Do they play in the same league/ball park? Thanks for any enlightening comments.
Do they play in the same league/ball park? Thanks for any enlightening comments.
Clinton Tower
The intellect to live free is in short supply
ALT248=°
Well...if we're looking at VSP categories....the Auto III would be in the same category as Physio Enhanced *Fit* and/or Varilux S Series Fit.
The Auto III is a much newer product than the Physio Enhanced so keep that in mind (doesn't use POW measurements.) My Shamir rep was just in this morning so the tech details of the Auto III are still fresh and I would say that Enhanced is years behind the tech in the Auto III.
I agree about the levels of tech between the two.
From what I understand the Physio Enhanced is a digital lens wile the Auto 3 is a free form. The biggest difference is that the Auto 3 has a design specifically for myopes and hyperopes.
As for what I've seen from them, I've had no real non-adapts (one just refused to give getting used to a pal time) with the Auto 3 and I've been using it for almost a year. They Physio Enhanced I've had a few over the years I used it. Mostly myopes that did not like the reading areas or where taken out of a Seko or Shamir design. The only down side to the Auto 3 is the price. Almost double what the auto 2 is.
I agree. The Auto III technology is far more advanced and more customizable than the Physio 360 Enhanced. If I'm not mistaken, I believe that the Auto III is a fully back surface design and the Physio 360 enhanced is a dual surface (front & back) design. I have heard most people say that they've had less "non-adapts" from Auto III than from Physio 360 enhanced.
[QUOTE=Boldt;490246]I agree about the levels of tech between the two.
"From what I understand the Physio Enhanced is a digital lens wile the Auto 3 is a free form."
"Digital" and "freeform" are one and the same. Not a lens but a process.
[QUOTE=Jamcar97:490259]Actually "digital" is the process and "freeform" is the design. So they are not the same.Originally Posted by Boldt
Digital = data stored and processed using numerical strings of 0's and 1's, using machine and programing languages, dacs, and computers.
Free-form = a surface, made by a machine/manufacturing platform that can generate and polish non-rotationaly symmetric surfaces.
If you want to separate the men from the boys, use the terms customizable and optimized, and be specific.
Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. - Richard P. Feynman
Experience is the hardest teacher. She gives the test before the lesson.
[QUOTE=golfnut;490263]Actually, you're both wrong.
Digital lenses are merely typical molded lenses like have been around forever, except they skip one step in the manufacturing of the lens because that step has been digitized. It's like the paperless office of progressive lenses; they help maintain more consistent quality of molded lenses, so there are fewer defective products.
Freeform lenses in and of themselves are hardly any better. All a freeform lens does is use a generator that is capable of complex cuts. This can be applied to an existing molded design, or a customized product can be produced from it.
The Auto III is a freeform lens that ALSO incorporates additional algorithms to improve the performance of the lens design for a given rx
The Physio Enhanced is also freeform, based on the physio design, that then makes modifications to the design to improve the performance for a given rx.
Am I the only one who reads this OP and find myself scrolling down to see if Mr. Martellaro has chimed in?
strings of O's and 1's--- point files?
dacs--- Data Acquisition and Control?
Non-rotationally symmetric surface--- Using a cutting tool rather than a lap?
Welcome to Optiboard and your baptism by fire Jamcar97! We all experience it!!! Keep posting.
Last edited by Uncle Fester; 08-07-2014 at 01:56 PM. Reason: tweak...
No. Physio has the PAL design molded onto the front with the backside being freeform generated. The Auto3 is a full-backside freeform which means the PAL design, Rx and any customization/optimization all occur on the backside of the lens. There is a huge difference.
I don't have much experience with Essilor lenses but my understanding is that the "Short" version of Physio uses the same blank as the standard, but is then digitally customized on the back to create the short corridor effect.
-Tony
Physio Enhanced does not qualify as a "Freeform lens" because it has a molded front/PAL design ( Same blank as a regular Physio) with digital enhancement applied on the back (atoricity/asphericity).
"Digital" is a manufacturing platform, just like a regular generator is a platform of manufacturing. Just because a lens is run on digital CNC equipment does not make it freeform. You can run a regular FT 28 on digital equipment, add atoricity/asphericity optimization, but it's still not a "FF" lens since it used regular molding technology on the front.
+1
I think I'm thinking of Physio Drx that is the back side "freeform," which is more or less a physio enhanced but full back surfaced.
Full disclosure: I don't use essilor/varilux progressive products unless absolutely necessary and haven't for years, so I only know enough about the products to know that I'm still not impressed (although they are working on it).
[QUOTE=Jamcar97;490259]True, in the sense that that they convey no information about the quality of the optics. Similar to 'HD' lenses.
Point files are the data files that describe surfaces, in the form of digital, that is, 0's and 1's. I'm only a dispensing optician, so to go further, let's call in an expert in modern ophthalmic lens manufacturing.
Digital to analog conversion.dacs--- Data Acquisition and Control?
An atoric surface.Non-rotationally symmetric surface--- Using a cutting tool rather than a lap?
Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. - Richard P. Feynman
Experience is the hardest teacher. She gives the test before the lesson.
Nice discussion on processing nuance, informative.
Using the "fixed" corridor "model" of the Auto III, does that give me the ability to custom tailor a fitting for my patients? For instance using a shorter corridor model to emphasize reading area and vice versa use a longer corridor model to emphasize intermediate. This is not available to me in the Physio Enhanced?
Am I correct in reading the literature on the Auto III that they employ an optical design that gives the same angular field of view regardless if the RX is myopic or hyperopic?
Thanks
Clinton Tower
The intellect to live free is in short supply
ALT248=°
Yes you are correct.
I'm still lost. I've been told that Definity (Essilor) was the first dual sided digital lens. Then there are lenses which are all back side, not split.
So, baby stepping backwards, dual split or back side only? Which is better.
After that, I need to figure out which is the best lens for us. I'm leaning toward the Auto III, although some of our opticians would say the Physio 360. ((( By the way, what is the difference between the Physio Enhanced and the Physio 360???)))
The Physio 360 has been discontinued, no?
The bias against Essilor is what it is - and much of it deserved. But the Enhanced line does have some advantages for hyperopic patients. To keep the plus power (at least in the bifocal) on the front surface is a cosmetic advantage and simplifies digital grinding on the back surface. Physio and Comfort are proven designs. Autograph 3 seems to be a much improved design over the Auto 2 for plus powers - especially for reading convergence. I don't have a problem reccomending either.
Adding to Jason's post-
In general, a split add is not inherently better, but putting some or all of the add on the front for moderately high and high plus RXs allows a flatter base curve (reduced magnification and better cosmesis), encouraging a steeper (non-negative or plano) ocular curve.
Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. - Richard P. Feynman
Experience is the hardest teacher. She gives the test before the lesson.
SharpStick has posted some quality info on much of these topics in his recent posts. I went back and re-read a bunch of them not long ago, wealth of information.
CS
Here's my understanding of what Essilor calls "digital", gained directly from an Essilor lab person:
1) Older (mostly no longer sold) Conventional Essilor Progressive: A lens where the front basecurve of the lens isn't uniform all the way across the lens. Instead, it curves at a varied rate, effectively adding power toward the bottom of the lens. The front side of the lens is molded, and the back side is surfaced.
2) Newer Conventional Progressives (original Comfort and newer): Similar to the original progressives, except each add power has its mold individually optimized for that add power, rather than using a general design for all add powers. Conventional backsurfaced lenses.
3) "Digital" Progressives (Ovation DS): Basically identical to the newer Essilor Conventional Progressives (they use the same conventional molds, in fact), except they use funky computer software during their standard back surfacing to optimize the lens slightly more for the particular frame, heights, and PDs. This helps give a better product, and it helps more than you'd think likely. Ovation DS is a decent step up from Conventional Ovation, despite using the same blanks.
4) Advanced Digital Progressives: Uses the same software enhancements during surfacing as their digital progressive lenses. In addition, the lens molds are designed using more advanced computer modeling techniques, giving a more refined end result. To reiterate, these are *new lens molds*, and thus yield a very different (especially from the customer's point of view) product than their standard digital counterpars. Ovation ADS (Advanced Digital Surfacing) and many other "enhanced" lenses fall under this category. This category includes what Essilor calls "DDV technology", and according to the lab guy, "DDV gives "Point by Point" accuracy or what we called Image Control".
None of those products uses anything that could be described as a "freeform" process.
That's what the Essilor lab guy I talked to said. Can't say for sure how much of it is correct, but it certainly fit with what I knew.
It's my understanding (and this is partly just guesswork on my part), that a Physio DS is a standard "Digital" product that uses a conventional Physio blank, while a Physio 360 uses the ADS system, and significantly decreases the downsides of the Physio/PhysioDS line of products. The Comfort and Physio 360 are quite different products from a customer point of view when compared to their conventional and older digital counterparts though, and customers occasionally have difficulty adapting, in my experience. Especially comfort. I find that a switch from Comfort to Comfort 360 doesn't work as well as Comfort to Ovation ADS, strangely. Wouldn't think it would work that way.
Last edited by stedel; 09-02-2014 at 10:02 PM.
Every Physio Enhanced that I've put a patient in has come back unhappy. For some reason it's not a big hit over here. Auto III I haven't had one complaint...yet.
It's nice to see someone get it right, as far as digital vs. freeform. Freeform is a process. Digital lenses can still be molded, and the molds can also be produced digitally. As far as split add power, I do not see the benefit. When the design and power are on the back surface, patients perceive them as being wider. (The old keyhole effect). Additionally, with split adds, if lenses aren't blocked correctly or they slip, what you just surfaced on the back does not line up with what is molded on the front. this is extremely hard for the average optician to detect.
Last edited by eyepod; 09-12-2014 at 04:23 PM.
"Make the most of yourself.....for that is all there is of you" - Emerson
Interesting. We use Physio, Physio Short and Physio Enhanced all the time with no issues. One thing I find important with them is that they are fit on the pupil and not dropped.
Auto 3 does use POW measurements. Shamir requests vertex, wrap and tilt.
"Make the most of yourself.....for that is all there is of you" - Emerson
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks