I'm a big softie

[drk]

OK, Optiboarders, will you enlighten me?

I want a big, fat, sloppy, soft, bottom-heavy PAL design to use. (Think Kirstie Ally.) I don't care about the distance zone so much.

I want to use it for emmetropic people who are used to abusing their vision with OTC readers and come to me at +2.00 add time.

Balanced designs work so/so.

I'm thinking like the Sola Max, Sola One/HD, Access, maybe even the Shamir Office with an apropos degression.

I'm open to fancy-schmanchy digital designs, as long as they can be affordable.

Dish it! :)

[Uncle Fester]

Any lab know if the Ultavue 28 can still be found anywhere? Third world country??

That design was perfect for drk's request. Used to get patients who moved only to have their new ecp calling me wondering what the lens design was.

Otherwise the younger RD-40 with AR???

Another shot- I'm wearing the Shamir Workspace and they're wowing me around the office. Maybe a comp from Shamir to an employee emmetrope?

R +.50 -.50x80
L +1.00 -1.00x120
add +2.50 (because I crave that extra quarter my age says I don't need!)

[Judy Canty]

How about a VIP? Still made.

[drk]

I thought VIP were hardies. ??

[Slim]

what about the hoya iD lifestyle... ? when the rep showed me a blank the WHOLE BOTTOM looked like a read with the distortion vs a small hourglass swell on other designs? I had no idea those were like that and havent sold one yet since the visit...

[optilady1]

I have nothing to add, but I must say you made me laugh out loud drk.

[Dave Metzger]

what about the hoya iD lifestyle... ? when the rep showed me a blank the WHOLE BOTTOM looked like a read with the distortion vs a small hourglass swell on other designs? I had no idea those were like that and havent sold one yet since the visit...

NOOOOOO! ! ! ! I couldn't find the sweet spot.

[igirl]

OK, Optiboarders, will you enlighten me?

I want a big, fat, sloppy, soft, bottom-heavy PAL design to use. (Think Kirstie Ally.) I don't care about the distance zone so much.

I want to use it for emmetropic people who are used to abusing their vision with OTC readers and come to me at +2.00 add time.

Balanced designs work so/so.

I'm thinking like the Sola Max, Sola One/HD, Access, maybe even the Shamir Office with an apropos degression.

I'm open to fancy-schmanchy digital designs, as long as they can be affordable.

Dish it! :)

I sent you a pm

[Java99]

Shamir office. We use it for the omd patients whose docs told them to use OTC readers, but they want to see the computer AND the paper on the desk.

[Craig]

what about the hoya iD lifestyle... ? when the rep showed me a blank the WHOLE BOTTOM looked like a read with the distortion vs a small hourglass swell on other designs? I had no idea those were like that and havent sold one yet since the visit...

I just got a pair and they stink!!! They are the worst lens I have ever gotten and I have just spoken to 3 others who had the exact same issue; lens only works straight on, it is not a good product. The others are optical folks who are much smarter technically than me and we all had the exact same comments.

[Robert Martellaro]

I want to use it for emmetropic people who are used to abusing their vision with OTC readers and come to me at +2.00 add time.

Balanced designs work so/so.

These folks will need significant motivation before they'll abandon their SV readers. Some plus in the distance, a little less accommodation, frequents near tasks with or without multiple object distances, big pupils, poor lighting.

Task specific lenses for accountants and lawyers, 20/80 split adds for nurses and surgeons, a nice coated SV half-eye for avid readers/TV, are typically fitted in my shop. I screen the rest by trial framing until they cry uncle.

[MikeAurelius]

Old school ULTEX!!! WOO HOOO!!!!!

[drk]

These folks will need significant motivation before they'll abandon their SV readers. Some plus in the distance, a little less accommodation, frequents near tasks with or without multiple object distances, big pupils, poor lighting.

Parsing: Significant motivation = some hyperopia, getting more presbyopic, demand and near and/or intermediate, poor depth of focus, poor lighting. Totally agree!

Task specific lenses for accountants and lawyers, 20/80 split adds for nurses and surgeons, a nice coated SV half-eye for avid readers/TV, are typically fitted in my shop. I screen the rest by trial framing until they cry uncle.

Solutions: paper pushers get NVF lenses? For medical professionals that do procedures, larger zones with segmented MFs with 20% of the add in the distance portion (say, 1/2 D on a +2.50 presbyope and compensate the add -0.50)?

I'm I getting you?

[Java99]

What Robert said should count double if they use two monitors, triple if they're an engineer or air traffic controller. (I live too close to Lockheed Martin & Bell Helicopter.)

[Robert Martellaro]

Solutions: paper pushers get NVF lenses? For medical professionals that do procedures, larger zones with segmented MFs with 20% of the add in the distance portion (say, 1/2 D on a +2.50 presbyope and compensate the add -0.50)?

I'm I getting you?

Yes. In the OR, some older folks (age 50+) like one to three more clicks of plus 'on top' to see the monitors more clearly and comfortably. Nurses and GPs in that same age group are more ambulatory, and can't constantly switch between computer glasses and their general purpose eyeglasses, so a compromise is in order, similar in magnitude to the above. Trial framing is the key to judging how much extra plus they can accept while on the move. Chemistrie clips can also play a useful roll.

Back to your original question of PALs with wider near zones or 'big bottom' (remember the Spinal Tap song?). I have found very little subjective difference in the the width of the near and intermediate zones between general purpose PALs, about 10cm of clear vision on the horizontal plane at 40cm and 65cm, about what you might expect for a general purpose PAL and a moderate myope with a +2.25 add.

Can the near zone be made wider? Sure, maybe by 50% if you shorten the corridor and run a lot of the blur into the distance periphery, or you can shorten the corridor and make it harder, keeping the distance periphery clearer but introducing significant image swim. Some gain, some pain.

If I saw a lot of presbyopic emmetropes (I don't, thank goodness), I would make two or three trial pairs of PALs to help gauge their sensitivity to swim and the blur boundaries, and if I thought I had half a chance for success, I would put them in a PAL just for the convenience of not having to take the damn eyeglasses on and off all day long, supplemented with a task pair as needed.

[drk]

Good suggestions.

[Uncle Fester]

If I saw a lot of presbyopic emmetropes (I don't, thank goodness), I would make two or three trial pairs of PALs to help gauge their sensitivity to swim and the blur boundaries, and if I thought I had half a chance for success, I would put them in a PAL just for the convenience of not having to take the damn eyeglasses on and off all day long, supplemented with a task pair as needed.

The Workspace does this. I put it on around the office and take them off when I leave. Like any progressive the patient needs to work with the swim for a short while but it works for me anyway, remarkably well. Better than the Office.

Has anyone else tried them?

[Robert Martellaro]

The Workspace does this. I put it on around the office and take them off when I leave. Like any progressive the patient needs to work with the swim for a short while but it works for me anyway, remarkably well. Better than the Office.

The 'Workplace' probably has less plus on the primary gaze.

One of the problems with occupational PALs is the poor zone width on the primary gaze to about 5mm (10 degrees) below the primary gaze. Look at the difference between a standard PAL and an office PAL in the image below. You can also see why there would be more swim on the distance gaze with the occupational PAL compared to a general purpose PAL that has a generous distance zone.

Image from "The Optics of Occupational Progressive Lenses" - James Sheedy and Raymond Hardy

[Uncle Fester]

Thanks Robert and that's why I suggest it (Workspace) since I'm finding this lens does that much less than I would've expected.

Still wondering if any emmies have tried it?

[drk]

I don't like to kiss up to RM, but I tend to agree that most NVF lenses try to do too much.

[CathyO]

The workplace sounds promising I'm I'm glad to read some objective feedback on it. Thanks.

[Robert Martellaro]

I don't like to kiss up to RM,

No smooching from me either, but I've learned enough from you and other Optiboarders to offer hardy bear hugs to all.

but I tend to agree that most NVF lenses try to do too much.

It's that third zone, the distance/intermediate, that compromises the near/intermediate function. I've found that for most folks, a thoughtful redistribution of add power on an appropriate general purpose PAL, provides much more functionality, especially with regards to zone width at intermediate distances. Three monitors? No problem.

The cylinder plot of the old Shamir Office PAL below is typical of most occupational PALs. Looks like a Rorschach inkblot test plate. What do you see?!

The Access looks better, because it's essentially a SV reading lens, with a power of +1.89 D on the primary gaze, and +2.32 D 5mm below, with a zone width of 6.1mm and 7.1mm respectively, for a +2.50 add.

Images and data from the aforementioned study by Sheedy and Hardy.

[drk]

We go to town on the Access. It's cheap. It's poly. It's not covered as well as it should be on VCPs, these days.

And I know the Office is a mega-hit.

But I agree that, price not being a factor otherwise, a PAL with modified powers is best for intermediate viewing.

BTW, do you use a particular one?

[Robert Martellaro]

We go to town on the Access. It's cheap. It's poly. It's not covered as well as it should be on VCPs, these days.

And I know the Office is a mega-hit.

But I agree that, price not being a factor otherwise, a PAL with modified powers is best for intermediate viewing.

BTW, do you use a particular one?

Any modern standard corridor PAL with a generous distance zone width. Use the distance IPD and modify the fitting height -1 to -2 depending on screen size and height. The client must measure the object distance(s).

[drk]

Danke.