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Thread: Attention managment

  1. #26
    Master OptiBoarder pseudonym's Avatar
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    Doesn't matter who pays the bills etc. Bottom line is that the optician, not the doc, turned a recommendation into a thousand dollar sale. She shouldn't stealing credit for something she didn't herself do. And, by the way, does she know anything about making seg hts a mm higher for hyperopes, a mm lower for tall people, preadjusting the frame before taking the seg ht, taking decentration into consideration before choosing a frame where the lens might not cut out.....bet not.

  2. #27
    Master OptiBoarder MakeOptics's Avatar
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    Are thousand dollar sales rare around these parts? Yeah team effort.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by pseudonym View Post
    Doesn't matter who pays the bills etc. Bottom line is that the optician, not the doc, turned a recommendation into a thousand dollar sale. She shouldn't stealing credit for something she didn't herself do..
    How much advertising did the optician have to do to attract the patient to the practice? They must REALLY be good!
    Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry

  4. #29
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    I took this to heart. I doubled my hourly salary and also make commission in less than 1 year. Had to make 2 moves to get there, but I did it. Now I work 5 minutes from my house... A pay raise in its own considering I was driving 45-60 minutes one way. :)

    make your move!

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johns View Post
    How much advertising did the optician have to do to attract the patient to the practice? They must REALLY be good!
    There you go, Johns, stirring it up. Some opticians do plenty to promote the business. Yesterday was World Sight Day. Two opticians from my company went to a K-8 school to educate students/parents/staff on the importance of an eye exam. Our doc wanted to go, but unfortunately could not attend. By the way, we did it without pay.

    He did loan us a plastic eyeball for the kids to view.
    Last edited by pseudonym; 10-10-2014 at 03:10 PM. Reason: forgot to add the plastic eyeball

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by pseudonym View Post
    Doesn't matter who pays the bills etc. Bottom line is that the optician, not the doc, turned a recommendation into a thousand dollar sale. She shouldn't stealing credit for something she didn't herself do. And, by the way, does she know anything about making seg hts a mm higher for hyperopes, a mm lower for tall people, preadjusting the frame before taking the seg ht, taking decentration into consideration before choosing a frame where the lens might not cut out.....bet not.
    Doesn't matter who pays the bills?

    Stealing credit?

    I'm almost lost for words.

    Who ever pays the bills, is responsible for the success or failure of the business.

    Credit? Your credit is your salary and/or your commission.

    If you aren't happy with that alone, either negotiate higher terms, or find someone who will satisfy your worth.


    I agree that owners, managers, and optometrists could always be more humble, encouraging, and supportive.

    But they are people too, and why should a positive return on their investment, which they played a part in, be down played by the fact that
    one of their employees, which they hired, is turning a profit.

  7. #32
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Jubilee's Avatar
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    Its a partnership. In most cases, a symbiotic one. Yes the doctor helped plant the seed. However the optician made it grow. Would chaotic have made the same sale without the doctor's intervention? Who knows. Possible, but most likely would have had to work harder on it. Would the doctor have made the same sale without chaotic? We don't know. Once again, possible, but most likely would have taken a lot more work for them.

    Good employees will promote the practice, put a positive face on the business, and in general bring in new and repeat business.
    Good owners will empower their staff, encourage and develop them, so that employees will know they are appreciated and their contributions recognized.

    I will admit at times the viewpoint that employees by default do nothing to promote/market/bring in business to the office really bothers me. Perhaps I have just worked in a few situations where I have felt I have invested more of my time and energy in making something work than the owner(s) who rather watch, criticize and deny any assistance or resources when asked. Money isn't the only currency.
    "Some believe in destiny, and some believe in fate. But I believe that happiness is something we create."-Something More by Sugarland

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by pseudonym View Post
    There you go, Johns, stirring it up. Some opticians do plenty to promote the business. Yesterday was World Sight Day. Two opticians from my company went to a K-8 school to educate students/parents/staff on the importance of an eye exam. Our doc wanted to go, but unfortunately could not attend. By the way, we did it without pay.

    He did loan us a plastic eyeball for the kids to view.
    Volunteering is always nice. If you are doing it specifically to promote an individual's business/practice, you should get paid.

    I'm not so much stirring things up, as I am pointing out the obvious. Without the practice being there, invested in, and built by someone else (or a group), you have no place to "be wonderful", except the street corner. It's really that simple.
    Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry

  9. #34
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    Commission is not a guaranteed pay, Commission comes with risks, for the doctor to make a snide remake is classless.

    If an employee came to me with the news they just did a $1,000 sale I would congratulate them.

    If an employee of mine comments on how their check is better then they were expecting, I reinforce the good feeling by thanking them again for all they do for the business.

    The owner's reward for struggling and opening a business is financial success, Not ego.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jubilee View Post
    Its a partnership. In most cases, a symbiotic one. Yes the doctor helped plant the seed. However the optician made it grow. Would chaotic have made the same sale without the doctor's intervention? Who knows. Possible, but most likely would have had to work harder on it. Would the doctor have made the same sale without chaotic? We don't know. Once again, possible, but most likely would have taken a lot more work for them.

    Good employees will promote the practice, put a positive face on the business, and in general bring in new and repeat business.
    Good owners will empower their staff, encourage and develop them, so that employees will know they are appreciated and their contributions recognized.

    I will admit at times the viewpoint that employees by default do nothing to promote/market/bring in business to the office really bothers me. Perhaps I have just worked in a few situations where I have felt I have invested more of my time and energy in making something work than the owner(s) who rather watch, criticize and deny any assistance or resources when asked. Money isn't the only currency.
    Can't imagine there' much more to add. When either party forgets it's a symbiosis, then the thing is in trouble. I'll eagerly admit the doc recommending from the exam chair makes my job much easier. Still, the put is just as much a performance of skill as the wedge shot---and the doc back at the tee isn't doing either, so it just boils down to manners that anyone who has coworkers should have. We're a less valuable coworker/boss if we lack them. We're harming our practice and business when we don't respect one another, regardless of where on the ladder we are on the chain of command.

    Think I'll brush the dust off my Confucian Ethics tomes...
    Last edited by Hayde; 10-11-2014 at 10:30 AM. Reason: clarity

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by optilady1 View Post
    I can't believe the amount of responses that are telling the OP to just leave if they are unhappy. Like it's that simple. Gosh we are such a bunch a judgemental jerks sometimes.
    It really is that simple! You can do it!

    If he is as good as he says he is, tons of other places would love to have him. Unhappy, do something about it. Talk to management about the situation or find another place. Life is too short to bottle it up. At the same time , life is too short to work around someone who is unhappy. The discussion about who is responsible for the sales or growing the biz is unproductive and won't change a thing. Although I do agree it is a total team effort.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by optilady1 View Post
    I can't believe the amount of responses that are telling the OP to just leave if they are unhappy. Like it's that simple. Gosh we are such a bunch a judgemental jerks sometimes.
    I love you Optilady1. I hope that's not to creepy.

    Yes, as Judge Judy would quickly point out "If your unhappy where you live...Move!".
    Allow me to clarify my original position. The owner of the business took full credit on a sale that she had partial responsibility for. My core philosophy reminds me that I should be very thankful to have a job. My 20 years of marriage has taught me to live my life until I die, and shut the hell up about it (which may be the title to the book im going to write). My 25 years of customer service warns me to smile and agree. I have no problem fluffing the Doctors ego because that's what she requires. I can simply change my opticians hat to the jesters hat and dance and juggle for her whenever she needs. It's part of who I am and what I bring to the table. Finding a new place to hang my jester hat is, as Optilady1 pointed out, not as easy as all that. There are 4 places I can choose from. Two are clinics that have no need for another tech. That leaves me with this place, and the competition across the road. Seriously, its right across the street from us. I can wave to them. Sometimes I do. Im not all that and a bag of potato chips. Im pretty good at what I do because I take pride in my work and I put a lot of thought and effort into the things that I do. This forum has provided me with an outlet to express my experiences and share my thoughts to (hopefully) improve and inspire others to think or act in a more positive, productive way.

    Thanks for listening.

    P.S.
    Quote Originally Posted by optilady1 View Post
    bunch a judgemental jerks.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by AustinEyewear View Post
    It really is that simple! You can do it!

    If he is as good as he says he is, tons of other places would love to have him. Unhappy, do something about it. Talk to management about the situation or find another place. Life is too short to bottle it up. At the same time , life is too short to work around someone who is unhappy. The discussion about who is responsible for the sales or growing the biz is unproductive and won't change a thing. Although I do agree it is a total team effort.
    No, it's not that simple. I've been looking for a new job since July, and I only just found something two days ago. I'm no Darryl Meister, or Barry Santini, but I'm pretty freaking good, and it wasn't a quick slam dunk for me. Not everyone can just up and quit a job because their boss was a poopy head to them. We all can demand respect from our co-workers and even our managers, in a respectful and humble way, and that is something that has taken me a long time to learn because I hate conflict. So maybe that's something that Chaoticneutral should work on.

    I also understand that it is the Doctors who are putting it all out on the line and risking it all to open a business, specially after lots of college loans. We should all be thankful if we are lucky enough to work for a doctor, and specially if we work for a great, charismatic, intelligent doctor.

    Optiboard is where we are supposed to be able to come and, judgment free, express how frustrating our job can be. It certainly can be due to the patients, but hey, I've worked for plenty of doctors who are the biggest pains in the butt ever. I personally think that chaotic neutral got a little ruffed up in this thread. I see where some people are coming from, but like, chill out sometimes, ya know?

  14. #39
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    It is that simple for someone with the appropriate license to go along with that background. I have never seen any Optician in my nearly 45 years in this industry not think they were the best! Unfortunately, the biggest problem Opticians face is their almost total lack of knowledge in optics. You can shout to the rooftops how good you are, and you have little proof to support it. IF you had a degree, and a license that would stand as validation. Even in unlicensed states you would at least have some standing. Unfortunately now, we attract not the best prepared and brightest to the field, but largely the laziest and least prepared, as is evidenced here daily with some of the posts from these "professionals" who have absolutely no clue how to even adequately do their jobs. From your posts, I do not think you are one of those, but are a victim of a poor system that does not allow for a common background for all Opticians. If you had a license, your path would have been an easy one. Once you get it, you will find you are far more valuable in your state. I wish you the best in your new home.

  15. #40
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    If your post is to me, I have a degree and am licensed in two different states

  16. #41
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    The biggest problem I see in this industry is someone with years of experience wanting to leave their job but are unwilling to take a temporary pay cut to prove themselves. I think that is what it makes it so difficult to find a new job. How does your prospective employer know you are that good? An occasional XXXX dollar sale or is every sale that good? Will you integrate with the team? Will you help do other tasks or do you just want to sit back and wait for patients to walk in wanting glasses? The employer could hire you at that high pay you are asking, but then you have to allow them to let you go just as quick if you don't live up to expectations or lower your pay to an appropriate level. That is very sticky for everyone. Employers hate to fire people and employees hate to take pay cuts.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by pseudonym View Post
    Doesn't matter who pays the bills etc. Bottom line is that the optician, not the doc, turned a recommendation into a thousand dollar sale. She shouldn't stealing credit for something she didn't herself do. And, by the way, does she know anything about making seg hts a mm higher for hyperopes, a mm lower for tall people, preadjusting the frame before taking the seg ht, taking decentration into consideration before choosing a frame where the lens might not cut out.....bet not.
    Totally agree. In any business it is best to create and foster an atmosphere of "TEAM" work.

    Our doctor has an "it's my business, sit down and shut up" attitude. Sure, he may be the owner, pay the bills, but can he run the clinic all by himself? No. Order all the lenses for all the patients by himself? No. Does he know how to? No.

    So all owners and managers should understand that it can't be done without the worker-bees.

    But my BIGGEST gripe ( and this REALLY gets me ****** off ) is when underlings are not treated as ADULTS. My doctor has, in the recent past, literally "yelled" at me. I swear next time I am going to ask him if we can have a conversation like two adults (and if not I'll come back later when he can.) I see no reason for that kind of behavior. (And before anyone thinks something was my fault; a patient requested the codes for treatment for dry eyes so she could talk to her insurance company about it, see if they were going to cover it. He screamed at me that I wasn't to give patients diagnostic or procedure codes.)

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by optilady1 View Post
    If your post is to me, I have a degree and am licensed in two different states
    Read my comments again, as they were not directed to you personally but the field in general. I was under the impression earlier you were struggling to find something in Washington, because you did not have a license there? Without a specific license one cannot function effectively, and we need to have some way to travel across borders if we could agree on what an Optician is and does. Consider someone with no license, or degree, all they have is their experience. Sometimes it is good, but often not so much, and they struggle to find decent jobs.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joyley View Post
    Totally agree. In any business it is best to create and foster an atmosphere of "TEAM" work.

    Our doctor has an "it's my business, sit down and shut up" attitude. Sure, he may be the owner, pay the bills, but can he run the clinic all by himself? No. Order all the lenses for all the patients by himself? No. Does he know how to? No.

    So all owners and managers should understand that it can't be done without the worker-bees.

    But my BIGGEST gripe ( and this REALLY gets me ****** off ) is when underlings are not treated as ADULTS. My doctor has, in the recent past, literally "yelled" at me. I swear next time I am going to ask him if we can have a conversation like two adults (and if not I'll come back later when he can.) I see no reason for that kind of behavior. (And before anyone thinks something was my fault; a patient requested the codes for treatment for dry eyes so she could talk to her insurance company about it, see if they were going to cover it. He screamed at me that I wasn't to give patients diagnostic or procedure codes.)
    IMO, the worst thing you can have in a business is "Team Work"

    The company that promotes "Team Work" the most is Walmart.
    I hope I don't have to explain why.

    Bottom line is, you are hired to do a job.

    In many industries, skilled workers are contracted out.
    Unskilled workers are kept on a tight leash and let go before 90 days, or are paid minimum wage until they quit.


    If it were not for private practice doctors, most of us would be working for corporate chains, making less and working more.

    If you don't have a monetary vested interest in a company,
    you really have no say in how it's run.

    There's a lot of pressure that goes into setting up and running a business.
    It affects different people in different ways.
    And people take it out in different ways.

    If the person you work for, who pays for the roof you work under, needs to vent or feel good about themselves.
    Why no just let them.

    At the end of the day, if the business tanks, they are in more debt than they started with, and you will just move on to another job.


    I agree owners, managers, and doctors could be nicer.

    But you can either try and change them, or you can make a change for yourself.
    By either negotiating better terms, or moving on.
    It is that simple. If you are unhappy, do something about it.
    Don't expect or try to change others to make yourself happy, that's a losing battle from the start.

  20. #45
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    Obviously, you are not aware of contemporary management philosophy. A team approach is used throughout health care, and research shows it is highly successful. If the organization does not work as a team the chances of failure are high. As to private practice docs, the ODs pay the least, and corporations actually have the highest salaries of employed Opticians.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmcdonald View Post
    Obviously, you are not aware of contemporary management philosophy. A team approach is used throughout health care, and research shows it is highly successful. If the organization does not work as a team the chances of failure are high. As to private practice docs, the ODs pay the least, and corporations actually have the highest salaries of employed Opticians.
    I am well aware of modern management philosophies, however, that's just a nice idea.
    That's not how most companies are run, and it's not how most private practices are run.

    A team approach is very successful in healthcare, I definitely agree, I also agree that it has the ability to make a business successful(i.e. walmart).
    But as far as ophthalmic dispensing goes.
    That is not healthcare. It's retail.
    The healthcare part stops once the patient walks out of the doctors office.

    Corporations pay higher than private practice OD's?
    So you mean to say most of you get paid $10/hr?

  22. #47
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    [QUOTE=ml43;494867]But as far as ophthalmic dispensing goes.
    That is not healthcare. It's retail.
    The healthcare part stops once the patient walks out of the doctors office. QUOTE]

    Could not disagree more. No disrespect intended, ml43, not out to throw rocks at you. But I would believe an optician who thinks this is a danger to any doctor s/he is working for. We're in the business of medical prosthetics. Not saying there's no retail component, but opticianry is the follow-through of a health care encounter.

    Food for thought. : )

  23. #48
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    [QUOTE=Hayde;494873]
    Quote Originally Posted by ml43 View Post
    But as far as ophthalmic dispensing goes.
    That is not healthcare. It's retail.
    The healthcare part stops once the patient walks out of the doctors office. QUOTE]

    Could not disagree more. No disrespect intended, ml43, not out to throw rocks at you. But I would believe an optician who thinks this is a danger to any doctor s/he is working for. We're in the business of medical prosthetics. Not saying there's no retail component, but opticianry is the follow-through of a health care encounter.

    Food for thought. : )
    no worries, this isn't about respect.
    this is about opinions and solutions to problems we face in industry.


    keep in mind, there are many of us in industry that don't work for doctors.

    IMO, ophthalmic dispensing is just dressed up as healthcare. sure it's a medical device. but the way we sell a lot of things is more retail than it is medical.

    And the way many optical's are run, numbers are everything, not necessarily doing what's best for the patient.

    granted the medical industry as a whole has shifted to this model over the past few years. but you don't see your local pharmacist or pharmacy tech complaining that their boss stole their sale or pride.

    that's a pure retail problem. not a medical or healthcare problem.

  24. #49
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    I think it is more an attitude and a vision problem within the field. Opticians can do far more than they do now.......if they just would.

  25. #50
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    Corporate managers in NC are paid well, and it is not unusual to see 60-65K. Opticians in the stores are in the 40-50K range. You may also want to review the NAO and other salary data which will back that up. Average salaries in the nation are 40+. I am unaware of anywhere.......even in California that Opticians only make 10.00 an hour. That is a shame if it is true, but the data does not support it. As to your understanding of management.......it certainly is not reflected in your posts. And finally, I see Opticians in a health care world, while others here disagree. Another reason branding just is not possible. We are too divergent in thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by ml43 View Post
    I am well aware of modern management philosophies, however, that's just a nice idea.
    That's not how most companies are run, and it's not how most private practices are run.

    A team approach is very successful in healthcare, I definitely agree, I also agree that it has the ability to make a business successful(i.e. walmart).
    But as far as ophthalmic dispensing goes.
    That is not healthcare. It's retail.
    The healthcare part stops once the patient walks out of the doctors office.

    Corporations pay higher than private practice OD's?
    So you mean to say most of you get paid $10/hr?

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