I have been trying to figure this VSP thing out. Could someone smarter than me read the link below for VSP's "Mission and Vision" and tell me what their mission and vision is?
https://vspglobal.com/cms/what-is-vs...on-vision.html
I have been trying to figure this VSP thing out. Could someone smarter than me read the link below for VSP's "Mission and Vision" and tell me what their mission and vision is?
https://vspglobal.com/cms/what-is-vs...on-vision.html
Because my points are based on facts that don't depend who states them, not incorrect or mis-stated opinions that can't be backed up or are simply spit out and never actually discussed. Sarcasm and opinions aren't helping fellow posters understand things better nor are the able to benefit from them in ways that can help their business. Perhaps that's interesting to some, but I prefer to contribute with some more financially rewarding points should members choose to use them. Your mileage may vary.Originally Posted by Johns
Race,
Good luck to you and your practice and great for you that you can find VSP so lucrative. If it weren't so atypical you would find less responders to your posts. Is it possible that what you assert as fact is particular to your unique experience though? And if it isn't, why have so many taken exception? I am only an optician, and as owner of my practice I employ an OD - so VSP refuses to deal with me directly (although I have found ways to get blood from that stone). So our experiences are absolutely different. In light of this, I know little of the special programs VSP offers that you allude to. But best of luck and continued success with your managed care.
Two people can look at a set of "facts" and come up with entirely different "opinions". Same with the experiences people have with products or services. Just read the discussions on this board regarding edgers.
Why can you not accept the experiences optiboarders have had with VSP? You are trying to make a gray issue black and white. You seem to know how to play the game with VSP, but instead of sharing this on optiboard (which is what this board is about), you dismiss those who have not had a positive experience.
I would not dismiss the opinions of opticians out of hand. It has been my experience that an OD respecting the optician is a best practice in an optical shop. If an OD is partnered with top notch opticians, you get leverage and that produces results that can benefit both.
I am not trying to be disrespectful. You seem to know a lot about running a profitable practice that is based upon managed care reimbursements and for that, I am respectful of your point of view.
First, thanks for the reply Jason. Never any disrespect by my posts intended either. Just felt that needed said. In terms of atypical, I find that hard to believe. I've been to many events and involved in many discussions whereby lots of VSP Practices are benefiting and working their programs. The fact that their products have become so prevalent in the marketplace among VSP Practices and they continue to expand the business as they have is proof of that. If it weren't working they wouldn't continue to invest and others wouldn't continue to complain so much about said expansion. Just talk to any of the competitive vendors, they are absolutely seeing it. To those that haven't experienced such success with them, that's on them as a business owner or partner. They have a role in that too.
Absolutely my experiences and that of others is why the success and profitability is seen. As to why have so many taken exception....that's a question for them not me. My guess is they are not familiar with the programs, how they can benefit from them or simply choose not to. Again, to each there own. VSP and managed care overall on this board are not terms that go over well. Perhaps becuse there are so many non panel providers here or simply those that choose to not support hem. Again, all questions for the begrudged.Is it possible that what you assert as fact is particular to your unique experience though? And if it isn't, why have so many taken exception?
Not all of the programs are then available to you, but several are. I would offer that you need to reach out to their reps from the lab or frames to find out how you can play ball and make money with their offerings. Just because you're not a panel provider doesn't mean the products and some of their programs won't apply. They do.In light of this, I know little of the special programs VSP offers that you allude to. But best of luck and continued success with your managed care.
Stan, I'm absolutely open to accepting their experiences so long as they truely are willing to discuss things in details. To say one can't make money with VSP is not sufficient of a statement to be considered a fact. It's an experience, but poor one. I'm not wrong for stating that if you can't then "you're doing it wrong". I've even pointed out with numbers how that is incorrect. I've said it before, it's by their choice they aren't profitable if by their choice they choose not to work the programs and benefit from the material or dispensing reimbursements offered. That's on them and yes, I can accept that so long as it's not continued to be presented as a blanket statement. I'm not defending VSP or MC when I say that, I'm defending open and honest conversation and points. I won't accept BS.
How is the issue gray? Programs exist, we make choices, results occur. Pretty simple. I've shared how to do this on this board many time. I ask a ton of questions to those that have not had positive experiences and with little to no really engaged responses back except from those trying to disparage me. If ANYONE has a question relevant to how to make money with managed care or my experiences with VSP, just ask. Respect in return when I ask questions that one takes the time to actually answer or discuss the matter. Many do not, thus I call BS and with solid ground to do so I feel. That's not directed at you mind you, just overall.You are trying to make a gray issue black and white. You seem to know how to play the game with VSP, but instead of sharing this on optiboard (which is what this board is about), you dismiss those who have not had a positive experience.
I would agree.If an OD is partnered with top notch opticians, you get leverage and that produces results that can benefit both.
I'm not either Stan and said respect of opinions in return. I do apologize however if I demand of others facts to back up opinions and to me that sometimes perhaps can come across harsh, but so be it. I welcome opinions, but the respect part comes if they are supported by open discussion and facts vs many who leave comments and walk away.I am not trying to be disrespectful. You seem to know a lot about running a profitable practice that is based upon managed care reimbursements and for that, I am respectful of your point of view.
Thanks to all for a heated but respectful thread.
I think what a lot of people have a hard time separating is that what a cash patient would pay, vs what a patient w/insurance will pay, are vastly different. this is ALL insurances, not just VSP. And your margins will be higher on the cash patients regardless, even if you give them heavy discounts. When you consider your business in margin, rather than volume, the insurance patients bring in considerably less money. IF you are not a high volume practice, that makes it feel like you are making even less money. Sometimes, it truly doesn't matter how good your opticians and doctors are, patients will go where they spend less money. When we run into patients with eyemed plans we do not take, they will 9 times out of 10 go to one of the three places down the street that does. Then brings up the argument of whether or not taking insurance is worth it, because you make less, but would these people be coming to your practice otherwise? and the vicious cycle of open ended questions and arguments continues.
Race, i think if you actually shared some of these secrets you seem to have that help you make hundreds of thousands of VSP dollars every year you would be greeted with a lot less hostility and arguments. You say that all of what you tell us is based on fact, but it would be nice if you told us how to apply some of these tactics to our own practices so maybe we can all hop on the VSP money train. My practice takes an incredible amount of vision insurance, so i personally would love to hear some of these pearls of wisdom you say you have. That's what the board is for, to help eachother out.
"what i need is a strong drink and a peer group." ... Douglas Adams - Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy
Fair is fair. If YOU, the practice want a contractually-based advantage in the form of being in the pool of local potential providers, you have to "pay" ( in the form of lower margins) for this benefit.
Period.
B
honestly if i had my druthers i would stop taking insurance, cut all of my prices in half, and actually be able to compete with the marts of the world. but its not my business, therefore not my decision. so i'm open to learning as much as i can about soaking the vision plans for all they're worth.
"what i need is a strong drink and a peer group." ... Douglas Adams - Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy
I like this post.
I didn't go around selling vision plans to employer and health insurance groups, but someone did. As such, most of the lives around here are members of vision plans.
There are advantages to living in a vision care world, but "tons of money" is not one of them. But you can't ever be sure. It's unclear as to whether people would spend money on vision care these days if they didn't essentially have it deducted from their paycheck. It's like a subsidy to the vision care industry.
As sad as the economy is right now, I'm happy to have volume, even at low reimbursements, but that's just me.
Agree, though, that vision care plans have created a bit of a price bubble. But anything that inserts itself between a buyer and seller tends to do that. For example, health insurance. For example, borrowing to make a car purchase. For example, borrowing for college tuition. For example, redistribution of wealth via taxes. All things that "soften the blow" or reduce transparency of the price of a good or service.
For an economy to function at peak efficiency the transactions should be at the most basic buyer-seller level with ample information to make informed choices.
There are some people that have the right population and circumstances to be able to run a profitable business without taking insurance. Unfortunately here if we decided not to take insurance we would be lucky to have 1 patient walk in a day.
Also a good point Dr K ... i think insurance has actually hurt the healthcare market more than its helped us to be honest. We take it in order to compete and get patient flow, with about 7 different opticals in our area (all of which either take insurance or are the evil marts of the world, all of which within about .5 miles from my office) we need every edge that we can. It kills me to take the lower margin, but i'll do what i have to, i'd rather be able to employ my staff than try to be picky about my clientele. i'm happy to take anyone's moneyagain, it just kills me that this race character won't share his money making secrets with us.
p.s. your last sentence gave me the warm fuzzies.
"what i need is a strong drink and a peer group." ... Douglas Adams - Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy
I'm not a fan of VSP, and I don't know Race to have an opinion, but in all fairness, Race has give out more "secrets" than I ever would have. I mean, he/she's practically given you a manual on VSP.
I agree. He's already told you how to work VSP.
i did just reread everything in this thread to make sure i'm not nuts, but all i saw was him arguing that it is possible to make the money, not giving us ideas on HOW to make the money. maybe you've seen him kicking around in other threads that i havent. Or pregnancy brain IS a real thing.
"what i need is a strong drink and a peer group." ... Douglas Adams - Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy
It may be what I've seen in multiple threads, and I certainly don't want to speak for him, but it's all pretty much common sense;
1. Dr. sells from the chair. (you may call it *recommendation* if it makes you feel better)
2. Use all VSP branded products, especially those that kick more to you. (whether you believe in them or not, he does it appears)
3. Take advantage of any "spiff of the month" that VSP offers.
4. Upsell, upgrade and multi-pair sell ( He seems to have no problem with upselling as many hear allude to. It certainly is location dependent depending on your demographics.)
These are just some of the things he has mentioned here which once again, is common sense if you are going to *make a ton of money* off any VCP. As for myself and our locations, we have no problem accepting no VCP's and *capture* our own share of clients that do have these discount for product plans (don't call them "insurance". They are far from it.)
Yes VSP has plenty of options for increased revenue to practices that buy into their programs and use their products, especially now with the extra frames allowance on Marchon and Altair frames. You absolutely will make quite a bit better revenues selling Unity products and Marchon/Altair frames with VSP, and VSP obviously wants this because they make a lot more that way too.
The pain for most of us here is that we don't want to use those products. However the choices are clear: capitulate and make extra revenue, or maintain your independence and forgo some profits, or innovate and ween yourself off the effortless flow of insurance patients. It's pretty clear, we just all have to decide for ourselves which alternative to accept.
I have been reading this thread for some time and like many, I am for a lack of a better word, surprised that a VSP provider can receive an average payment of 300.00
from VSP, for each claim submitted. I am by no means calling any one individual out for making these claims. The doctor for whom I work with is a VSP provider and is now wanting to meet with our local rep, of which I am not to crazy about. I feel like Luke from Star Wars and am being pulled by the Dark Force.
Last edited by Paul Smith LDO; 11-07-2013 at 04:13 PM.
300? wow.. we get about 5 bucks... or owe them $$
Nail - meet hammer. Bam.
The pro-VSP argument presented here is akin to anyone saying they can open a KFC and make "tons of money" in the same context as someone who opens say a stand alone, moderately priced, but extremely high quality and service based steak restaurant. The experience, the quality, the environment are not truly comparable on any meaningful level, and neither is the workload, hoop-jumping, or level of control of your business.
If you want others calling the shots for you, and praying you'll make enough to survive, sleep with VSP. There clearly are those out there who love everything about managed care (please be VERY clear with your patients, this is in NO way "insurance")as a bedfellow. One is forced to wonder however, if they have any idea what they've given up in terms of patient care, their livelihood, and their sanity to do so?
You're looking at the wrong number, the money you're keeping can be found by adding the Patient Materials Payment column + Provider Payment column (the number you're looking at)
Great analogy! Yes, you can make money w/KFC, and they will absolutely own you. Any franchise for that matter. You are basically selling them your soul.
This thread has taken some strange turns. VSP KFC now I am starting to get get hungry, do I want extra crispy or the Unity lens. Both might prove to be just as unpleasant as the other.
$300, if you use all their products for the glasses, and include the exam payment and copays??? That sounds about right. Like I said before, better than a kick in the pants, but still not satisfying. I do like to engage the patients with the thought that I just made them a very nice pair of glasses, for very little money. Very little for either of us.
Every time I go to KFC, I feel so greasy, I want to go home and take a shower.
Yeah....kind of like taking VSP.
Paul, check our your practice report. It will tell you what you are averaging vs their average overall. Again, average overall on our last report showed $225. We are just under $300 across the board, 9 locations. Your mileage may vary. Work with your VSP rep and then even your lab reps. We have by far more luck with their lab rep as they are closer to us and seem to have more time and smaller numbers of accounts to call on. All I know is they are easy to reach and know far more than just lab related VSP points.
You're doing it wrong.
No, that $300 is NOT using all VSP Branded products. That number is actually fromk 2012 when we made the change from Hoya to VSP Products and we are now moving frokm 20% Marchon to nearly double that next year as being part of their Premier Program will net us a lot more and I mean a lot. So in terms of what my opticians like to dispense, I have to direct them to what is going to net a lot more because frankly, I run the business not them and the money is what it's about when we're talking this level of dollars. Again, we fit thousands across the spectrum and $17+ per fit adds up quickly.$300, if you use all their products for the glasses, and include the exam payment and copays??? That sounds about right. Like I said before, better than a kick in the pants, but still not satisfying. I do like to engage the patients with the thought that I just made them a very nice pair of glasses, for very little money. Very little for either of us.
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