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Thread: The end could be near

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    opti-tipster harry a saake's Avatar
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    Confused The end could be near

    Today, sadly, we found out that the nc opticians board, has made the list of five boards to be eliminated, under the nc gear act, which in a nutshell says people are being deprived of the right to work in occupational services, so we will eliminate the license. yeh, that's what we need more people who don,t know what they are doing in the business.

    NC opticians, you need to start today, contacting your reps and senators, because you know what the alternative is. also join NCOA

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    This is important, Harry. Please folks, call your local representatives, and tell them to support the bill currently in the General Assembly sponsored by Senators Curtis and others to keep our license in place. Once this is over, then we will talk about the future of NC Opticians. The NCOA was a part of the problem here. If they had not fought their own state board for the last several years, the board could have raised fees, and been on solid ground. But the leadership of NCOA, most who have been in place for decades, spent thousands of members dollars, and made the state board do the same. This did not need to happen and is the reason we are in this mess. Personalities.....probably on both sides, wanted to be in control. Who suffers? The poor Optician, as usual. The NCOA has done good things, and are necessary for our advancement, but did you know that only about 25% of the Opticians in the state now belong? And even with the significant growth they talked about in their email today, it is still less than 30%. Some changes need to take place there, as well. Lets get this bill through, and then lets work to improve the NCOA. New blood is clearly needed in leadership positions.
    Last edited by wmcdonald; 05-08-2015 at 04:55 PM.

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter rdcoach5's Avatar
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    do contact your congress person and complain about this bill. A similar bill was defeated in Ohio by just such a campaign.

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    This is ridiculous. The license requirements only benefit Optometrists by limiting experienced optical professionals from entering the market on their own unless they can pass several tests and obtain a degree. Most occupations with the same earning potential do not have such stringent requirements. And being in a moderate to low salary occupation, most people who would become an optician cannot afford the tuition and fees associated with getting a license.

    It's a skilled trade that can be learned through hands-on experience and shouldn't be so heavily regulated. Beyond all of this, being licensed does no mean you will be earning more income. There have been several articles and research done on licensed vs non licensed opticians, and a license does not equate to a higher salary. License requirements just limits those with hands on knowledge from entering the workforce and benefits optometrists. Sorry, but it's true.

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    Although you are entitled to your opinion, it is unfortunate to hear your remarks. Licensing benefits the opticians, the public, and the men and women they work for. Gone are the days of apprenticeship were someone interested can learn from a skilled season professional; the many aspects of our occupation. Those men and women are rare and the opportunities that once existed for a young apprentice to learn from the ground up are far and few between. Your second sentence makes no sense, a professional follows a set of standards in education and training that prepares an individual in said profession. The education and training is what prepares one to sit before a board. If you want to cut hair, most states require you to have training and education along with a license. If you can't do the work that is required to obtain a license in a given field, perhaps you don't belong in it. As to the research regarding salaries, I guarantee that I make more than an ABO certified optical employee in my state.
    I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it. Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Smith LDO View Post
    a professional follows a set of standards in education and training that prepares an individual in said profession. The education and training is what prepares one to sit before a board.
    This is part of my point. There are no universal standards for opticians. But do I think an optician in California with 15 years experience is less qualified than a licensed optician in New York? Absolutely not. However, the optician in New York had to shell out cash to go to school and be able to take the ABO as well as practical exams. That same optician also has an investment in defending license requirements since they jumped through those hoops.

    As far as being a professional following a set of standards, a mechanic can be a professional mechanic without being a licensed mechanic, and they can do this without any formal training. It doesn't mean they are less skilled. It means they took a different path. It's up to the consumer to make informed decisions on the services they use. The State should not limit employment opportunities, especially in this economy, from skilled workers just because they didn't she'll out cash to obtain a piece of paper for skilled TRADE professions. It's not like opticians are doctors. They are not diagnosing anyone. They are dispensing glasses and fitting frames.

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    opti-tipster harry a saake's Avatar
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    eeopti, your in optical wholesale and this is the way you talk about a lot of the people who support your business, if not most

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    Quote Originally Posted by eeopti View Post
    This is part of my point. There are no universal standards for opticians. But do I think an optician in California with 15 years experience is less qualified than a licensed optician in New York? Absolutely not. However, the optician in New York had to shell out cash to go to school and be able to take the ABO as well as practical exams. That same optician also has an investment in defending license requirements since they jumped through those hoops.

    As far as being a professional following a set of standards, a mechanic can be a professional mechanic without being a licensed mechanic, and they can do this without any formal training. It doesn't mean they are less skilled. It means they took a different path. It's up to the consumer to make informed decisions on the services they use. The State should not limit employment opportunities, especially in this economy, from skilled workers just because they didn't she'll out cash to obtain a piece of paper for skilled TRADE professions. It's not like opticians are doctors. They are not diagnosing anyone. They are dispensing glasses and fitting frames.
    You have absolutely no idea what NY Opticians have to do. If you knew a great deal, you would have already known the requirements prior to moving to NY! Opticians in California do not fit Contact Lenses, most do not have degrees in Opticianry, as those in NY do, and quite frankly, I have lectured to both groups countless times. The NY Opticians are well prepared, and know optics well beyond what I have seen in California. You should be holding NY up as an example, not trying to dumb them down to fit your personal needs. Now look at the curriculum in most of the schools in NY. Compare what they must know to what you know, and if you are honest with yourself, the difference will be clear. Again, most Opticians only know what they have been trained to know, and have no idea what they are missing!



    Trades and professions are two different things......at least in the real world. The left coast must be different? You know, you can always go back if you do not like it in NY, and my Yankee brethren would probably appreciate it.
    Last edited by wmcdonald; 05-08-2015 at 08:47 PM.

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    I actually have a lot of experience in retail dispensing and come from a family of opticians who feel the same way. In fact, my sister works for an optometrists and has 15 years experience dispensing in a non licensed state but currently works in a licensed state. She doesn't have the time to go through the educational program required to become licensed but wants to open an optical retail store and can't due to the license requirements. It seems like the only person bennifiting here is the optometrist.
    I understand most of my work comes from optometrists, but think of the possibilities if opticians were more freely allowed to be owners within their own trade! I do not feel like I'm talking bad about anyone. Honestly, I don't. I'm simply acknowledging a discrepancy in licensing requirements among skilled trades (mechanics for example), and the effects it has on employment opportunities. I haven't even touched on the bennifits for consumers. However, I do see how this could be hard to swallow for someone who has gone through formal training or for an optometrist who has the potential of losing profit.

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    WMCDONALD, Opticians in CA do fit contacts. Now, whether they are supposed to or not is another story. But this just exemplifies my point about a lack of consistent standards in a skilled trade profession. I'm not saying opticians are not professionals. I am saying that even without a license they can have a full and complete understanding of their trade. I'm also saying that it is unreasonable to have such strict requirements to become licensed within a trade that is low to moderatly salaried. I'm not trying to "dumb down NY." I'm looking at a larger picture.
    As for your personal attacks on me, that was not the behavior I would expect from a "professional." I'm simply trying to discuss another view point. You can either think on it or dismiss it.

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    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    Licensing is indeed a barrier but it also elevates. If everyone can be an optician, no one is an optician.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drk View Post
    Licensing is indeed a barrier but it also elevates. If everyone can be an optician, no one is an optician.
    Does this mean only licensed mechanics are mechanics? Is someone who has 15 years experience in human resources less qualified than someone who has an MBA in HR and no experience? Is the experienced HR person not an HR professional? The limits and requirements placed on opticians far outweighs other professions. I'm not saying the license is useless. I'm just wondering the value in the barrier it places.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eeopti View Post
    She doesn't have the time to go through the educational program required to become licensed but wants to open an optical retail store and can't due to the license requirements.
    Ok...I've read enough.
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    Master OptiBoarder rbaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harry a saake View Post
    Today, sadly, we found out that the nc opticians board, has made the list of five boards to be eliminated, under the nc gear act, which in a nutshell says people are being deprived of the right to work in occupational services, so we will eliminate the license. yeh, that's what we need more people who don,t know what they are doing in the business.

    NC opticians, you need to start today, contacting your reps and senators, because you know what the alternative is. also join NCOA
    Is this similar to the "Sunset Laws" that seemed to be in vogue 10 - 15 years ago in many States?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johns View Post
    Ok...I've read enough.
    You're taking one small portion of a much larger picture to minimize the overall message.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johns View Post
    Ok...I've read enough.
    me as well. if you're competent in your given profession, any educational or certification barrier should be a walk in the park.

    all the decent lab techs I've worked with and have trained breezed through the abo. same for all the opticians I'ved worked with.

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    Blue Jumper sunset provision or clause is a measure within a statute ..............

    Quote Originally Posted by rbaker View Post

    Is this similar to the "Sunset Laws" that seemed to be in vogue 10 - 15 years ago in many States?

    In public policy, a sunset provision or clause is a measure within a statute, regulation or other law that provides that the law shall cease to have effect after a specific date, unless further legislative action is taken to extend the law. Most laws do not have sunset clauses and therefore remain in force indefinitely, except under systems in which desuetude applies.

    see at =====> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunset_provision

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    Quote Originally Posted by ml43 View Post
    me as well. if you're competent in your given profession, any educational or certification barrier should be a walk in the park.

    all the decent lab techs I've worked with and have trained breezed through the abo. same for all the opticians I'ved worked with.
    It's far more than just the ABO. if that were the case it wouldn't be an issue. The requirements call for two years of school from one of three schools in the entire State. A passing score on a State practical given in one location in the entire State. In addition to the ABO. The tests are not an issue. It's dedicating 2 years to move closer to one of the 3 schools. She would also have to quit her job to do so. This is absurd for such a moderately paying profession.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eeopti View Post
    It's far more than just the ABO. if that were the case it wouldn't be an issue. The requirements call for two years of school from one of three schools in the entire State. A passing score on a State practical given in one location in the entire State. In addition to the ABO. The tests are not an issue. It's dedicating 2 years to move closer to one of the 3 schools. She would also have to quit her job to do so. This is absurd for such a moderately paying profession.
    last time I checked, opticians make a decent wage in NY, or any licensed state for that matter.

    its only a moderately paying profession if you sell yourself short, and/or are unwilling to get licensed/educated.

    same could be said for almost any profession.

    there have been a few topics about optician pay.

    I know me and Warren(WMcDonald) have had a few stabs at each other about optician pay.

    However,
    I see no reason why an optician in any state couldn't rival an OD's salary,
    All depends on how much responsibility you are willing to take on, how much experience you have, and how much of that experience you can apply and leverage to make the most money for yourself and/or your employer.


    I've met and worked with more than a handful of opticians that can boost gross revenue 200-300%, and at the same time improve quality, customer service, and minimize monthly expenses.


    If you can do this, and are willing to settle for "moderate" pay, that's on you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ml43 View Post
    last time I checked, opticians make a decent wage in NY, or any licensed state for that matter.

    its only a moderately paying profession if you sell yourself short, and/or are unwilling to get licensed/educated.

    same could be said for almost any profession.

    there have been a few topics about optician pay.

    I know me and Warren(WMcDonald) have had a few stabs at each other about optician pay.

    However,
    I see no reason why an optician in any state couldn't rival an OD's salary,
    All depends on how much responsibility you are willing to take on, how much experience you have, and how much of that experience you can apply and leverage to make the most money for yourself and/or your employer.


    I've met and worked with more than a handful of opticians that can boost gross revenue 200-300%, and at the same time improve quality, customer service, and minimize monthly expenses.


    If you can do this, and are willing to settle for "moderate" pay, that's on you.
    The skill set you are talking about now has little to do with the education one would receive from a 2 year program, or by taking the ABO. An optician with 15 years experience, without a license, can still do what you are describing, which has more to do with business savvy. You are missing my point entirely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eeopti View Post
    The skill set you are talking about now has little to do with the education one would receive from a 2 year program, or by taking the ABO. An optician with 15 years experience, without a license, can still do what you are describing, which has more to do with business savvy. You are missing my point entirely.
    Correct, most schools don't teach experience.
    Correct, you can do what I describe without a license or an abo cerification.

    I understand your point.

    Instead of explain it, I'll give you a few perspective questions.

    would you go to see a physician who wasn't state licensed?

    would you hire an optometrist who wasn't state licensed?

    edit:
    I just reread a few of your previous posts.

    I believe you misunderstand that most licensed states do have standards of what a licensed optician is supposed to be capable of doing. Especially the ones that require associates degrees. It's a lot more than just dispensing and adjusting glasses.

    If you come from california, I understand why you feel the way you do about licensing.
    Dispensing opticians in california in general are treated like waiters, by both the public and others in healthcare.

    I apologize for putting this thread on a tangent, but if we have people in industry against licensure.
    I can only imagine how it will play with the public and politicians.
    Last edited by ml43; 05-09-2015 at 06:05 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eeopti View Post
    It's far more than just the ABO. if that were the case it wouldn't be an issue. The requirements call for two years of school from one of three schools in the entire State. A passing score on a State practical given in one location in the entire State. In addition to the ABO. The tests are not an issue. It's dedicating 2 years to move closer to one of the 3 schools. She would also have to quit her job to do so. This is absurd for such a moderately paying profession.
    I took (a paltry) two years, moved 5 states away, and went to a two year college. Because of that, I am making more than any of the 14 ODs that work with me now. I know of many other opticians doing the same, both from licensed and non-licensed states. The common denominator is that they all went well beyond the minimum requirements, and positioned themselves to where they could command what they are worth. No offense, but if someone told me they didn't "have the time" to advance themselves, that would be the end of the interview.
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    To try to get this thread back on track, I'd like to mention that Ohio is still under assault from many entities that want to take away our opticianry licenses. Attitudes such as those expressed in this thread continue to numb the public's awareness of exactly how technical opticianry is. No, you shouldn't need a license to bend frames, even if you're bending them on purpose, but this thread just illustrates the vast differences between frame benders, and opticians.

    I would suggest that not only should N. Carolina opticians be writing Senator Curtis and others, but we ALL should be. Most politicians don't aspire to remain where they are, but rather, they continually eye the next office, and they can't get there without our vote. And don't stop there; establish a relationship with your local state representatives NOW, before you need to go to them. Your voice will be much louder if they recognize it. Meet them for lunch (they love to meet their constituents), talk to them about unrelated issues that affect you to show them you are not single minded,

    Finally, Ohio was saved (for the time being), by political action money, some from our national organization which so many opticians love to hate. Without that, we would be in a different state of affairs now. Our fight is far from over, and in fact was just a small battle of many that I see on the horizon. N. Carolina, Florida, and Ohio are not unique; opticianry is under attack in every state, and it is being funded by corporations who (yes they are people) are intent on paying you less, and putting the difference on their bottom line. If you've never supported your state association, support them now. Contribute to their PAC funds, and attend their seminars. They are our last line of defense.
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    Quote Originally Posted by eeopti View Post
    WMCDONALD, Opticians in CA do fit contacts. Now, whether they are supposed to or not is another story. But this just exemplifies my point about a lack of consistent standards in a skilled trade profession. I'm not saying opticians are not professionals. I am saying that even without a license they can have a full and complete understanding of their trade. I'm also saying that it is unreasonable to have such strict requirements to become licensed within a trade that is low to moderatly salaried. I'm not trying to "dumb down NY." I'm looking at a larger picture.
    As for your personal attacks on me, that was not the behavior I would expect from a "professional." I'm simply trying to discuss another view point. You can either think on it or dismiss it.
    I dismissed it when you presented your initial points, but it is you who is attacking a great group of Opticians in NY. If you don't like the rules there, go back home. The road is the same distance both ways. And know that experience does not equate directly to knowledge and understanding. Doing something for 15.....or 50 years does not make you competent. Again, most Opticians have NO IDEA what they do not know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johns View Post
    To try to get this thread back on track, I'd like to mention that Ohio is still under assault from many entities that want to take away our opticianry licenses. Attitudes such as those expressed in this thread continue to numb the public's awareness of exactly how technical opticianry is. No, you shouldn't need a license to bend frames, even if you're bending them on purpose, but this thread just illustrates the vast differences between frame benders, and opticians.

    I would suggest that not only should N. Carolina opticians be writing Senator Curtis and others, but we ALL should be. Most politicians don't aspire to remain where they are, but rather, they continually eye the next office, and they can't get there without our vote. And don't stop there; establish a relationship with your local state representatives NOW, before you need to go to them. Your voice will be much louder if they recognize it. Meet them for lunch (they love to meet their constituents), talk to them about unrelated issues that affect you to show them you are not single minded,

    Finally, Ohio was saved (for the time being), by political action money, some from our national organization which so many opticians love to hate. Without that, we would be in a different state of affairs now. Our fight is far from over, and in fact was just a small battle of many that I see on the horizon. N. Carolina, Florida, and Ohio are not unique; opticianry is under attack in every state, and it is being funded by corporations who (yes they are people) are intent on paying you less, and putting the difference on their bottom line. If you've never supported your state association, support them now. Contribute to their PAC funds, and attend their seminars. They are our last line of defense.
    Exactly, John. But it is so much easier to dumb things down for our own selfish reasons than to build things up. Opticians are our own worst enemies sometimes, but it is not their fault, really. Leadership, or the lack thereof from the past, had NO vision of what could be, and that continues through today.

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