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Thread: Generic Free Form Progressive!

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    OptiBoard Apprentice LAGUNAEYEDESIGNER's Avatar
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    Redhot Jumper Generic Free Form Progressive!

    We are looking for Generic Freeform progressive poly clear for our package deal. Please share the name of the lenses and where can we get them? Please. Thanks.

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    SightStar365 from Luzerne. www.luzerneoptical.com

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    There is no such thing as generic free form. There are only eight free form designs in existence. They simply pay a price for the software and unlimited use on their free form generator. Then they rename it whatever sounds good. They are all good. It's how they are measured, fit and dispensed that really matters.

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    OS Progressive Plus from Rxvalueline

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    DirekTek from Signetek/Signet Armorlite
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    Legacy Series from IcareLabs. www.IcareLabs.com

    Most labs have a house brand these days. We have two that might work for you. The Legacy Basic, or the Legacy Pro.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marktheeyeguy View Post
    There is no such thing as generic free form. There are only eight free form designs in existence. They simply pay a price for the software and unlimited use on their free form generator. Then they rename it whatever sounds good. They are all good. It's how they are measured, fit and dispensed that really matters.

    That's news to me! What is your basis for making such a statement? And please identify these eight designs in their best-known names.

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    Ok, sure.......research Scopus in Israel.

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marktheeyeguy View Post
    Ok, sure.......research Scopus in Israel.
    Not really an answer. You brought it to the discussion. You get to educate us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marktheeyeguy View Post
    Ok, sure.......research Scopus in Israel.
    Are you saying all the freeform progressive designs came from Scopus and such companies as Seiko, Zeiss, Shamir, and Hoya get their designs from them?

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    Scopus is an Israeli manufacturer. They sell lenses in the US under the name Ilenco. The Concord is one of their designs. We use their traditionally surfaced product. I think they also make some blanks for Shamir, some of the VSP proprietary offerings, and who knows what other vendors.

    It looks like they have updated their website and they now offer free form software and lens designs.

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    Objection! OptiBoard Gold Supporter shanbaum's Avatar
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    Scopus' designs have never been resold by major manufacturers such as those listed above. The statement that "there are only eight freeform designs in existence" is incorrect. There are more than eight lens design companies (I can think of ten, offhand, and I'm sure I'm not thinking of all of them) and each offers multiple, distinct designs.

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    Kstraker, YES!! You are absolutely 100% correct! Yes it is true, they provide lens designs, molds ect. for the big names you listed. Now, free form technology and designs were developed by the Israeli company Scopus. This is not something that is public information or available on the internet. Now, if you buy your own free form generator you can buy the software to run an many lenses as you like for $40,000.00. Just a little inside info. Now, let me ask you. Have you ever fit a bad free form? Hmmm....... Save your money. Don't buy the name brands. It's a total waste. Find a good lab with a good price on free form and you win! You should pay no more than {wholesale pricing removed} for clear a/r poly, cr, trivex. :)
    Last edited by Fezz; 05-01-2013 at 08:40 AM. Reason: Removed wholesale pricing

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    One eye sees, the other feels OptiBoard Silver Supporter
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    Quote Originally Posted by marktheeyeguy View Post
    Kstraker, YES!! You are absolutely 100% correct! Yes it is true, they provide lens designs, molds ect. for the big names you listed. Now, free form technology and designs were developed by the Israeli company Scopus. This is not something that is public information or available on the internet. Now, if you buy your own free form generator you can buy the software to run an many lenses as you like for $40,000.00.
    But someone will have to pay Zeiss a licensing fee if it's a FBS with a rotationally symmetric front, because Zeiss has the patents on this type of lens, not Scopus.

    Just a little inside info. Now, let me ask you. Have you ever fit a bad free form?
    I've blind tested numerous PALs- a bad or inappropriate design is exactly that, and fancy software and freeform generator didn't save them from my circular file, or in the case of inappropriate designs, from using them when not indicated by the Rx and the individual's visual requirements.

    Hmmm....... Save your money. Don't buy the name brands. It's a total waste. Find a good lab with a good price on free form and you win! You should pay no more than {wholesale pricing removed} for clear a/r poly, cr, trivex. :)
    True to some extent with low power, non-complex single vision Rxs, but IMO too broad of a statement to hang on my door.
    Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. - Richard P. Feynman

    Experience is the hardest teacher. She gives the test before the lesson.



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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    If the information is not public nor available on the internet, how do you come by it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy Canty View Post
    If the information is not public nor available on the internet, how do you come by it?
    The old fashioned way, from personal contact. Our Ilenco rep is an Israeli gentleman who lives in the local area. His family runs the Scopus plant in Israel. He comes by from time to time as reps will do. He's never very specific about which lenses they provide for other companies, but does state that they are a wholesaler for other brands.

    Shaunbaum: I could be wrong about naming Shamir, but they definitely do wholesale work for major insurance plans and other vendors in general.

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    Objection! OptiBoard Gold Supporter shanbaum's Avatar
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    I am reasonably confident that no major supplier (none from the enumeration above, which I realize was not your list, but jefe's) is reselling Scopus freeform design software or freeform designs. I am aware that they provide private-label lenses to resellers, and I have heard that they make molds for major suppliers, and there have been a number of companies reselling their freeform system - just not the majors.

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter rdcoach5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marktheeyeguy View Post
    There is no such thing as generic free form. There are only eight free form designs in existence. They simply pay a price for the software and unlimited use on their free form generator. Then they rename it whatever sounds good. They are all good. It's how they are measured, fit and dispensed that really matters.

    Not true at all. Contact Jeff at Toledo Optical. They started with an IOT design but tweaked it with help from Younger and another lab , I forget which, maybe X-cel. It's not the same at all as the original IOT design. It's not x-cel, it's DVI
    Last edited by rdcoach5; 05-07-2013 at 08:58 AM. Reason: correction

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    Master OptiBoarder LENNY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shanbaum View Post
    Scopus' designs have never been resold by major manufacturers such as those listed above. The statement that "there are only eight freeform designs in existence" is incorrect. There are more than eight lens design companies (I can think of ten, offhand, and I'm sure I'm not thinking of all of them) and each offers multiple, distinct designs.
    Can you please name the 10 you mentioned!
    Are there many China based copycats?

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    m&h optical. 18004453090

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