Here goes a stupid question from a Newbie

[charnich]

Hi guys. I am looking into getting started with edging. I really don't know too much about it. The most cost effective way is to start with an old pattern edger. However, it seems like making patterns is time consuming and wasteful. I was wondering if it is possible to use the dummy plastic lens insert from a new frame instead of a pattern. I am looking at a horizon II edger BTW. Any insight is greatly appreciated!!

[Uncle Fester]

Hi Doc and welcome to optiboard!

The Horizon 11 is I think a great edger to learn on.

Contact Johns and see if he can give you a deal on some old blanks.

If you are starting from scratch you should pay a benchman to teach you the ropes. The tips experience will give you will pay for itself.

Good luck and keep posting!

PS- The sample lens as a pattern will probably flex and not work.

[Johns]

Sorry, I donated them all (40,000+) to a local college with an optical program. (I needed the deduction!)

[optical24/7]

Welcome to the board doc. Do yourself and your bottom line a favor and get a patternless edger. You can pick-up a re-furb Santinelli 7070 from Vision Systems Inc.

www.Patternless.com

A pattern edger is not the most "cost effective" but the cheapest. You will need a more skilled operator ( like making rimless patterns by hand) These are time tested and proven machines (the 7070). It will pay for itself in no time ( as long as you don't chicken out and only run SV jobs )



* I don't work for or have a financial interest in the above company, but they do have a stellar reputation

[cocoisland58]

I'm pretty sure you can call your frame vendors and still get patterns for the frames you carry and most likely at n/c. I wouldn't pay money for a pattern edger but you may find one someone who wants to give onne away. If I were you I would spend some cash on a patternless edger. Most of us who have worked the old way wouldn't go back.

[Johns]

Patterns? I'm with Optical24/7. Starting out in 2013 with a patternless edger is like outfitting your exam room with a Greens phoroptor and pump chair and stand. Are they functional, sure. Is that really where you want to be?

I was raised on pattern edgers, but when I opened my own place, I waited for 8 years before I put in a lab, so that I could afford a patternless. I spent $35k on the first one, and close to $46k on the second one. No regrets. I now have 7 edgers, and all of them are patternless.

(I bought my first edger before I replaced my Greens!)

[Craig]

Welcome to the board doc. Do yourself and your bottom line a favor and get a patternless edger. You can pick-up a re-furb Santinelli 7070 from Vision Systems Inc.

www.Patternless.com

A pattern edger is not the most "cost effective" but the cheapest. You will need a more skilled operator ( like making rimless patterns by hand) These are time tested and proven machines (the 7070). It will pay for itself in no time ( as long as you don't chicken out and only run SV jobs )



* I don't work for or have a financial interest in the above company, but they do have a stellar reputation

They are the perfect company to help you get started properly in the modern era. Cheap is cheap, but value is what you really want.

[becc971]

I ran a pattern edger for a few months at another job, i would say save your money and invest in a patternless. making patterns is time consuming and until you get really good at it, can involve a LOT of redos. One of those instances when technology is actually helpful I am also not a patient person, which is probably why it was even WORSE for me haha.

*edit* that being said, i have true respect for anyone who can make a good pattern.

[Randle Tibbs, ABOM]

When you factor in the time it takes to make a pattern and more times than not the amount of time it takes to size the lens, plus the cost of patterns, it really isn't that cost effective. Also, factor in the age of the machine and the wear and tear that it has endured, in short, don't cut corners on quality and time.

Randle

[charnich]

So it looks like the consensus is largely just go patternless. To be honest I've already spoken with Leo at VSI. They are having a SECO special of 10K for a 7070. The thing is I don't finance ANYTHING and 10K would be doable but a little tight, especially since I don't know if edging would be a good investment for our office. Before I popped for the patternless I was considering patterned for a tenth of that to see if edging is feasible for our practice.

Who here has actually purchased one of the refurb 7070's. I have heard from a few that the tracers tend to go out. Without a tracer that is one big paperweight!! These units may be upwards of 20 years old and so parts may be getting harder to come by in 5-10 years. Also, the available parts are usually from older machines as well.

I don't mind spending the $ on a refurb, but for 10K I need it to last for at least several years. There's no way I can do a new model financially. The other thought is that I could spend a few more K and get a 9000 series. Does anybody know the years those were produced?? At least that would ease my concern for long term parts availability. The grooving feature is a nice add on.

I was wondering if anybody has had any experience with Dia edgers. Do they have have a reputation good bad or other? For a new multi-function edger they are cheaper than the mainstream brands.

[Uncle Fester]

What's the minimum number of jobs a day you guys think are needed to justify in house edging?

We have a lot of VSP which we have Luzerne do. Years ago went to a tracing system for private pay work and it has worked very well as any mistake on an expensive lens is on the lab.

A Horizon to edge a simple stock lens I think may still be her/his most cost effective way to go.

[charnich]

We're a low volume practice so I will be doing the edging personally. I estimate maybe 3 a day. That's why I want to keep it as cheap as possible. I will be paying outright for whatever we get so there won't be financing involved. But even a few a day could really improve our bottom line. I understand there is a learning curve with a pattern edger, but they seem to be far more reliable that patternless. It seems like most people responding think patternless is the way to go. I'm not opposed to it, I'm just considering my options.

What's the minimum number of jobs a day you guys think are needed to justify in house edging?

We have a lot of VSP which we have Luzerne do. Years ago went to a tracing system for private pay work and it has worked very well as any mistake on an expensive lens is on the lab.

A Horizon to edge a simple stock lens I think may still be her/his most cost effective way to go.

[kcount]

We're a low volume practice so I will be doing the edging personally. I estimate maybe 3 a day. That's why I want to keep it as cheap as possible. I will be paying outright for whatever we get so there won't be financing involved. But even a few a day could really improve our bottom line. I understand there is a learning curve with a pattern edger, but they seem to be far more reliable that patternless. It seems like most people responding think patternless is the way to go. I'm not opposed to it, I'm just considering my options.

3 jobs a day means no edger.

When your at 7-10 per day pull the cord on the edger. Hell, Send the order to me, I'll only charge you $5 + lens costs to edge for you all day!

think of this scenario, you run a job with a FF PAL Trivex with AR, after the first lens you realize the sizing was not reset and the lens is now .5mm too small. Your costs on this job just went up. Add in an Rx remake and your upside down.
When you start off edging your remake rate will be high and costly. Wait until you have more volume and you can absorb the costs easer. Trust me there is nothing like having a bad day on the edger.

This beeing said, a 7070 will run 4-9K and is a great trainer. Easy to use and damn near bullet proof. I started on an old Mark 5 Deluxe (yeah, we were high end) and while I wouldn't trade that education for anything in todays world I wouldn't buy one. Well, unless I was doing glass all day or needed a new boat anchor.

[Chris Ryser]

We're a low volume practice so I will be doing the edging personally. I estimate maybe 3 a day. That's why I want to keep it as cheap as possible. I will be paying outright for whatever we get so there won't be financing involved. But even a few a day could really improve our bottom line. I understand there is a learning curve with a pattern edger, but they seem to be far more reliable that patternless. It seems like most people responding think patternless is the way to go. I'm not opposed to it, I'm just considering my options.

I love your attitude to get started doing your own edging. As you say there is a learning curve and it is a good way to go. After while you will know what it is all about.

Older edgers will require more understanding what it is all about and at a low volume it will let you do all this. Start out by doing the SV stock lenses and once you feel comfortable start getting into less expensive bifocals and progess from there. At a later date when volume gets up you can always progress into the Rolls Royce category edgers.

Do as much as possible in office and your bottom line will for sure improve. Our well to do and successfull OB friends might have forgotten how they started out a long time ago.

[jefe]

VSI will send a fellow from Florida, install a working edger, and show you how to use it. It's (probably 2x) definitely more expensive than buying a used one on eBay, but you can be sure it will work, has had many parts replaced, and has a sixty (?) day warranty.

[jefe]

You should check out what AIT has as an affordable NEW edging system. I think it's called the Continuum. It may not cost much more than the VSI refurbished unit.

[charnich]

I haven't heard of that one. I'll look into it. I have heard some people grumbling about AIT's service, but I guess that's what service contracts are for...

[Lee Prewitt]

My customers get great service Thank you! I will send you a PM and we can talk.

[Java99]

I bought a refurb 7070 from VSI a little over a year ago. Install training was great. Have had to call once for help, and the problem was solved in ten minutes. It's not fabulous for jobs with sharp corners on lenses, but that's the machine itself and a small gripe. I would start this way again anytime. The ability to retain same day business have been a big deal for us.

[Johns]

We're a low volume practice so I will be doing the edging personally. I estimate maybe 3 a day. That's why I want to keep it as cheap as possible. I will be paying outright for whatever we get so there won't be financing involved. But even a few a day could really improve our bottom line. I understand there is a learning curve with a pattern edger, but they seem to be far more reliable that patternless. It seems like most people responding think patternless is the way to go. I'm not opposed to it, I'm just considering my options.

Last Monday, I threw an old 7070 into one of my more boutique type offices. The optician has been bugging me to drag it out of the warehouse (I bought it a few years ago from someone on Optiboard) and set it up.

The optician texted me today that a family came in and she sold 4 pairs of glasses, edged, and dispensed them before noon today. She said the mother had called from the office of our competitor, where she just had exams for the kids. They are leaving Sunday for Disney, and she wanted them NOW! My machine is already turning into an ATM for me!

I also decided that I was only going to stock poly/AR at this office also, so if they want them now, they are going to get the good stuff (and pay for it).

[Java99]

VSI will send a fellow from Florida, install a working edger, and show you how to use it. It's (probably 2x) definitely more expensive than buying a used one on eBay, but you can be sure it will work, has had many parts replaced, and has a sixty (?) day warranty.

Mine had 6 month warranty, lifetime phone support.

[Reliable Optics]

I also decided that I was only going to stock poly/AR at this office also, so if they want them now, they are going to get the good stuff (and pay for it).

I like it! Very smart!

[visionbk]

how does the 7070 compare to the le 1000? Do they do mostly the same functions? I'm in between getting a certified from santinelli or a used from vsi.. any input would help.

[Jubilee]

The le 1000 is faster, Tracer has more points, and depending upon model will safety bevel and groove. The 7070 is the good old workhorse. Doesn't have all the bells and whistles, but it will run forever if you treat it right. For an older edger, it still has quite the following due to its performance.

[kat]

Welcome to OB. I have nothing to add other than welcome.