions and we will soon see them in the OD's office as they concentrate on other areas of practice. But, independent Optician refracting. Never happen, GI. As history has proven, if you want to sell the glasses you have to control the script.

  17. #67
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    Hello Optiboarders! My first post.. I was sad to read that NC could be losing their license to practice as a licensed optician.I am licensed in NJ, which is one of the most rigid systems, and the fact that more ststes continue to have their licensing boards eliminated proves what was already stated. We are past due for change. 22 licensed states, each with their own testing process, rules, & regs. National credentials such as the ABO & NCSORB... With no uniform state or national guidelines or processes, this is not a surprise.

    Also, think about how many optical organizations exist! I am sure most states, if not all have a board. How many national organizations exist also? OAA, NAO, SAO, etc... I have met lots of these folks in my travels, and they are fantastic! Why have we not considered pooling resources and uniting for a common cause? The answer is most likely because everyone has their hand in the cookie jar, and not one wants to lose their little piece of power or control.

    Unitl we decide as opticians to untie and establish one organization that can serve as a legislative / political / educational entity, we will continue to see states drop off of the licensing list.

    Thought I would add my 2 cents.

  18. #68
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    Blue Jumper establish one organization that can serve as a legislative / political / educational

    Quote Originally Posted by Dbanks View Post


    Unitl we decide as opticians to untie and establish one organization that can serve as a legislative / political / educational entity, we will continue to see states drop off of the licensing list.

    Thought I would add my 2 cents.


    As far as it looks there will soon be one or 2 master organizations that will control the optical market from one end to the other, and it seems that they have set their goal and everybody else's future on it.

    The scene will be set by the 2 major optical corporations, either on their own or fused together. They are well on the way of doing so.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by eyeguyss View Post
    Optometrists have expanded their scope of practice to include tpa's among others,why shouldn't we? All I am saying is in order for us to be accepted into any insurance plan, however little they pay, we need to be able to do a basic refraction. Insurance companies wants to have all services provided under one roof, it saves them tons of money and less paper work.
    All of the vision plans I participate in and know of, require a comprehensive eye health examination in order to bill for any exam service. There are a few medical plans that allow billing for a refraction separately, but most don't actually pay for it, they just allow you to bill for it so you can bill the patient privately...and even if they do, you have to be a Medical provider to be on the plan.

    I suppose things can change, but as it stands now, refractions are not done separate and apart from a comprehensive or at least an intermediate exam service.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Santini View Post
    No, I do not. But license or no, skilled people will still shine.

    B
    Of course you are right, Barry.

    Can you picture, though, if you were out of the picture in your office? What's to keep you from selling your optical to two goofballs with no optical training whatsoever?

    Think of the carnage that would bring. Eventually everyone would leave for greener pastures, but what happens to the visual welfare in between?

    Now multiply this time 50 optical shops in a city.

    Again, the skilled will rise to the top of a more crowded field, but it's the public that will suffer.

    More important than ever to resurrect that "guild optician" thing as a brand, IMO. A license is a guarantee of quality, but if licenses disappear, then you can have a non-governmental seal of approval from the guild.

    Plus it sounds cool.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbaker View Post
    You don't understand but the primary purpose of licensing is to control the number of practitioners (not the quality) in a given State. Back in the day Florida implemented its licensing laws with extreme residency requirements to keep all the retiring opticians out of the State.
    Right. In Florida for sure.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbaker View Post
    I think that this is just a natural adaptation of the business model of all medical practices. Where have all the solo practice physicians gone? How about your good old neighborhood druggists (oops . . . pharmacists?) Remember back in the day when you had to buy all your frames from a local wholesaler? No, you probably don't but that is the good old days that some of us refer to rather than some low level peddler six levels down the chain of command from a decision maker.

    Look, there is just too much financial gain to be made to leave the business of eye care in the hands of a whole bunch of unwashed individual minions. Besides, taking their customers away from them is like taking candy from a baby. The business is now in the hands of just a few corporations; manufacturers, retailers and insurer's who have the ability to change the way that people receive their eye care.

    There are, of course, exceptions to this rule but they will pass into history when their entrepreneur owners tip over and pass on to their eternal reward or Mr. Big Corporation makes them an offer that they cant refuse.
    Gotta agree here, as well.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by fjpod View Post
    Statements like that are usually made by companies (or their representatives) that are trying to sell you some information or product that will "prevent" you from becoming one of the statistics. They want to be your "partner" so the two of you can stick it out together...in which case, you aren't an independent anymore. (Un)fortunately there are too many companies like this in the optical field, although it is not unique to our field.

    True independent practitioners have disappeared in every field from auto mechanics to optical to medicine...so they are probably right when they say there will be a decrease. Online everything is becoming more common. Some have even started "online" or "remote" refractions...ostensibly to bring affordable eyecare to the masses, but in reality to bring profits to the investors.

    So, its all about profits. Barry, correct me if I am wrong, but the company who made this prediction...are they selling something?
    All these good posts...

    In a storm, you want "safe harbor". Most businesses will trade independence for safety. (That's so profound it applies to individual citizens as well.)

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by drk View Post
    ... A license is a guarantee of quality...
    Doc, I heartily agree with you in almost all things - but not this. There is so much variability in dispenser licensure requirements from one state to another, that no sense of parity or homogenity exists in the US. It is folly to continue to state (as so many here do) that licensure somehow affords the public any sense of uniformity in dispensers, or a guarantee of a particular level of quality. It does not. Any more than the ABO does in any of it's guises (levels).

    Of course, the ideal scenario would be some form (ANY form!) of nationally agreed upon and accepted standard for dispensers. And, more than that, a verifiable means to to accurately measure not just knowledge, but performance and skill sets as well to that standard. But as that doesn't exist, we only do ourselves, and our profession a disservice by continuing to imply that the current state to state hodgepodge of wildly different licensures offers any sort of standard of protection to the public in any way resembling national Optometry and Ophthalmology. Wouldn't you agree?

  25. #75
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    During this current atmosphere of deregulation of eyewear sales and the delicensing of opticians in licensed states it makes sense that both independent OD's and optician owned business will field the brunt of the economic side of the tide. It would also be nice to think that the cream will rise to the top and the skilled will shine through the mediocrity. The reality is that this industry is going to lose some extremely talented people well deserving of survival. The consumer is 10 years into it's love affair with internet purchased eyewear and their relationship grows stronger with the passage of time. As long as they can go to the independent who is afraid of saying, " no " because of a bad review or the hopes of gaining a new loyal customer; wowed by their adjustment skills. Today's consumer has learned that they can fill their Rx on line and receive a quality adjustment for free. The consumer has to be reconditioned, just as Pavlov's dogs, that there is a direct correlation of rewards and punishment for behavior. As long as we refuse to recondition our behavior and remain afraid we will be the one's punished for our behavior.
    I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it. Mark Twain

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