Got a visit from the Essilor/Luxottica/EyeMed Rep yesterday........

**mervinek** · 08-12-2013, 03:30 PM

Slim, I know what you mean. I got an order from Davis that was around a -12.00. Came in with one lens. There's no explaining that one. Many rights edged as lefts and vice-versa and sent out that way. Many frames lost. I just got a call last week that they lost a coach frame and I had to send them another one. I have another order that's been remade 6 yes 6 times. Keeps coming in with wrong RX. Patient came in yelling that she is going to contact her lawyer because she paid for them and still doesn't have them! Crazy. I'm not sure I am ready for another insurance-lab mess.

**Uilleann** · 08-12-2013, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by optical24/7

...Until enough providers drop ALL ins. The VSP's and EM's will continue on with business as usual. (for them).

This will N-E-V-E-R happen.

Nice pipe dream though. Too many scared EC"P"s worried about butts in the chair vs quality care, and optical options/choices. And big ins. co's have almost every office (private or otherwise) coast to coast in a rampant fear driven perceived proverbial headlock.

Ah the beds we make for ourselves.

**Jarhead Daddy** · 08-12-2013, 03:41 PM

It will be interesting to see how this works out for EyeMed. In our area, there are only two EyeMed providers, and one other who gives a small discount only. We all take VSP because the largest employers in the area are covered by VSP. Best numbers I can see on a Google search, EyeMed covers 30,000,000 to VSP's 59,000,000. In my area, we could lose every EyeMed patient, and still be booked out two weeks at all times.

**Slim** · 08-12-2013, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by mervinek

Slim, I know what you mean. I got an order from Davis that was around a -12.00. Came in with one lens. There's no explaining that one. Many rights edged as lefts and vice-versa and sent out that way. Many frames lost. I just got a call last week that they lost a coach frame and I had to send them another one. I have another order that's been remade 6 yes 6 times. Keeps coming in with wrong RX. Patient came in yelling that she is going to contact her lawyer because she paid for them and still doesn't have them! Crazy. I'm not sure I am ready for another insurance-lab mess.

We had one close to that... many many remakes. She was so mad at us, but we had nothing to do with it... but she didnt care because we chose to accept Davis... They BLATENTLY lied (davis) telling the cust that we messed it up when we had PAPERS saying they BROKE lenses a few times.

**LENNY** · 08-12-2013, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by Slim

We had one close to that... many many remakes. She was so mad at us, but we had nothing to do with it... but she didnt care because we chose to accept Davis... They BLATENTLY lied (davis) telling the cust that we messed it up when we had PAPERS saying they BROKE lenses a few times.

Sure you messed up the breakage papers!

**golfnut** · 08-12-2013, 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by Johns

So get out of the water, and help your customers get out as well!

I did a health fair two weeks ago. 700 employees, we do all of their safety, as well as most of their dress glasses . They have Eyemed. When I mentioned to the CEO (he, his wife, and 4 kids are all long-time customers) that we are thinking about not taking Eyemed, he mentioned that they might just go to a HSA type, flat rate for glasses and exams. I assured him we would give them a substantial discount, and he was fine. His exact words were, "We're not married to any insurance company. The employees are used to switching plans, and often expect fewer benefits. This would be a plus for everyone."

This is a company that we talked out of VSP and into Eyemed 4 years ago. They get it, and they listen...

What a great proactive approach!

**Johns** · 08-12-2013, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by Uilleann

This will N-E-V-E-R happen.

No, it will never be ALL gone, but I have seen it work here. For some strange reason, NO (absolutely NO) provider in my are would take Davis. Some companies (employers) signed up with them anyway. Employees had to drive 19 miles (one way) to the nearest provider. We advertised a 25% discount, but did not take it. At a local plastics factory, the human resource manager threatened to quit if a change wasn't made, as she was bombarded w/complaints regarding inconvenience (people were driving all that way, trying on the glasses, and being told to come back yet again), lack of quality, and the inability to get an appointment w/in a month. Yeah, the ECP in the next town was busy all right, and it showed.

The companies came back around in no time, and Davis is STILL nowhere to be found in our neighborhood.

I do take some insurances, and some of my offices take many insurances. At the end of the day however, I am the one who decides which we will take, based on profitability, NOT on volume.

**cocoisland58** · 08-13-2013, 05:43 AM

It will be interesting to see how this will work with my employer. As of right now we are able to use our own lab for Eyemed, Davis and VSP. However we are NOT an Essilor lab and likely will not be. The only Davis we get are University of Michigan employees but in this area that is a huge percentage of people.

**waynegilpin** · 08-13-2013, 12:40 PM

There are two Essilor labs that we use. What happens if you order a lens brand they can't supply? Thinking Hoya, Nikon, or any other brands someone would care to suggest.

**Uncle Fester** · 08-13-2013, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by waynegilpin

There are two Essilor labs that we use. What happens if you order a lens brand they can't supply? Thinking Hoya, Nikon, or any other brands someone would care to suggest.

"Can we (ELOA lab) do it?"

"Sure can!"

"In only 3 to 6 weeks!"

Oopps...breakage...dang!

**waynegilpin** · 08-13-2013, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by Uncle Fester

"Can we (ELOA lab) do it?"

"Sure can!"

"In only 3 to 6 weeks!"

Oopps...breakage...dang!

Why do I suspect that you are right on the money? Oh yea, I was born in the morning, but just not yesterday morning.

**Jubilee** · 08-15-2013, 06:51 AM

Or you get a phone call saying "I don't know what this lens is.. can we use Varilux Ellipse instead?"

I was shocked, since I was asking for a Shamir Spectrum! Which is something I think an EOLA lab would be familiar with. We received the call after the order had been in the lab for 10 DAYS!

3 Weeks later, they are still asking us to change or resend the order through the portal, though when the order first was submitted, the portal wasn't active and Eyemed now has the order marked paid.

The nightmare has begun..

Though more labs will be coming on board in Oct, and hopefully better service.

**Judy Canty** · 08-15-2013, 07:41 AM

Deleted.

**optical24/7** · 08-15-2013, 08:52 AM

That's one of the benefits of not taking ins. Delivery of goods to the patients and the fate of your reputation is much more under your own control.

**EyeManFla** · 08-15-2013, 10:41 AM

We have been assured that we can order any lens we want and any coating we want...as long as the lab we pick carries them....this is why we are using our old VSP lab. They are an Essilor lab, but they also do Hoya, Zeiss and Shamir.

Originally Posted by waynegilpin

There are two Essilor labs that we use. What happens if you order a lens brand they can't supply? Thinking Hoya, Nikon, or any other brands someone would care to suggest.

**Judy Canty** · 08-15-2013, 11:42 AM

Deleted.

**jakesd** · 08-15-2013, 12:31 PM

Well I've been doing a wait and see approach. I have my own lab and do about 90% of my own stuff. I wouldn't submit to Davis, nor Spectera and I wont submit to Eyemed. When the patient asks why I no longer take Eyemed, I'll tell them the truth, "Because Eyemed will no longer let me do my own work, I can't guarantee the quality of your glasses and so I wont do business with someone like that."

**kdavenport** · 08-18-2013, 02:45 PM

We have been on the the model since July 29th. If you own your own surfacing Lab then you do not have to use an essilor lab. This is how LensCrafters got exempted. Should you want a Zeiss lens or Hoya then you must use the Lux lab. My zeiss rep tells me Zeiss surfaces the job while lux edges it. The thing is you must pay to get the job to the lux lab in Dallas. Also should you decided to get the job out of network then you will be paid at a lower reimbursement rate.

**Traciangela** · 08-19-2013, 08:21 PM

I have done some analysis on the new EyeMed ELOA program and it seems this will cut private dr's profit who do their own in house edging considerably. Hooray for the big corporations! Lol

**sharpstick777** · 08-21-2013, 01:04 PM

This is what smart business people, who want to be in control of their practice, their futre and service levels must do! Great job Johns, you should give CE's on this!

Originally Posted by Johns

No, it will never be ALL gone, but I have seen it work here. For some strange reason, NO (absolutely NO) provider in my are would take Davis. Some companies (employers) signed up with them anyway. Employees had to drive 19 miles (one way) to the nearest provider. We advertised a 25% discount, but did not take it. At a local plastics factory, the human resource manager threatened to quit if a change wasn't made, as she was bombarded w/complaints regarding inconvenience (people were driving all that way, trying on the glasses, and being told to come back yet again), lack of quality, and the inability to get an appointment w/in a month. Yeah, the ECP in the next town was busy all right, and it showed.

The companies came back around in no time, and Davis is STILL nowhere to be found in our neighborhood.

I do take some insurances, and some of my offices take many insurances. At the end of the day however, I am the one who decides which we will take, based on profitability, NOT on volume.

**sharpstick777** · 08-21-2013, 01:07 PM

I have 9 practices that since January have dropped VSP, 2 have opened cold with zero managed care insurance, and the few Eyemad practices in the area are all dropping it. It depends on your area and level of courage, but you will begin to see more practices who say "no" to insurance, and do very well as a result.

Originally Posted by Uilleann

This will N-E-V-E-R happen.

Nice pipe dream though. Too many scared EC"P"s worried about butts in the chair vs quality care, and optical options/choices. And big ins. co's have almost every office (privete or otherwise) coast to coast in a rampant fear driven perceived proverbial headlock.

Ah the beds we make for ourselves.

**racethe1320** · 08-21-2013, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by sharpstick777

I have 9 practices that since January have dropped VSP, 2 have opened cold with zero managed care insurance, and the few Eyemad practices in the area are all dropping it. It depends on your area and level of courage, but you will begin to see more practices who say "no" to insurance, and do very well as a result.

It can be done but what I predict you'll see is the managed care companies, if faced with a client in the area and not enough providers, will instead direct said clients to retail. In the case of EyeMed, they will simply direct them to a Lux retailer or in the case of VSP, they will simply add an affiliate member to cover the need. Currently however, both have more than enough providers and will gradually be narrowing the field as both have over-saturated many markets...at least in my opinion.

**sharpstick777** · 08-21-2013, 07:53 PM

For once I agree with you...

Originally Posted by racethe1320

It can be done but what I predict you'll see is the managed care companies, if faced with a client in the area and not enough providers, will instead direct said clients to retail. In the case of EyeMed, they will simply direct them to a Lux retailer or in the case of VSP, they will simply add an affiliate member to cover the need. Currently however, both have more than enough providers and will gradually be narrowing the field as both have over-saturated many markets...at least in my opinion.

Just speculation, but I imagine both Eyemad and VSPee will offer at some point offer very low cost loans for OD's to start new practices, in specific locations, with low rates, to fill in a hole or too. It would be hush-hush, and they will be required to use the respective brands frames (almost) exclusively. It wouldn't be a wide spread program.

But yea, both are over saturated in most markets, and both would benefit from trimming some practices.

**racethe1320** · 08-21-2013, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by sharpstick777

For once I agree with you...Just speculation, but I imagine both Eyemad and VSPee will offer at some point offer very low cost loans for OD's to start new practices, in specific locations, with low rates, to fill in a hole or too. It would be hush-hush, and they will be required to use the respective brands frames (almost) exclusively. It wouldn't be a wide spread program.

Already happening. Many practices are expanding and the big boys are helping fund them in various ways. Capital loans in form of rebates, Optical depts. are being remodeled, etc....and yes deals are had to use specific products. Big E and Hoya have been locking in contracts for years and finally the managed care companies are wising up and putting an end to it and instead doing so themselves.

**sharpstick777** · 08-22-2013, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by racethe1320

Already happening. Many practices are expanding and the big boys are helping fund them in various ways. Capital loans in form of rebates, Optical depts. are being remodeled, etc....and yes deals are had to use specific products. Big E and Hoya have been locking in contracts for years and finally the managed care companies are wising up and putting an end to it and instead doing so themselves.

Then specialization has begun. I guess over the next few years we will see more practices go insurance free, and more VPS and Eyemad practices offer one, or the other, but not both insurance, but those that do will see of lot more of their respective patients. And we will see more multi-Doctor practices in medium to large cities.