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Thread: Surmount vs Comfort S series

  1. #1
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    Surmount vs Comfort S series

    How are they different and in what instances is one better than the other?

    Also, I know Surmount is optimized for hyperopia but I've found many myopic patients love their Surmounts too. Are there any disadvantages for a myopic patient and the surmount?

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    I have tried both, with the same Rx in frames that were approximately the same. I experienced a little less distortion in the periphery with the S series but other than that, no noticeable difference. Certainly not enough to charge many more dollars for. This was when the Doc was trying to determine to go with the S series or keep dispensing what we've been dispensing. We dispense nothing but free form and my go-to lens is the Surmount. Never had any problems with plus or minus Rx's.

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    Forgive me, but I would like to know exactly what "optimized" means to people in the know. Of all the digital vaguearies this one is the most difficult to quantify. This is an aside, as I personally am a great fan of Seiko product and the Surmount lens. Still, I'd like a clarification as to what opticians are buying into here. If someone asks "What do you mean by optimized?" how do you reply?

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    Master OptiBoarder DanLiv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason H View Post
    Forgive me, but I would like to know exactly what "optimized" means to people in the know.
    Typically means atoric curve generation to perfectly address the Rx, when speaking of digital lenses in general. Of the Surmount in particular, it's uniquely designed with high asphericity to achieve a thinner and flatter lens in high plus Rxs compared to competing technologies.

    I had one opportunity to fit a Surmount 1.74, on a +8.00 patient who wanted better thinness than the Physio Enhanced 1.74 I had her in. It certainly was thinner, but my patient immediately rebelled against the vision. Far too much peripheral distortion and narrow reading. Remade back into Physio Enhanced Fit 1.74, and the world was right again (just not as thin). Granted, one case means little, but I was disappointed. The thinness really was nice, especially when they got the knife-edge right on.

    Re Varilux S, I've fit about 50 of them with 100% existing progressive wearer adaptation and satisfaction. Have had 2 failures, but these were complete progressive lifestyle non-adapts, no fault of the S. I personally am impressed with the S and my patients do report greater visual comfort, so there is something there.
    Last edited by DanLiv; 04-24-2013 at 10:48 AM.

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    OptiBoard Professional ERHALT1's Avatar
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    What is the price differences?

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    Master OptiBoarder AngeHamm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ERHALT1 View Post
    What is the price differences?
    This is a question and answer for a Private Message.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanLiv View Post
    Re Varilux S, I've fit about 50 of them with 100% existing progressive wearer adaptation and satisfaction. Have had 2 failures, but these were complete progressive lifestyle non-adapts, no fault of the S. I personally am impressed with the S and my patients do report greater visual comfort, so there is something there.
    4% non-adapt is pretty high for me, and adaptation and satisfaction is less than what I would expect from the high tech claims of the S? I never have worked with a more adaptive lens than the Physio Enhanced, but my patient satisfaction hasn't dipped when using well fit IOT designs and Shamir spectrums, and AutoII (III?) And essilor keeps raising their prices.

    I'm not touching the S until I hear better things than satisfaction.

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    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    IOT designs


    Independant...optical...?

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    OptiWizard
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    Thanks DanLiv

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    Master OptiBoarder LENNY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanLiv View Post
    Typically means atoric curve generation to perfectly address the Rx, when speaking of digital lenses in general. Of the Surmount in particular, it's uniquely designed with high asphericity to achieve a thinner and flatter lens in high plus Rxs compared to competing technologies.

    I had one opportunity to fit a Surmount 1.74, on a +8.00 patient who wanted better thinness than the Physio Enhanced 1.74 I had her in. It certainly was thinner, but my patient immediately rebelled against the vision. Far too much peripheral distortion and narrow reading. Remade back into Physio Enhanced Fit 1.74, and the world was right again (just not as thin). Granted, one case means little, but I was disappointed. The thinness really was nice, especially when they got the knife-edge right on.

    Re Varilux S, I've fit about 50 of them with 100% existing progressive wearer adaptation and satisfaction. Have had 2 failures, but these were complete progressive lifestyle non-adapts, no fault of the S. I personally am impressed with the S and my patients do report greater visual comfort, so there is something there.
    Which S are you using?

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    Master OptiBoarder DanLiv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LENNY View Post
    Which S are you using?
    S Fit. Went straight to that because we routinely did Physio Fit previously and I didn't want to introduce additional measuring to my opticians immediately. I guess it's about time I move to the 4D. Not interested in the basic S Design because I like variable corridors. Plus as I really believe in the benefits of fit values, I gotta believe in most cases a variable corridor Physio Fit will be better than a fixed, not fit value S Series.

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    Master OptiBoarder DanLiv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallboy View Post
    4% non-adapt is pretty high for me, and adaptation and satisfaction is less than what I would expect from the high tech claims of the S? I never have worked with a more adaptive lens than the Physio Enhanced, but my patient satisfaction hasn't dipped when using well fit IOT designs and Shamir spectrums, and AutoII (III?) And essilor keeps raising their prices.

    I'm not touching the S until I hear better things than satisfaction.
    I don't count those 2 non-adapts as failures of the S. I believe now those patients would have non-adapted to any progressive. Their visual behavior just turned out to be too imcompatible with progressive design. Perhaps if I had been a more dutiful optician I would have sniffed that out beforehand, but I think excitement about Essilor's claims and comfort with their guarantee made me gamble when I otherwise I would not have.

    FWIW both patients were moderate (<+1.00) hyperopes with +1.50 and +2.25 adds. Both opted for SV NVO instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallboy View Post
    4% non-adapt is pretty high for me, and adaptation and satisfaction is less than what I would expect from the high tech claims of the S? I never have worked with a more adaptive lens than the Physio Enhanced, but my patient satisfaction hasn't dipped when using well fit IOT designs and Shamir spectrums, and AutoII (III?) And essilor keeps raising their prices.

    I'm not touching the S until I hear better things than satisfaction.
    The non-adapt rate here at our lab is now 18.2 % on the "S", most of my customers have stopped fitting the lens. Our non adapt rate on the Surmount is 0.6% by comparision. It may depend on what the patient was in before.

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    Beside the Optimization, the Surmount and the "S" are not comparable designs. The Surmount is a barrel shape, with a the widest point of the lens at the Intermediate. The corridor is essentially reversed with the widest point at the top. As such, the distance is usually not edge to edge clear and the focus of the design in clarity at the foveal cone, which it acheives. It also offers a unique patented corridor where the corridor is realigned based on the effective prism of each pts unique RX and Add power.

    The "S" series focus is on spacial distortion, its a very very soft V shape lens, but suffers from narrow reading in most patients, and narrower intemediate in some. Its designed to emphasise a Single Vision experience so it moves a little bit of its distortion everywhere, in increasing amounts the farther away you get from the OC. The downside is that many people in lower RX like mine lose straight on accuity.

    The +8.00 patient should probably have been in the Surmount WS, not the regular Surmount. It doubles the size of the reading in higher RXs and Add powers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drk View Post


    Independant...optical...?
    Indizen Optical Technologies. http://www.iot.es/

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