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Thread: Patients asking for PD's to order online...what do you do?

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by standarduck View Post
    Are you always so aggressive to people who might disagree with you? I didn't mean to get your back up.
    Only when people make preposterous claims that a patient is going to blame an OD/optician for an online purchase that didn't work out, just because they gave them the PD. There may be legitimate reasons why you may not want to provide a PD for free so someone can order online, but that one is a bit far-fetched IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by m0002a View Post
    Only when people make preposterous claims that a patient is going to blame an OD/optician for an online purchase that didn't work out, just because they gave them the PD. There may be legitimate reasons why you may not want to provide a PD for free so someone can order online, but that one is a bit far-fetched IMO.
    Have you never had that happen? I'm surprised - perhaps there's more common sense in the US, but here in the UK I know that quite a few colleagues have been stung in this way. I agree that it's preposterous, but it's not unheard of.

    As for being the only reason not to give a PD out, you're right, it's a crappy excuse. I'm glad no one has asked me for a PD for years, because it means I don't have to worry about it too much.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by standarduck View Post
    Have you never had that happen? I'm surprised - perhaps there's more common sense in the US, but here in the UK I know that quite a few colleagues have been stung in this way. I agree that it's preposterous, but it's not unheard of.

    As for being the only reason not to give a PD out, you're right, it's a crappy excuse. I'm glad no one has asked me for a PD for years, because it means I don't have to worry about it too much.
    In the US, an OD (or anyone who refracts) is required by law to give the patient a written copy of the Rx, and the patient may go elsewhere to get it dispensed (online or at a brick and mortar optical). That in itself creates a lot of opportunity for a patient to blame the OD/refractor if something goes wrong with the final product, and problems do sometimes happen since not all refractions are perfect (due to OD's fault or patient's fault). There is infinitely more opportunity for an OD to get blamed in this situation compared to just giving out the PD measurement, which is usually more straightforward (unless one is talking about near PD). When the law requiring patients to be given their Rx was first implemented, many predicted the end of the world and total chaos. Although there are sometimes problems with this legal requirement, most people in the optical industry have adapted to it, and the world did not come to an end.

    As I mentioned several time already, there are websites that allow one to upload a photograph that will accurately measure PD. Hoya uses the same technology with the their iPad app used for the MyStyle customization measurements (which also measures panto, vertex, etc). The optical industry had better start getting prepared for this, because failure to have a written PD measurement is not going to stop online orders in the future.
    Last edited by m0002a; 07-31-2014 at 07:45 AM.

  4. #54
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    There are a billion links online.

    I think, from now on, when someone wants their p.d., I'll just say "google it".

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by drk View Post
    There are a billion links online.

    I think, from now on, when someone wants their p.d., I'll just say "google it".
    You seem to be skeptical about the online apps that can measure PD. Before you pass final judgment, my suggestion is to try it yourself. As Michael Corleone said "Keep you friends close, but keep your enemies closer."

  6. #56
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    PD/SchmeeD

    B

  7. #57
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    No, not skeptical. Happy to not be involved.

    It's a free country. Although it is unwise and probably illegal in some areas.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Santini View Post
    PD/SchmeeD

    B
    What!? NOW THEY WANT US TO RELEASE THE SCHMEE-D TOO?! I refuse!

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by drk View Post
    What!? NOW THEY WANT US TO RELEASE THE SCHMEE-D TOO?! I refuse!
    You spoke too soon doc....

    Reuters News 7/30/2014
    Breaking News; The FTC has just released some of it’s preliminary finding and recommendations for their new ruling titled “Eyeglass III”. Some of the changes noted are that all ECP’s will be required to release upon request a patient’s measurement called a “PD”. Furthermore Optometrists will be required to release the patient’s “Schmee-D” and also give a ”Diddly-Squat”when requested.
    Opticians are exempt from this ruling. Dr. Anus, chairman of the Board explained that since it’s not part of the typical Optician’s training, they will not be expected to give a Diddly-Squat.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by optical24/7 View Post
    You spoke too soon doc....

    Reuters News 7/30/2014

    Opticians are exempt from this ruling. Dr. Anus, chairman of the Board explained that since it’s not part of the typical Optician’s training, they will not be expected to give a Diddly-Squat.
    That is the best news I've heard in awhile. I, for one, am over burdened with fixing the dad burn do hickeys on the thingamajig.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by m0002a View Post
    In the US, an OD (or anyone who refracts) is required by law to give the patient a written copy of the Rx, and the patient may go elsewhere to get it dispensed (online or at a brick and mortar optical). That in itself creates a lot of opportunity for a patient to blame the OD/refractor if something goes wrong with the final product, and problems do sometimes happen since not all refractions are perfect (due to OD's fault or patient's fault). There is infinitely more opportunity for an OD to get blamed in this situation compared to just giving out the PD measurement, which is usually more straightforward (unless one is talking about near PD). When the law requiring patients to be given their Rx was first implemented, many predicted the end of the world and total chaos. Although there are sometimes problems with this legal requirement, most people in the optical industry have adapted to it, and the world did not come to an end.

    As I mentioned several time already, there are websites that allow one to upload a photograph that will accurately measure PD. Hoya uses the same technology with the their iPad app used for the MyStyle customization measurements (which also measures panto, vertex, etc). The optical industry had better start getting prepared for this, because failure to have a written PD measurement is not going to stop online orders in the future.
    The best way to stop them is to dispense the specs yourself! We work on having a good rep so that people barely consider the alternatives - or if they do, they know we can do a better job.

    If I was a consumer, I'd probably like the option of not having to sit down with a 'salesperson' who might make me spend more than I had planned, so online would be an attractive avenue. Given that a PD is one of the simpler measurements to take, it doesn't surprise me that there a lots of places to have it measured electronically - there's always 'an app for that'.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Santini View Post
    PD/SchmeeD

    B
    AgreeD, Euclid, the father of Geometry; for whom we can thank for the mathematical foundation of our industry, was around some 2200 years ago, give or take a century or two. In the span of that time our industry has grown exponentially, is it not unreasonable to define today's method/terminology of lens placement into an ophthalmic system as something more than just, the archaic term PD. It seems obvious to many on the board that lens fabrication goes beyond, IPD's. Why are we allowing these on-line entities to define the art of opticianry into a singular term, PD. It begs the question, are we now being reduced to the taker of PD's.
    Last edited by Paul Smith LDO; 07-31-2014 at 06:50 PM.

  13. #63
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    For a chance at adequate glasses, the RX and PD is all you need.

    B

  14. #64
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    In limited cases.

  15. #65
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    If it's adequate/inadequate eyewear that they require, then these entities should stop fooling the public and cease to ask for a PD.

  16. #66
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    Entities should shut up.

    But, if entities must talk, they should link to one of many Youtube tutorials on measuring their own danged p.d.

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    Quote Originally Posted by m0002a View Post
    Only when people make preposterous claims that a patient is going to blame an OD/optician for an online purchase that didn't work out, just because they gave them the PD. There may be legitimate reasons why you may not want to provide a PD for free so someone can order online, but that one is a bit far-fetched IMO.

    Nice deflection, but....anyone having difficulty will blame the closest, accessible, available and most vulnerable. Oh, and BTW,online eyewear, are not considered dispensed, as you stated. At most they are self-dispensed, as in self-injection is accomplished with a needle, with no professional assistance.
    Eyes wide open

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncut View Post
    Nice deflection, but....anyone having difficulty will blame the closest, accessible, available and most vulnerable.
    Anyone? All the time? OK, I understand why an ECP doesn't want to give PD information to a patient that lets them walk out the door and shop elsewhere, but I think this line of reasoning (ECP will get blamed if patient not satisfied with eyewear purchased online) is getting out of control. Also, at no time did I suggest that a PD measurement be taken for free.

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    Funnily enough, I had a case germane to this thread today. A previous pt of mine, who had previously told me he was thinking of buying online because his mate told him he was a mug for paying optometrist prices, came in with some online specs.

    He joined the NZ Automobile Association, so he could get a free eye exam from Specsavers. He took his free rx away, went online and bought a pair of progs from Zenni, using their online widget to measure PD (Specsavers evidently don't supply it). The new glasses came back, but they're not working like his old ones from us, and he wants us to see what the problem is. The problem is, mate, you're a (fill in the blank).

    Just on PD, he's actually symmetrical, so I would have considered him a good candidate for using an online cowboy calculator. He got 62, when he's actually 59. There was apparently no option for mono PD input, which won't be great for most people.
    Last edited by Fezz; 08-01-2014 at 08:25 AM. Reason: Naughty word removed!

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    Quote Originally Posted by m0002a View Post
    Anyone? All the time? OK, I understand why an ECP doesn't want to give PD information to a patient that lets them walk out the door and shop elsewhere, but I think this line of reasoning (ECP will get blamed if patient not satisfied with eyewear purchased online) is getting out of control. Also, at no time did I suggest that a PD measurement be taken for free.
    Out of control in what way? The way we discuss it on the forum, or have you seen this become a problem in 'real life'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Dagg View Post
    There was apparently no option for mono PD input
    Herein lies the problem.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Dagg View Post
    Funnily enough, I had a case germane to this thread today. A previous pt of mine, who had previously told me he was thinking of buying online because his mate told him he was a mug for paying optometrist prices, came in with some online specs.

    He joined the NZ Automobile Association, so he could get a free eye exam from Specsavers. He took his free rx away, went online and bought a pair of progs from Zenni, using their online widget to measure PD (Specsavers evidently don't supply it). The new glasses came back, but they're not working like his old ones from us, and he wants us to see what the problem is. The problem is, mate, you're a (fill in the blank).

    Just on PD, he's actually symmetrical, so I would have considered him a good candidate for using an online cowboy calculator. He got 62, when he's actually 59. There was apparently no option for mono PD input, which won't be great for most people.
    You talk funny. I LIKE IT!
    Last edited by Fezz; 08-01-2014 at 08:27 AM. Reason: Naughty word removed!

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by standarduck View Post
    Out of control in what way? The way we discuss it on the forum, or have you seen this become a problem in 'real life'?
    As I said, online ordering may start to become a problem for some ECP who loose business to online opticals, but I don't think a patient blaming the B&M optical for a bad online experience is a serious problem. The reason why ECP's don't want to give out the PD is because they think they will loose business (they obviously could), not because they are concerned about being blamed for a bad online buying experience by patient. I don't think many OD's would voluntarily give out the Rx unless they were required to do so by the government.

    I think it is time for honestly on this subject. There is nothing wrong about admitting we all work for a living and expect to get paid for our efforts. Not many can afford to work for free, and I never suggested that happen.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Dagg View Post
    Funnily enough, I had a case germane to this thread today. A previous pt of mine, who had previously told me he was thinking of buying online because his mate told him he was a mug for paying optometrist prices, came in with some online specs.

    He joined the NZ Automobile Association, so he could get a free eye exam from Specsavers. He took his free rx away, went online and bought a pair of progs from Zenni, using their online widget to measure PD (Specsavers evidently don't supply it). The new glasses came back, but they're not working like his old ones from us, and he wants us to see what the problem is. The problem is, mate, you're a (fill in the blank).

    Just on PD, he's actually symmetrical, so I would have considered him a good candidate for using an online cowboy calculator. He got 62, when he's actually 59. There was apparently no option for mono PD input, which won't be great for most people.
    I am not advocating online eyewear purchases, nor advocating self PD measurements. But I did express my opinion that if a patient used a PD provided by a B&M ECP during an online purchase, it is unlikely that the patient could blame the B&M ECP if patient not satisfied with the eyewear.

    Since you apparently did not supply the PD to previous patient who purchased online, I don't understand what your story has to do with anything I said, or why you would make personal attacks me.

  24. #74
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    m002a, you don't think that a personal injury lawyer would eat everyone in the food chain for lunch if there were a product liability tort or personal injury tort, from the prescriber to the optician to the seller to the laboratory? They would indeed, to gather every dollar they could.

    Don't you think if 4yo Johnny got his -2.50 cyl axis 180 degrees off and develops amblyopia, they're coming after everyone?

    You're being a little too reasonable, sir. You must not understand what happens out there in this world. Talk to a malpractice attorney sometime and see what they think.

    I, for one, will not risk my career and assets to share care with an unknown online entity. I certainly will not release any more than I am absolutely forced to.

    Just the risk of the hassle of dealing with a tort alone is not worth messing with.
    Last edited by drk; 08-01-2014 at 08:52 AM.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by m0002a View Post
    Since you apparently did not supply the PD to previous patient who purchased online, I don't understand what your story has to do with anything I said, or why you would make personal attacks me.
    I don't believe that a personal attack was made on you. I believe that Fred Dagg was describing the "customer" not you.

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