semirimless w/ CR-39

[chaoticneutral]

Hey there Optiboard goers. Ive been in the industry for 12 years or so and Im working at a new Optical. The lab manager has an unwritten Bi-law that ALL semirimless must be in poly. Now, that's cool, this aint my house Im not here to create turbulence, we all need to get along, lets sing coombiya around the bonfire.

My prior experience (5 years at lenscrafters, 2 years in whole sale lab, 5 years in the clipon game at 1-800-clip-ons, 5 years in private optometry) tells me that you can put CR-39 into a semirimless as long as the ET is 2.1 or greater. (Yes if you add all that up you get more then 12 years but I worked 2 jobs most of my life so aint no thang) I like 2.5 myself. Its a nice fat edge that wont chip, which is what my current lab manager says will happen if we put plastic lenses into a semi rimless. CLEARLY she is the lab manager and, even though I lost a sale because the customer did not want to buy the poly upgrade which my office charges WAY to much for, I will continue to sell semi rimless with poly only as a material option.


Just to be clear, yes, I could put it in trivex but we charge more for trivex then poly.


So, truebelivers, Im just looking for your experience with cr-39 and semirimless and unseasoned inflexible inexperienced lab managers. (I mean that in the nicest possible way)

Kindest regards

[CCGREEN]

Sometimes its just a "control" thing for those in the management position and you just have to accept it as it is. Or yet it could be a lack of experience for them.
None the less, yes as long as there is reasonable edge thickness there is no reason you cannot put CR-39 into a semi rimless. With lots of thickness you could even put it in a drill mount, not that I would do it though.
Yes if the edge is to thin it will chip very easy so you for sure would want to use polycarbonate material.
If I use CR-39 I apply a 1/3 2/3, and a good pin bevel rule. Meaning when grooved put the groove 1/3 back from the front edge of the lens and if you have at least another 2/3rds more material to the back edge of the lens, you should be able to get a good safety bevel on it and it should work well. But for sure a accident can happen.

[mdeimler]

People aren't careful enough...don't bother creating yourself more problems.

[chaoticneutral]

People aren't careful enough...don't bother creating yourself more problems.

Kumbaya my Lord, kumbaya

[mshimp]

On drill/compression mounts no if ands or butts it has to be poly or trivex or an occasional hi-index. For semi-rimless we allow cr-39, but do recommend the other materials first.

[Don Gilman]

Been doing it since they first came out, even when they had the real thin wire in the groove. if you don't have a good pin bevel on the front there is a small risk of flaking when you stretch the string...other than that no trouble.

[Iheartglasses]

I was surprised to have this "rule" at my current place of employment. I understand why they want patients in trivex/poly but if the patient is complaining about price, I would like to give them the option. I won't fuss but I did question and ask "even if the edge thickness is 2.0+?" Oh well.

[MakeOptics]

So, truebelivers, Im just looking for your experience with cr-39 and semirimless and unseasoned inflexible inexperienced lab managers. (I mean that in the nicest possible way)

Kindest regards

So do you want a response if it's not in agreement?

[MakeOptics]

yes as long as there is reasonable edge thickness

Thats the reason why poly or trivex is to be used on all lenses in our office that are semi rimless. I minimize many of the trivial decisions so the process of selling eye wear is simple and seamless. Material decision here can means the difference between satisfied or ****** off patient. Let the client pay the extra few dollars to get a stronger more durable pair. I also wonder if anyone takes "their duty to warn" seriously, because they shouldn't really be offered CR-39 in a rimless knowing that chips happen more often then any other style mounting and those chips can injure the eye.

[Chad Sobodash]

Always recommend trivex for drill/compression. I wouldn't even offer the other materials if I wasn't currently at a chain optical that can't order trivex. As it stands, poly only for drill mounts, maybe 1.6 if necessary. But for a semi-rimless, we have an on-site lab that has no problem surfacing some CR-39 and putting it into a semi-rimless. I don't know why they wouldn't do it, other than inexperience and fear.

[chaoticneutral]

So do you want a response if it's not in agreement?

You bet I do

As a matter of fact my office manager printed out a 12 page dissertation from this forum from 2012 about this exact thing. It was full of Poly is good for semirimless but trivex is better because the tensile strength is 61.2 but 1.60 is better then trivex because the tensile strenght is 80.5. The next 12 pages were the posts about how people were still using CR-39 for drillmounts (which is dumb). So im happy to hear everything from everyone.

**this comment has been removed due to its shocking nature.

Cheers

[Uncle Fester]

Does your lab warranty against chipping or is there a one time one year redo policy in place?

[SeaU2020]

Some people will not go for the material upgrade.....I specify 2.2 edge thickess on the lab orders for semi-rimless for CR-39. I also specify that poly was declined on my paperwork and inform the patient chips are not covered under warranty. Then I pre-adjust the frame to avoid problems at dispense.
Drill mounts HAVE to be in trivex, poly or 1.67....if a patient can't afford the material upgrade, they can't afford 3-piece eyewear.

[chaoticneutral]

Does your lab warranty against chipping or is there a one time one year redo policy in place?

Yes they offer a one year one time warranty if the frame is a plastic semirimless and not a metal semirimless like the Ovo frames (i forget what there called)

[MakeOptics]

You bet I do

As a matter of fact my office manager printed out a 12 page dissertation from this forum from 2012 about this exact thing. It was full of Poly is good for semirimless but trivex is better because the tensile strength is 61.2 but 1.60 is better then trivex because the tensile strenght is 80.5. The next 12 pages were the posts about how people were still using CR-39 for drillmounts (which is dumb). So im happy to hear everything from everyone.

The point is my lab manager has a 350 horse power stick up her.....rear. You'll have to forgive me, but I do love an open forum where I can vent.

Cheers

My philosophy on the topic comes from a management perspective, I chose a rule where no CR is allowed because the staff and their training as well as ability to explain concepts to a patients come from all over the place. I here all the time the following:

I have been an optician for XX years.
I have worked in XXXXX lab.
I have my ABO.

But I also see:

+8.00 and above in a large grooved rimless frame.
High minus frames decentered more than 10mm per eye.
etc.

The list coul dgo on in both the confidence in their ability as well as the severity in blunders. I could choose to constantly educate over and over on topics which I have done in the past. I can choose to make nomograms which give almost every conceivable scenario and what to do and what not to do which I have also done. I can chose to make a rule that encompasses the problem and the non-problems all under one simple rule. That's why I chose to make a rule about poly/trivex fro all semi rimless and for all rimless as well. Clients will pay the extra charges, this I know for a fact or they'll find another frame. Every now and again I get a staff member who will compute the ET in multiple meridians and even give me a specific ET or CT to order and then ask if we can do it in CR-39. Usually I say sure why not, but if you want an easier faster smoother experience just offer poly/trivex, if the patient complains you have an easy out, "it's the bosses rule". Often times it's the opticians grievance with not being able to make whatever decision they want.

Oh and BTW it's a low cost option is not a valid excuse for CR-39 in our office, we see many low vision patients and the entire staff understands that an eye is worth more then the upgrade to prevent chipping.

I kinda understood that it was more venting, but there is a reason why there is a rule and probably also a reason why she's got that big stick about this rule. I hope I conveyed the why in this post.

[Uncle Fester]

Yes they offer a one year one time warranty if the frame is a plastic semirimless and not a metal semirimless like the Ovo frames (i forget what there called)

So if you had a bonus based on keeping the no charge re do's down...

Just say'n...

[chaoticneutral]

My philosophy on the topic comes from a management perspective, I chose a rule where no CR is allowed because the staff and their training as well as ability to explain concepts to a patients come from all over the place. I here all the time the following:

I have been an optician for XX years.
I have worked in XXXXX lab.
I have my ABO.

But I also see:

+8.00 and above in a large grooved rimless frame.
High minus frames decentered more than 10mm per eye.
etc.

The list coul dgo on in both the confidence in their ability as well as the severity in blunders. I could choose to constantly educate over and over on topics which I have done in the past. I can choose to make nomograms which give almost every conceivable scenario and what to do and what not to do which I have also done. I can chose to make a rule that encompasses the problem and the non-problems all under one simple rule. That's why I chose to make a rule about poly/trivex fro all semi rimless and for all rimless as well. Clients will pay the extra charges, this I know for a fact or they'll find another frame. Every now and again I get a staff member who will compute the ET in multiple meridians and even give me a specific ET or CT to order and then ask if we can do it in CR-39. Usually I say sure why not, but if you want an easier faster smoother experience just offer poly/trivex, if the patient complains you have an easy out, "it's the bosses rule". Often times it's the opticians grievance with not being able to make whatever decision they want.

Oh and BTW it's a low cost option is not a valid excuse for CR-39 in our office, we see many low vision patients and the entire staff understands that an eye is worth more then the upgrade to prevent chipping.

I kinda understood that it was more venting, but there is a reason why there is a rule and probably also a reason why she's got that big stick about this rule. I hope I conveyed the why in this post.

I love the way you think. Its a logic I can follow and its management like this that makes an office run smooth and simple. A lot of the trouble comes from robotic autonomous movements though mundane repetitive tasks. That's when mistakes happen. If you don't pay attention to the detail of each sale individually then you run into your problems. It sounds like your a good boss. God bless the flexible for they bend, and do not break.

In this case it was a patient that just did not want to pay for the poly upgrade. No crazy rx's, just stubborn.

[chaoticneutral]

So if you had a bonus based on keeping the no charge re do's down...

Just say'n...

Bonus? spiffs? 15 min paid brakes on a 10 hour shift? not sure what that stuff is

[drk]

We operate like Make Optics does. KISS. Poly for everything, except those rare thickness circumstances where 1.67 is needed, or for compression mounts when we can get them into trivex or a higher index 1.67.

Poly is cheap, so cost shouldn't be a problem, but I know in some places it is.

[MakeOptics]

We operate like Make Optics does. KISS. Poly for everything, except those rare thickness circumstances where 1.67 is needed, or for compression mounts when we can get them into trivex or a higher index 1.67.

Poly is cheap, so cost shouldn't be a problem, but I know in some places it is.

Im not inflexible either on ocassion we have opticians that will do them in poly but they have earned that trust. To the rest of the staff they have a goal to achieve, I would say 2 other opticians in the office have that trust between 2 offices and 6 dispensers. I also have 2 that need a fine tooth comb for their orders but they are improving and they are young with potential. I always believe that if I do my job right I can be replaced by any staff member tommorow and the business wont even experience a glitch. I have put myself out of work a few times for thinking like this but the busines has been better for it. Where I currently work I have employers that treat us all like family which is rare, I give them everything and expect the rest of the staff to as well.

[Happylady]

I've done it but rarely.

[jefe]

Using poly in grooved rimless frames sometimes will result in cracking around the perimeter. I use CR-39, Trivex, 1.6, 1.67, and 1.70 -- and rarely use poly for grooved rimless. For low rxs, Trivex is the best. Yes, it's more expensive, but it's so much better.

[cocoisland58]

"Just so you know, if you choose this type of frame we will need to upgrade your lenses to a more durable material to prevent chipping". If they have already been admiring themselves in the mirror in a semi-rimless they will almost always say "Ok".

[Speed]

I love my polarized SGs but would never put a groove and tight string around them. That's like trying to de-laminate them. My choice would be a different type frame. Materials are not the ONLY alternative.

[standarduck]

"Just so you know, if you choose this type of frame we will need to upgrade your lenses to a more durable material to prevent chipping". If they have already been admiring themselves in the mirror in a semi-rimless they will almost always say "Ok".

Yeah, this. Patient needs to be aware nice and early. Not with a price, but with a warning.