Hoya MyStyle Strange Experience

[m0002a]

I just had some progressives made for my personal use. This time I wanted to try the Hoya Id MyStyle fully customized lens that I could recommend instead of the Zeiss ID 2. In particular I wanted to see if I could get a MyStyle lens that would be equivalent to a Zeiss ID 2I (with large intermediate area).

As I am sure most people know, Zeiss has the ID 2 (balanced), ID 2I (wide intermediate), and ID 2N (enhanced near vision). Obviously, the 2I is a long corridor soft design, and the 2N is a short corridor hard design.

The Hoya MyStyle doesn’t have these separate predefined categories like the Zeiss ID 2, but asks the patient to prioritize a set of activities and then comes up with a fully customized solution for them. At the end of the customer selection process, the Hoya web app comes up with the design. There are 15 categories to choose from, and the patient must select at least 5 of them, rating them form 1 to 5 stars in terms of importance. The 15 activities are, Golfing, Office, Driving, Reading, Arts, Music, Board Games, Shopping, Nightlife, Outdoor Activities, Computer Use, House Hold, Sports, Traveling, and TV. There is no explanation given as to which ones require near, intermediate, or far vision. Some are obvious (Reading, Driving, etc) but many are ambiguous (Office, Art, Nightlife, Shopping). Since I was forced to rate at least 5 activities, that meant I was guessing on some of them.

Since I wanted a wide intermediate for the MyStyle lenses to emulate the Zeiss ID 2I, I selected Computer Use at the most important (5 stars). Then I tried to select some other activities that I "thought" would require intermediate vision such as Office, and Arts, and then threw in some distance stuff like Driving and TV. I rated all of these (besides Computer Use) as 3 or 4 stars. I did not even select Reading at all. I was forced to come up with 5 selections out the 15 options, so I had to pick some activities that I was not sure how the software would interpret them.

The Hoya computer web app came back with the following design:

• A particularly large reading area
• Remarkably short transition from reading to far vision
• Generous distance area

It further said that this design would provide me with the following benefits:

• Excellent support for reading and other close-up activities
• Fast transition from near to far vision

Obviously (as I explained above) this is exactly the opposite of what I was trying to achieve. The computed design was the equivalent of the Zeiss 2N, not the Zeiss 2I. I may have not understood whether some of my selections required near or intermediate vision in their terminology (Arts, Office), but they don’t explain that on the website app. BTW, the frame depth was 38 and my fitting height was 24.5 (Autoflex 47).

I finally gave up and just got the Hoya LifeStyle 2 Harmony. These turned out to be a very good balanced lens (at least as good as Zeiss ID 2, IMO), but Hoya does not offer a version of the LifeStyle 2 that has wide intermediate (2I) like the Zeiss ID. And obviously the fully customizable MyStyle is just playing a guessing game with whoever wrote the computer program to figure out what the patient really wants. It seems to me that Hoya is killing themselves with making the process overly complicated in the case of the MyStyle, and overly simplified in the case of the LifeStyle 2, which only comes in Harmony, or Clarity versions (a hard design with good distance), but nothing like the Zeiss 2I with large intermediate.

[Robert_S]

The harmony design has better intermediate than the individual... It's what Hoya does best. Obviously though, not 100%of people will find that.

[kentmitchell1961]

I've had a good success rate with the mystyle, I still like my auto I a tad better, but could be because I've been wearing them for a lot longer....

[m0002a]

I've had a good success rate with the mystyle, I still like my auto I a tad better, but could be because I've been wearing them for a lot longer....

How do you handle the customization questions? Do you let the patient make the choices or do you ask them questions and then make the choices for them (1-5 stars on at least 5 categories).

Have you ever been surprised that the software came up with a short-corridor/hard design when you thought the patient would do best with a long corridor soft design (or any other such surprises)?

[m0002a]

The harmony design has better intermediate than the individual... It's what Hoya does best. Obviously though, not 100%of people will find that.

Perhaps, but does the Hoya Lifestyle 2 Harmony have a better intermediate than the Zeiss ID 2I ?

[kentmitchell1961]

How do you handle the customization questions? Do you let the patient make the choices or do you ask them questions and then make the choices for them (1-5 stars on at least 5 categories).

Have you ever been surprised that the software came up with a short-corridor/hard design when you thought the patient would do best with a long corridor soft design (or any other such surprises)?

I have fun with the questions, and have found that most people will choose many of the same activites, computer, business, driving ect, so get very similar results.

[Nobody77]

There is a new MyStyle V+ lens out with a new Hoya iDentifier support which may give you a bit more customization options :)

[m0002a]

There is a new MyStyle V+ lens out with a new Hoya iDentifier support which may give you a bit more customization options :)

MyStyle V+ looks like the name they use outside the USA, but the MyStyle V+ and MyStyle appear to be the same. It is highly customizable, but my point is that it is very hard to control the customization to achieve a specific design objective in the same way that Zeiss does with the ID 2 (balanced), ID 2I (wide intermediate), and ID 2N (wide near). Instead, the MyStyle configurator asks the questions I mentioned above (patient must prioritize at least 5 of the 15 activities with 1-5 stars for each), but when I did that I got exactly the opposite of what I was expecting. I wanted a long corridor soft design with a wide intermediate, but the configurator chose a short corridor fast design with wide reading area and narrow intermediate. I explained above what activities I chose and how I ranked them.

I guess I am not explaining myself well, since not many here seem to understand what I am talking about.

[Robert Martellaro]

MyStyle V+ looks like the name they use outside the USA, but the MyStyle V+ and MyStyle appear to be the same. It is highly customizable, but my point is that it is very hard to control the customization to achieve a specific design objective in the same way that Zeiss does with the ID 2 (balanced), ID 2I (wide intermediate), and ID 2N (wide near). Instead, the MyStyle configurator asks the questions I mentioned above (patient must prioritize at least 5 of the 15 activities with 1-5 stars for each), but when I did that I got exactly the opposite of what I was expecting. I wanted a long corridor soft design with a wide intermediate, but the configurator chose a short corridor fast design with wide reading area and narrow intermediate. I explained above what activities I chose and how I ranked them.

I guess I am not explaining myself well, since not many here seem to understand what I am talking about.

I remember when Rodenstock would let you choose the zone widths by manipulating software 'sliders', one each for zone widths and one for corridor length. It was pretty cool- max out the intermediate width slider and the corridor would go crazy long and the distance and near widths would shrink like arctic ice. If you want more choices, talk to Peter at http://identityoptical.com

[m0002a]

I remember when Rodenstock would let you choose the zone widths by manipulating software 'sliders', one each for zone widths and one for corridor length. It was pretty cool- max out the intermediate width slider and the corridor would go crazy long and the distance and near widths would shrink like arctic ice. If you want more choices, talk to Peter at http://identityoptical.com

The Rodenstock solution sounds interesting.

I would actually be fine with only having 3 choices available, such as the way Zeiss ID works (ID-2, ID-2I, or ID-2N). But I wanted to try Hoya since I had heard good things about them. Even though the Hoya MyStyle is extremely customizable, freeform front and back, even beyond the 3 categories offered by Zeiss, I could not figure out how to get the desired results by answering the questions asked by the computer software (rating at least 5 out of 15 activities from 1-5 stars in order of importance as described in my first post). In other words, there appeared to be no easily understood correlation between what is desired (wide reading area versus wide intermediate) and the patient responses to the general questions. As I mentioned above, I rated "computer use" the highest, didn't even select "reading" as one of the 5 choices, and the software came up with something equivalent to the Zeiss 2N !!!

I don't know if Hoya thinks opticians are too stupid to understand the difference between short-corridor/fast design versus a long corroder/soft design, and when each is appropriate, and think it is better to just ask the patient to rate the 15 activities. I am just saying that it seems difficult to directly correlate the resulting design that the Hoya software chooses for the lens with the answers to the questions provided by the patient (as I explained above). So in effect there is too much customization with the MyStyle, and the results of the customized design don't necessarily correlate with what the patient (or optician) wants in their lenses.

[Robert Martellaro]

In other words, there appeared to be no easily understood correlation between what is desired (wide reading area versus wide intermediate) and the patient responses to the general questions. As I mentioned above, I rated "computer use" the highest, didn't even select "reading" as one of the 5 choices, and the software came up with something equivalent to the Zeiss 2N !!!

Yup, it's a big mystery. The ambiguity is inappropriate for ophthalmic optics.

I don't know if Hoya thinks opticians are too stupid to understand the difference between short-corridor/fast design versus a long corroder/soft design, and when each is appropriate, and think it is better to just ask the patient to rate the 15 activities.

They think it, because it's true.

[Nobody77]

MyStyle V+ looks like the name they use outside the USA, but the MyStyle V+ and MyStyle appear to be the same. It is highly customizable, but my point is that it is very hard to control the customization to achieve a specific design objective in the same way that Zeiss does with the ID 2 (balanced), ID 2I (wide intermediate), and ID 2N (wide near). Instead, the MyStyle configurator asks the questions I mentioned above (patient must prioritize at least 5 of the 15 activities with 1-5 stars for each), but when I did that I got exactly the opposite of what I was expecting. I wanted a long corridor soft design with a wide intermediate, but the configurator chose a short corridor fast design with wide reading area and narrow intermediate. I explained above what activities I chose and how I ranked them.

I guess I am not explaining myself well, since not many here seem to understand what I am talking about.

Hello m0002a,

I think you are explaining yourself well enough, perhaps I just didn't give the proper answer :D I am indeed not from the USA, yet there is a difference between a MyStyle (available since 2008) and a MyStyle V+ (available since 2013 -that is available in Europe).

While what you describe sounds like the original 2008 version (where you pick out of 15 activities) in the new improved version of the Hoya iDentifier the customer can choose where he/she spends her day (outside vs inside) according to this decision he/she gets 5 activities offered and choose their importance, if they mark some as "important enough" (on a 0-5 scale) they are asked an additional question. For example if they choose car driving is important, they are asked what car they drive... Traditional car, motorcycle, bus, truck or even a train :) And so on..

While the original design had 3 main design variations (open, clear, balance) with 3 possible corridors (11,14,16) the new MyStyle V+ has 65 main design variations with corridor length from 11 to 16mm and deals with many problems including anisometropic prescriptions and related problems.

If you want to know more details about the Technology "inside" the lens, you can watch this video: (jump to 30min for technical explanation or watch the whole movie if you like :) )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxoBvcYIJpo

Cheers :)

[m0002a]

Hello m0002a,

I think you are explaining yourself well enough, perhaps I just didn't give the proper answer :D I am indeed not from the USA, yet there is a difference between a MyStyle (available since 2008) and a MyStyle V+ (available since 2013 -that is available in Europe).

While what you describe sounds like the original 2008 version (where you pick out of 15 activities) in the new improved version of the Hoya iDentifier the customer can choose where he/she spends her day (outside vs inside) according to this decision he/she gets 5 activities offered and choose their importance, if they mark some as "important enough" (on a 0-5 scale) they are asked an additional question. For example if they choose car driving is important, they are asked what car they drive... Traditional car, motorcycle, bus, truck or even a train :) And so on..

While the original design had 3 main design variations (open, clear, balance) with 3 possible corridors (11,14,16) the new MyStyle V+ has 65 main design variations with corridor length from 11 to 16mm and deals with many problems including anisometropic prescriptions and related problems.

If you want to know more details about the Technology "inside" the lens, you can watch this video: (jump to 30min for technical explanation or watch the whole movie if you like :) )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxoBvcYIJpo

I watched the entire video at the link you provided. There was extensive discussion about how the MyStyle V+ improves binocular vision (compared to other progressives), but there was no discussion about the software used by the patient to prioritize their activities to come up with the customized design for the lens. Obviously, there are other inputs that go into the customized design, such as the Rx, PD, fitting height, panto, wrap, etc. The Hoya software also asks about the patient's previous progressive lens brand/model and whether they were satisfied with it on a scale of 1-5.

What is not clear is what the Hoya software does with the information about the patient "activities" and how that translates into a particular design preference for far, intermediate, or near vision. Here is another post on this forum where someone else has the same concern I do:

I just ordered my Mystyle IDs yesterday. I found the present questionnaire somewhat offputting, as I found myself trying to second-guess the design's intent behind the questions.

You stated the "the original [MyStyle] design had 3 main design variations (open, clear, balance) with 3 possible corridors (11,14,16)." I am not sure if you are referring to the current MyStyle sold in the USA (without V+ designation), but I don't recall seeing any mention of those three design variations mentioned in Hoya documentation, but you could be right. Maybe someone from Hoya can explain the status of the MyStyle V+ as it pertains to USA availability.

As I have tried to explain, the goal of an optician should be to select the customized configuration that is aligned with what the customer wants in terms of prioritizing distance, intermediate, and near vision (since we can only improve one at the expense of the others on any give progressive lens). I don't believe that Hoya software questionnaire does that correctly, as I received a configuration exactly opposite of what I wanted (as explained in my first post). So more customization is not what I am asking for. In fact, I much prefer the Zeiss ID solution where the patient/optician selects one of three basic design: a balanced design (ID 2), large intermediate (ID 2I), or large near distance area (ID 2N). It shouldn't be anywhere near as complicated and error prone as Hoya is making it.

[erichwmack]

Maybe the software activities have different definitions of "office", and "art". Those could be throwing you off if they define those activities as more near than intermediate. Just a guess.

Also I have sold Hoya lenses extensively a couple years ago and they seemed to be satisfactory for my pts. Now I mostly use Auto III and my pts love them (cant wait to get a DUO demo). However, I have heard that Hoya lenses are designed to have longer but narrower near zone vs a wider shallower near like most lenses. The reason behind this is that Hoya is a Asian company at its roots and its customer base is primarily Asian. Thus, Asian (or is Oriental more correct?) writing everything is written vertically whereas Latin based writing is horizontal. They re-brand the lenses for Europe and North America but do not fundamentally change the design. Anyone, have personal experience with this theory? I don't wear progressive so I have never tested Hoya vs Zeiss vs Shamir in this regard.

[m0002a]

Maybe the software activities have different definitions of "office", and "art". Those could be throwing you off if they define those activities as more near than intermediate. Just a guess.

That is probably a good guess. I had to choose 5 of them, even though I didn't want to, so I had to guess at some of them. My point is why should anyone have to guess about this? It shouldn't be this convoluted.