Questions about God

[Maria]

Since the religion debate seems to be on.........

1)If God made us, including character and personality, and he already knows everything that we will do, then

a) Why did he make some people pre-disposed to religion and some not?

b) Why do (some of) the religious people try to convert the non-religious people? (Surely this goes against God's will, since he made the non-religious people that way)

c) Doesn't it all just mean that we are essentially, in God's mind, characters in a book he wrote? What I mean by that is, he created us, decided what we will do and when we will do it, and is now sat there being utterly unsurprised by it all.

d) Why did he make Hell, and decide to send some of us (i.e. me!) there?

2) How come he made a huge universe, and put us on our own in one tiny corner? Are we alone?

3) Why do unchristened babies go to Limbo? Since they have not been offered the option of belief (and given that babies believe in Santa, the Easter Bunny, and pretty much anything on offer, they'd be a given) how is that fair? Are the babies just a sacrifice to Original Sin, which God invented?

All the best answers will receive my patented 'Get To Heaven Without Having To Be Good Or Go To Church' theory, which left Pete Hanlin shocked when I explained it to him :)

(BTW, I don't do the He thing, so there is no need to correct me on it. You know who you are )

[Cindy Hamlin]

Maria said:
Since the religion debate seems to be on.........

1)If God made us, including character and personality, and he already knows everything that we will do, then

a) Why did he make some people pre-disposed to religion and some not?

God didn't make anyone pre-disposed to religion. He made all of us in his image and likeness (we won't even go there!) and gave us all the free will to choose whom to follow.

b) Why do (some of) the religious people try to convert the non-religious people? (Surely this goes against God's will, since he made the non-religious people that way)

See answer one.

c) Doesn't it all just mean that we are essentially, in God's mind, characters in a book he wrote? What I mean by that is, he created us, decided what we will do and when we will do it, and is now sat there being utterly unsurprised by it all.

See answer one.

) d. Why did he make Hell, and decide to send some of us (i.e. me!) there?

Hell is for the people that choose to go there. Since he gives us a choice to follow Him, He has to have an alternative.

2) How come he made a huge universe, and put us on our own in one tiny corner? Are we alone?

I don't think we are alone. I think it is very egocentric of us to think that! I prefer to think that we are the only planet that got it right!

3) Why do unchristened babies go to Limbo? Since they have not been offered the option of belief (and given that babies believe in Santa, the Easter Bunny, and pretty much anything on offer, they'd be a given) how is that fair? Are the babies just a sacrifice to Original Sin, which God invented?

Maria, being born and raised Catholic, but have since changed, limbo is a Catholic term. I believe there is a special place in Heaven for babies because they are the purest of us all. I heard something once that a baby is most like God and as we grow we lose those attributes. Sad, but true!

All the best answers will receive my patented 'Get To Heaven Without Having To Be Good Or Go To Church' theory, which left Pete Hanlin shocked when I explained it to him :)

(BTW, I don't do the He thing, so there is no need to correct me on it. You know who you are )

I don't attest to being a Bible scholar, but have read and studied it and this is the interpretation I have come to accept.

[Maria]

(This bit is for Cindy)
Explain to me the bit about 'made us in his own image' :)

In what way? Physically? In our abilities compared to other animals? Mentally?

Why did he make us in his own image?

As far as Hell goes, since he knows how it all turns out, why make the people that end up there? To make the Heaven-bound feel better?

(this bit is just a general rant now)
And why did Jesus have to die for our sins? If someone annoyed my dad, and he decided that he'd forgive them if they murdered me, then he'd get sent to prison. He didn't SACRIFICE his son, since Jesus returned to Heaven on his death, he merely tortured him. Sacrifice to whom, exactly? Himself? It's a good thing for God that Amnesty International weren't around 2000 years ago. He'd be in the European Court Of Human Rights quicker than you could say "What have the Romans ever done for us?" :)

[Jo]

Maria said:
Since the religion debate seems to be on.........

1)If God made us, including character and personality, and he already knows everything that we will do, then

a) Why did he make some people pre-disposed to religion and some not?

b) Why do (some of) the religious people try to convert the non-religious people? (Surely this goes against God's will, since he made the non-religious people that way)

c) Doesn't it all just mean that we are essentially, in God's mind, characters in a book he wrote? What I mean by that is, he created us, decided what we will do and when we will do it, and is now sat there being utterly unsurprised by it all.

d) Why did he make Hell, and decide to send some of us (i.e. me!) there?

I think the answer to most of your questions in #1 is that humans are extremely arrogant. #1c, if God is not surprised it is because humans are also predictable. History repeats itself.

2) How come he made a huge universe, and put us on our own in one tiny corner? Are we alone?

Welcome to the asylum! "Now I want that television set turned on, right now!!"

[chip anderson]

Maria:

Far be it from me to explain the Mind of God, but I feel that in his own image means: A being able to reason and make his own decisions. Not a predestined robot that looks like God. As to why Hell, those who will no follow God for the carrot (Heaven) may respond from fear of Hell. Simple enough?

I fear for you that you choose not to believe in God, what if you are wrong? I you follow God and he does not exist, the worst you are out is you have lived a good, honorable, decent life. If you do not follow God and he does exist, Hell is not a nice place to be and forever is a very long time.

Chip

[Pete Hanlin]

You don't have to be good to go to heaven (else no one, myself certainly included, would ever get there). There was only one who was good, and He came to tell us about God and why we should live good lives (because, in the long run, living the way God wants us to results in a life that is truly happier- which is, btw, borne out by observation and experience). He was killed, because most people didn't want to listen to Him (much like the church of old killed astronomers who tried to tell them the earth revolved around the sun... people don't like to hear things that shatter their own comfortable beliefs).

You don't have to go to church to go to heaven (and if you did, it wouldn't require four walls and a pipe organ). Church is a place to worship God, and that can be done just as easy (and easier for some) in the mountains, beside your bed, or in your car on the way to work as it can be done in any decorated building.

What do you have to do? Love God and love your neighbor (i.e., forgive them as God forgives you). The rest is all theological fluff. (Mt. 24)

[God]

To all of you wonderful people,

I thought I'd drop by and just say a couple of things.

First to Pete Hanlin. You do have to be good to get into heaven but good is a relative term and you must all find out what that means on your own. I do like your definition of why people follow the word and attempt to stay on the straight and narrow. No, I won't tell any of you if you will or won't make it to heaven so stop thinking of asking that question! Those that will will and those that won't won't. Accept that as your answer.

Also, church is not for worshipping Me although that is done in church. Church is for unity and fellowship. It's togetherness and understanding, it's acceptance and spiritual living. A rebirth as so many like to call it. It's what is in ones self that gives it strength. But religion, Jesus reserection of religion and community worship are merely stepping stones to the reality that is yours. Believe what you will for at the end your beliefs will yield your truth. Try that one on for size.

To Maria,

You ask the questions that you will answer yourself one day. Don't look to others for the answers for the answers are in you and you will find them whatever they may be. You want someone to justify their reasons for believing when believing is enough for some without justification just as not believing is justification for others. There is no definitive answer from one to another which is why I say it's in you and not in them to give to you. Live it, whatever it is to you. In truth you're looking for an answer that will never come until you yourself answer the question.

Love to all,

God

[EyeManFla]

If I remember correctly, God created man in His image and likeness....a being capable of thought and reasoning.

Man was also created with free will.....the ability to decide from right and wrong.

If God created us knowing every thing we would ever do and say, well, how boring!

[Cindy Hamlin]

Maria said:
(This bit is for Cindy)
Explain to me the bit about 'made us in his own image' :)

In what way? Physically? In our abilities compared to other animals? Mentally?

Why did he make us in his own image?

As far as Hell goes, since he knows how it all turns out, why make the people that end up there? To make the Heaven-bound feel better?

(this bit is just a general rant now)
And why did Jesus have to die for our sins? If someone annoyed my dad, and he decided that he'd forgive them if they murdered me, then he'd get sent to prison. He didn't SACRIFICE his son, since Jesus returned to Heaven on his death, he merely tortured him. Sacrifice to whom, exactly? Himself? It's a good thing for God that Amnesty International weren't around 2000 years ago. He'd be in the European Court Of Human Rights quicker than you could say "What have the Romans ever done for us?" :)

Maria,
Concerning the image thing, I agree with all the responses typed thus far. I also agree wholeheartedly with the church remarks.

[John R]

God said:
To all of you wonderful people,

I thought I'd drop by and just say a couple of things.
Love to all,

God

OK...We all know GOD can't come from such as crass place as texas. :finger: ..

As the Captain once said God have mercy on us....
and keep the posts short...

[chip anderson]

Not too sure of Pete's answer. If you will read the last few pages of the Bible you will find: "He shall judge what you have done.:

It does not say; " What you believed." "What you thought." "Or that you will receive the gifts that were promised at birth." It says: "What you have done." And I think this means what you have done for your fellow man, not the donations or the building you have built. It also says that those who are found unworth will be cast into the pit of fire which has been made ready for the devil and his angels. This implies that not all angels are good and that only God will decide who goes where. You cannot be claimed by the devil only delivered to him by God.


Look out!

Chip

And yes I know that this disagrees with most of the good Methodist theologians (I am Methodist) that I know. As far as know I am the only one in my church that believes his sins thus far have guaranteed that he will not go to heaven.

[Night Train]

Maria said:

Explain to me the bit about 'made us in his own image' :)

In what way? Physically? In our abilities compared to other animals? Mentally?

Why did he make us in his own image?

I was just talking about this to someone. I was noting how Creative we humans can be and that maybe in our creativity, we are most like God. I also noted that we humans do not just create and then sit back. We are consatantly creating and being involved with our creation. For instance, a song writer doesnt just write one song and then sit back and see what happens. He works with the song and he writes more songs. I think in the same way, God didnt just "Poof" the earth into existance and then sit back to see what would happen. I think he is Intimately involved on many levels. Tapping into that Intimacy is the start to knowing the answers to Marias Questions.

[Cindy Hamlin]

Night Train said:
I think he is Intimately involved on many levels. Tapping into that Intimacey is the start to knowing the answers to Marias Questions.

Night Train,
That is a phenomenal response!

We need an angel smiley for our Godly threads. 0:)

[Pete Hanlin]

Not too sure of Pete's answer. If you will read the last few pages of the Bible you will find: "He shall judge what you have done. It does not say; " What you believed." "What you thought." "Or that you will receive the gifts that were promised at birth." It says: "What you have done."
There are many passages of Scripture which indicate that faith, not one's works, is the establishing factor for a relationship with God. Perhaps the best known comes from Romans 3...
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a apropitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness- that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Of course, James states that "faith without works is dead," and that is true as well. "When your beliefs change, your actions will follow" is an axiom from a decidedly non-divinely inspired writing entitled Who Moved My Cheese?, but it holds true for faith as well. You cannot have faith in God yet act completely contrary to that faith- just as a fig tree has no choice but to bear figs.

What we do (our works), however, will never be sufficient to change who we are (aka justification). Only God can accomplish that, and He does so through faith (Abraham was justified through his faith, not through the action of circumcision). After justification, comes the process of bringing your actions into line with God's will (aka sanctification). The Holy Spirit assists with this by changing your nature from one bent towards yourself to one bent towards following God. Finally, only when we have reached Heaven (aka glorification) will we attain a life where we do not sin, hate, covet, strive, and otherwise sin.