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Thread: Why do Independants still support Essilor?

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    Why do Independants still support Essilor?

    I am still amazed when I speak with my colleagues as to how many still purchase from Essilor. Do they not realize that Essilor/Nikon is their major competitor????? Besides Coastal, there is Walmart and Costco.Why should I give money every month to a company that is trying to take away my patients For years I have only supported an independent lab. . I receive great prices, service quality and designs.

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    You would not believe the number of Canada accounts that Big has. Some of the most important companies in Canada do business with them. Many of the Optiboarders who have accounts with them...read these comments....and still shovel money to them. The big question is why. Is it the old National Optical system of equipment for lab work. Is it guarenteed lab orders for preferential pricing....is it something else.

    Why would we deal with M now that they have an agreement with FYI. Face it, the little independents ar being squeezed out by the large chain store powers. The indy 10-15 jobs a week VS a chain store group of hundreds of orders per DAY says it all.

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    We're an independent and we're new (6 months on the 24th) and we chose not to use Lux or E or M or S or buying groups. It's been pretty wonderful. Had only one person ask if we used Crizal coatings. It's not like they were brand loyal to E but it was the only one they had heard of. As to why a lot of places still use these companies I personally can't think of one good reason.

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    Redhot Jumper Do they not realize that Essilor/Nikon is their major competitor?????

    Quote Originally Posted by qualitylenses View Post

    I am still amazed when I speak with my colleagues as to how many still purchase from Essilor. Do they not realize that Essilor/Nikon is their major competitor????? Besides Coastal, there is Walmart and Costco.Why should I give money every month to a company that is trying to take away my patients
    Essilor is today the most aggressive optical corporation. Already 50 years ago they would not take one step without calculating to the point if they could take the step and at what risk. They only employ top rated people in important positions.

    Their advertising department is a scientific operation where every impact is studied and calculated before going public.

    They have realized that if they can sell directly to the public they can multiply their profits, which is better than act just as a distributor and wholesaler to the optical retail trade. So far they have proven this point by now having over 14 on-line websites in the optical retail business.

    The public is now asking to get Essilor products due to its public advertising and your colleagues find it easier to just supply it, than to convince customers of something similar made by somebody else.

    What retailers do not realize is that on-line glasses are not a finished,
    checked and adjusted product. More than often the optometrist or optician is asked to do that job for the the consumer at little or no charge.

    Opticians and Optometrists will have to change their retailing habits from their gross profit included in their selling price to a competitive one and charge separately for the services they provide.
    Chris Ryser
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    http://optochemicals.com............................. http://arcoatings.com

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    Independents can access great products at much better prices than what the cartel offers locally. The web cuts both ways, it empowers consumers on one hand, but enables small independents to access globally too.

    E seems to be doing fine without my business (their stock price is very high) and I am doing fine without their products (so are my clients).

    Despite our very small size, I feel we have plenty of buying power and compete very well against big box and the internets. We bundle, we offer a strategic array of products/services and price-points to try to satisfy the widest audience possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    Essilor is today the most aggressive optical corporation. Already 50 years ago they would not take one step without calculating to the point if they could take the step and at what risk. They only employ top rated people in important positions.

    Their advertising department is a scientific operation where every impact is studied and calculated before going public.

    They have realized that if they can sell directly to the public they can multiply their profits, which is better than act just as a distributor and wholesaler to the optical retail trade. So far they have proven this point by now having over 14 on-line websites in the optical retail business.

    The public is now asking to get Essilor products due to its public advertising and your colleagues find it easier to just supply it, than to convince customers of something similar made by somebody else.

    What retailers do not realize is that on-line glasses are not a finished,
    checked and adjusted product. More than often the optometrist or optician is asked to do that job for the the consumer at little or no charge.

    Opticians and Optometrists will have to change their retailing habits from their gross profit included in their selling price to a competitive one and charge separately for the services they provide.
    Good post Chris. To add my two cents;

    Like them or not, they are a corporation with a crystal clear view of their business plan and direction in the marketplace to maximize the return for their shareholders. The old saying 'change is inevitable' couldn't be more true.

    The issue that some independents have (the ones that complain) is they've never kept pace with the times, never aligned with any major suppliers nor ever spent a single dollar with a professional consultant to evaluate their practice to ensure they're doing things efficiently, cost effectively, while planning for the future.

    Then one day you wake up and realize you have lost years and vast marketshare and now continue to struggle daily to make ends meet. Doing the same things day in and day out and thinking you will keep pace or stay ahead of the curve is utter insanity.

    Gotta spend money to make money. It's a never ending process to stay alive and thrive in any industry.

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    ^^^^^We need a like button^^^^^

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    Redhot Jumper When shopping for glasses, don’t worry about the brand...............................

    I found this following article on the web and would like to say that these types of independent publications are becoming more popular and should make opticians think about the future of their profession.
    ------------------------------------------------------

    Home
    » Best of, Lifehack & GTD

    How to Buy Quality Eye Glasses Online & Save Hundreds


    Last updated by G.E. Miller on November 25, 2014


    How to Buy Glasses Online

    My employer has a rather generous vision plan that covers $155 towards new eyeglass frames and 100% of the lenses through insurance provider VSP. With the new insurance, I was thinking I might actually be able to get away with simply paying the co-pay of $25. I was so excited! I may actually get to try on some glasses, in person, and see what they’d look like on my face. Wow, what a privilege!

    My excitement quickly faded before my appointment as I started trying on glasses and looking at the little price tags on each of them. $300, $350, $400… things were not looking good.

    Sure, there were a few cheap, outdated frames that I could get for around $200, but the quality of these frames were not even close to being as good as the quality of the frameless memory titanium, anti-reflective coated glasses that I had purchased online about 3 years earlier for under $40. Equivalent glasses were actually 10 times more at the local optometrist!


    What You’ll Need to Buy Glasses Online

    If you’re running into the same issues (and you will when you visit your local optometrist), here’s how you can go about buying your glasses online:
    1. You’ll Need your Eyeglass Prescription

    If your old eyeglass prescription is still bring clear vision in your present lenses, then call up your optometrist to get your prescription. Note that you will not be able to use a contact lens prescription (the two are different). If your prescription is outdated, then you will have to go to an optometrist to get a new one. General eye exams are usually covered by your vision insurance, if you have one. Check with your vision insurance provider to be certain.


    2. You’ll Need your Pupillary Distance

    Pupillary Distance (PD) is the distance between your pupils, usually measured in millimeters. Pupillary distance generally falls between 54 and 68 mm. Optometrists will usually take this measurement during your exam, but if they don’t, then you can measure the distance yourself with a mirror and a ruler.
    Most optometrists will not write this number on your prescription, because they know that it gives you the ability to shop online. Ask them to write this number in, if they haven’t.
    The image below represents an example of a pupillary distance of 62mm.




    3. Be Careful of Add-Ons

    Eyeglass retailers online will often suck you in with extremely low advertised prices (i.e. ‘Complete set of glasses for only $9!’, however they have add-ons that really crank up the price – anti-reflective coating, anti-scratch, poly-carbonate lens, etc.
    The best thing to do is to figure out exactly what you want, and then find out what 3 or 4 different online retailers would sell for that exact same model, so that you are comparing apples to apples. For instance, if you know you want a memory titanium frame with a slight tint and anti-reflective coating then shop around for that exact same pair elsewhere. Some include the add-ons and others don’t, so go with the final price, not the advertised price that gets you in.


    4. Shopping for Glasses Online? You Need to Really Look Around for the Best Deal!


    When shopping for glasses, don’t worry about the brand. A pair that I purchased under a generic brand was much better than any of the designer comparables that I saw at the optometrist. There are a few retailers that seem to have extremely competitive prices, that I’d recommend comparing to the others:


    Buying Glasses Discussion:


    • Have you bought glasses online? Share your story and tips.
    • If you’re afraid to buy glasses online, why?
    • Where did you find the best pair of cheap glasses?




    see all of it: ------> http://20somethingfinance.com/how-to...save-hundreds/
    Chris Ryser
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    DLO. NA.IC.I.T.PO

    http://optochemicals.com............................. http://arcoatings.com

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    #1 It is a unfair fight. Onliners have the ability to sell world wide under none or very few restrictions, while licenced ECP's are handcuffed by regulatory rulings that prohibit online sales. Even using virtual try on...Pd / seg height image measureing...on your website does not allow you to sell online. You must meet the client face-to-face and make the frame adjustments. YET as Chris pointed out 80 % of eyeglasses are miss fitted. Where is the relationship between face-to-face with a client and not seeing him again for 3 years. All the while his glasses are 80% mis-adjusted.

    # 2 BC is de-regulated....about 1/2 of the US states are non-licensed....eyeglass onliners multiply daily....BigE /CC beats the Quebec Order against onliners....
    and on and on. It's coming apart at the seams folks and the big corps are making it happen.

    # 3 Yes, Big E does not care about my not buying from them. They are making hand over fist profits everywhere else, so that acutally I am more of a PROBLEM for them than an adavntage.

    # 4 And truly, explain to me the difference between and $1800.00 pair of Prada (injected moulded frames) eyeglasses with 1.67 / trans / Seiko FF Hd Surmount / Oleophobic AR coating (bought at an ECP office) and my pair at $ 550.00 with a generic plastic acetate frame ...1.67 / trans / Comfort FF HD / with ETC-AR coating. This is an actual case that came to my office. Her Prada frame temples had all blistered at the back of her ear. The ECP said it was caused by her hair dye and no guarantee ($300.00 for new temples) . Mine fully guarenteed for one year. She asked me for a quote on a new pair and was devestated that she had paid so much.

    This type of issue #4 is what is causing the public to look upon ECP's a legal thieves. They see high prices in our stores, low prices online. They see TV/newspaper/magazine/internet articles that suggest...NO PUSH ...people to go online for their eyeglasses.

    Are we the thieves and the onliners the reality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by coupe View Post
    #1 It is a unfair fight. Onliners have the ability to sell world wide under none or very few restrictions, while licenced ECP's are handcuffed by regulatory rulings that prohibit online sales. Even using virtual try on...Pd / seg height image measureing...on your website does not allow you to sell online. You must meet the client face-to-face and make the frame adjustments. YET as Chris pointed out 80 % of eyeglasses are miss fitted. Where is the relationship between face-to-face with a client and not seeing him again for 3 years. All the while his glasses are 80% mis-adjusted.

    # 2 BC is de-regulated....about 1/2 of the US states are non-licensed....eyeglass onliners multiply daily....BigE /CC beats the Quebec Order against onliners....
    and on and on. It's coming apart at the seams folks and the big corps are making it happen.

    # 3 Yes, Big E does not care about my not buying from them. They are making hand over fist profits everywhere else, so that acutally I am more of a PROBLEM for them than an adavntage.

    # 4 And truly, explain to me the difference between and $1800.00 pair of Prada (injected moulded frames) eyeglasses with 1.67 / trans / Seiko FF Hd Surmount / Oleophobic AR coating (bought at an ECP office) and my pair at $ 550.00 with a generic plastic acetate frame ...1.67 / trans / Comfort FF HD / with ETC-AR coating. This is an actual case that came to my office. Her Prada frame temples had all blistered at the back of her ear. The ECP said it was caused by her hair dye and no guarantee ($300.00 for new temples) . Mine fully guarenteed for one year. She asked me for a quote on a new pair and was devestated that she had paid so much.

    This type of issue #4 is what is causing the public to look upon ECP's a legal thieves. They see high prices in our stores, low prices online. They see TV/newspaper/magazine/internet articles that suggest...NO PUSH ...people to go online for their eyeglasses.

    Are we the thieves and the onliners the reality.
    It is very unfair but nothing will change. It's much easier to adapt to the reality of this and make the necessary changes in house then to wait for the unfortunate results since the colleges and associations will never do anything about it.

    A simple solution is to have two price lists in house - one with full warranty and service included, the other with no warranty and no follow up service priced less than the other one. Then let the customer decide. Have a full disclaimer to give them in hand when they decide to go the cheap route so they don't come knocking back on your door crying for warranty and service.

    It's human nature to want to have your cake and eat it! But in reality, it's not possible. Maybe losing some margin is a great trade-off to not have put up with idiot customers after the sale!

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    Blue Jumper Are we the thieves and the onliners the reality. ...................................

    Quote Originally Posted by coupe View Post

    Are we the thieves and the onliners the reality.

    ....................I believe there is a little more to it than just a sentence.

    The North American Continent has become the testing ground for the big optical corporations. It is obvious that they are going full out in every possible direction to achieve full domination of the optical retail market besides already having near control of the manufacturing side.

    In Europe they have already achieved to control the laboratory side where the smaller labs disappear and are being replaced by the big monster outfits.

    To me it looks like they want to strangle the MA&PA or B&M operation in the not to distant future.

    Optician have helped them along by pushing all the lens treatments they can not do in their on on site lab, and have to sell them at higher prices and which are made in a central location.

    When onliners can sell at a certain price we can all be sure that there is also so profit in their selling prices but the quantity makes the buck, so if the consumer is short on cash he will go there where it costs less.

    The regular non specialized optician looks more and more like a loosing breed, unless they adapt.
    Chris Ryser
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    http://optochemicals.com............................. http://arcoatings.com

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    "When onliners can sell at a certain price we can all be sure that there is also so profit in their selling prices but the quantity makes the buck"

    That may not be true actually. It is very far from clear whether online opticals make a profit. I have a feeling even WP, despite all the hype they have created, is far from profitable. A number of less-well funded online ops have folded their tents.

    Since dropping E our COGS has also dropped meaningully, our earnings have grown, and we have been passing on savings to consumers at the same time. Not one has complained.

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    Blue Jumper These days the on-line optical's are making profits .................................

    There used to be a time when a frame importer and wholesaler was making a gross profit of around 42% and ended up making making a net of between 4-9%.

    That was back in the 1960's and 1970's. Then the frame market started to get flooded by newcomers and new producers.

    In the 1980's frame wholesalers started to give retailers consignment inventory of pay only what you, sold and return what you could not sell to gain customers.

    The golden times for optical retailers had just started. They increased their stock at no cost. Warranties and exchange privileges were offered for years.

    However they did not complain that the wholesalers where forced to increase their gross profit to finance these these new habits. So in the 1980's and further, the cost of frames to the retail market went sky high
    while the cost of producing went down with the production that got shifted from Europe to the Far East.

    These days when it is easy to check manufacturers selling prices on centralized web sites like AliBaba, one can clearly see that today's frames are sold ex factory at similar rates to the price range they were in the 1960's.

    One large difference is that many or most new models come in limited sizes and not in a full range of sizes as they used to.

    These days the on-line optical's are making profits in the same range as they optical retail used to make because they have cut out the middle man,
    the frame wholesale company that is financing the retailers with high prices or they get steep discounts for quantity purchases.
    Chris Ryser
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    http://optochemicals.com............................. http://arcoatings.com

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    "These days the on-line optical's are making profits in the same range as they optical retail used to make because they have cut out the middle man,
    the frame wholesale company that is financing the retailers with high prices or they get steep discounts for quantity purchases."

    Woe is the middle man....

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    Quote Originally Posted by optimensch View Post
    "These days the on-line optical's are making profits in the same range as they optical retail used to make because they have cut out the middle man,
    the frame wholesale company that is financing the retailers with high prices or they get steep discounts for quantity purchases."

    Woe is the middle man....
    British Columbia discovered just who the middle man is and the rest of the Provinces might be about to discover that same demise.

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    This is really getting away form the original thread. ECP's keep supporting Essilor who is their competition. Not just online, but Essilor keeps Wal Mart and Costco in business. They continually offer them incentives, lower pricing and advertising money. Many of our peers simply sit around and write them a cheque each month. It's enough already. For years I have only given my business to an independent lab. I refuxe to give money to someone who is actively trying and take my patients away

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    Redhot Jumper As far as I know the Costsco's and WalMarts have their own monster labs............

    Quote Originally Posted by qualitylenses View Post

    Not just online, but Essilor keeps Wal Mart and Costco in business. They continually offer them incentives, lower pricing and advertising money.

    As far as I know the Costsco's and WalMarts have their own monster labs
    operating across this continent to supply their outlets, and I believe that they do not need any support to stay in business.
    Chris Ryser
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    http://optochemicals.com............................. http://arcoatings.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    As far as I know the Costsco's and WalMarts have their own monster labs
    operating across this continent to supply their outlets, and I believe that they do not need any support to stay in business.

    Actually all of Wal Marts work is done by Essilor(for a time earlier this year Hoya did a portion of it). Essilor also purchases and manages their frame inventory for them. Costco purchases all their lens and coating supplies from Essilor and only uses their freeform designs. All this work is heavily subsidized by the ECP's so that Essilor can control larger market share. Again, the independent is helping their competition flourish.

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    What's your explanation as to why ECPs do it and what's the explanation as to why independent labs have not changed ECP thinking ?

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    The only reason I can assume ECP's support Essilor/Nikon, ie their competition is that the majority do not see the whole picture. Plus Essilor has great marketing and can spin the story to their advantage (look at Coastal).Once they offered us a "free edger" When I compared their lab prices to what I was paying from my independent lab, I could have bought two edgers over 5 years and had even more money in the bank. I wonder how many poor businessman/ECP's fell for that rip-off.

    We have used Plastic Plus for a number of years. We started with their Seiko freeform designs over 5 years ago and are thrilled. I don't know in the rest of the country, but now with Riverside becoming Essilor there are no other high tech labs here. Essilor controls the market and the pricing.

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    Blue Jumper The Canadian optical trade magazines will not take a stand ..........................

    Quote Originally Posted by qualitylenses View Post

    All this work is heavily subsidized by the ECP's so that Essilor can control larger market share. Again, the independent is helping their competition flourish.

    ................and the faster and sooner this competition will make the efforts to deregulate the regional professional bodies. So far they have succeeded in Quebec which will see a lot more public advertising in French, the native home language of E and the majority of optical professionals.

    The Canadian optical trade magazines will not take a stand in this issue as they do not want to loose the income from advertising. The hand is around their throat.

    I have just been accepted as a member at Board-URL: http://forum.optiker.de which is a closed forum and only open to professionals. So I will be getting a closer view of the happenings in Germany and other areas in the German language.
    Chris Ryser
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    As far as I know the Costsco's and WalMarts have their own monster labs
    operating across this continent to supply their outlets, and I believe that they do not need any support to stay in business.
    In Canada, Wal-Mart contracts out all of their business to E's labs in Etobicoke, while Costco operates their own facility in Montreal but is exclusive of rebranded E's products.

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    Quote Originally Posted by qualitylenses View Post
    The only reason I can assume ECP's support Essilor/Nikon, ie their competition is that the majority do not see the whole picture. Plus Essilor has great marketing and can spin the story to their advantage (look at Coastal).Once they offered us a "free edger" When I compared their lab prices to what I was paying from my independent lab, I could have bought two edgers over 5 years and had even more money in the bank. I wonder how many poor businessman/ECP's fell for that rip-off.

    We have used Plastic Plus for a number of years. We started with their Seiko freeform designs over 5 years ago and are thrilled. I don't know in the rest of the country, but now with Riverside becoming Essilor there are no other high tech labs here. Essilor controls the market and the pricing.
    There are quite a few decent options out there; you just need to search a little harder.

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    We are very happy with Plastic Plus. Have used them almost exclusively for close to 10 years. Great customer service and great freeform designs. If there is even a mistake (ours or theirs) it is corrected very quickly. They also give us some great freeform at lower prices for the patients who require.

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    Quote Originally Posted by qualitylenses View Post
    We are very happy with Plastic Plus. Have used them almost exclusively for close to 10 years. Great customer service and great freeform designs. If there is even a mistake (ours or theirs) it is corrected very quickly. They also give us some great freeform at lower prices for the patients who require.
    This thread is beginning to take shape of a cheesy self made infomercial.

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