The Best Healthcare That Money Can Buy

[rbaker]

Obamacare will increase the long-term federal deficit by $6.2 trillion, according to a Government Accountability Office (GAO) report released today.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/341589/gao-report-obamacare-adds-62-trillion-long-term-deficit-andrew-stiles

I just got my brain around billions of dollars and now they are throwing trillions of dollars at me.

[shanbaum]

Dick, do me a favor and read the report on which Sessions based his claim, and see if you can find support for it:

http://www.gao.gov/assets/660/651702.pdf

[Steve Machol]

That article in the National Review is (surprise, surprise!) not the complete story. The fact is that Sen. Sessions requested that the GAO "estimate would would happen if the cost containment provisions in the law — the Independent Payment Advisory Board, excise tax on high-cost plans, and reductions in Medicare payments to providers — are 'phased out over time' while the coverage provisions remain. Unsurprisingly, the GAO concluded that if the portions of the law that were specifically designed to keep costs under control don’t go into effect, then the law won’t be effective in lowering health care costs."

Source: http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013...ve-ever-heard/

[rbaker]

You and I both know that there are no accurate numbers when we are dealing with federal budget numbers or reports. I, like you, have to rely on what is reported. Any discrepancy lies in who does the interpretation and how they report it.

[shanbaum]

You and I both know that there are no accurate numbers when we are dealing with federal budget numbers or reports. I, like you, have to rely on what is reported. Any discrepancy lies in who does the interpretation and how they report it.

Then what on Earth was the point of your original post?

[mdeimler]

Thank you for the link, btw.

[Uncle Fester]

I was thinking if we could stay out of wars for oil for a generation or two we might just cover a big chunk of that.

[Steve Machol]

I was thinking if we could stay out of wars for oil for a generation or two we might just cover a big chunk of that.

That would be nice, but unfortunately our history is full of war and military actions. As of now, we have had 216 years of war and only 21 years without war. The U.S. has never gone a single decade without going to war or engaging in military action:

http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/12/we-...en-since-1776/
https://www.upworthy.com/daymn-how-m...war-since-1776

[rbaker]

Now I know that this is not a popular thought but I believe that the roots of violence and war are found within the human genome (and most other biological entities.) A good war now and then seems to improve the species much as blowing your nose clears the sinuses.

There is a finite quantity of petrolium on this planet. Who should have it - us or them.

[shanbaum]

Now I know that this is not a popular thought but I believe that the roots of violence and war are found within the human genome (and most other biological entities.) A good war now and then seems to improve the species much as blowing your nose clears the sinuses.

There is a finite quantity of petrolium on this planet. Who should have it - us or them.

Thanks, Dick. Now I understand.

[rinselberg]

"What's our oil doing under their sand?"

I just wanted to remind readers of the proper Internet meme for this thought.

[MasterCrafter]

RBaker, you will not get anywhere with these guys. They act like ObamaCare will not add anything to the deficit. Even though it was written by one of thier beloved Govt agencys.

Lets face it, they drank a whole pitcher of Obama koolaid. Shanbuam and Fester will never say anything negative about the messiah. They probably think Obama is the smartest President EVER!! Even though he refuses to release his College grades.

Rinselberg, North america has more oil than all the Middle East put together... What is the reason for us not going and getting it? Oh Man mad Global warming?? Then why is it snowing in Arizona and Texas got hit with 19 inches of snow? You'll probably say Global warming hahaha

[shanbaum]

What a compelling argument, MasterCrafter!

In fact, Obamacare is largely taken from the Heritage Foundation's (you know who they are, right?) response to Hillarycare; the idea of requiring employers to cover employees dates back to Nixon. I don't particularly like it, although I think it will be better than nothing, if it actually accomplishes its original goal of making healthcare more widely available. The idea that it won't cost anything is of course, risible; however, there are additional taxes (that you will not be paying, I suspect) that try to cover the addtional costs.

Yes, global warming, what a joke. Ha. I'm sure your opinions are based on something much more substantial than kool-aid, because taken in the aggregate, your posts reveal you to be such a well-informed fellow.

[MasterCrafter]

What a compelling argument, MasterCrafter!

In fact, Obamacare is largely taken from the Heritage Foundation's (you know who they are, right?) response to Hillarycare; the idea of requiring employers to cover employees dates back to Nixon. I don't particularly like it, although I think it will be better than nothing, if it actually accomplishes its original goal of making healthcare more widely available. The idea that it won't cost anything is of course, risible; however, there are additional taxes (that you will not be paying, I suspect) that try to cover the addtional costs.

Yes, global warming, what a joke. Ha. I'm sure your opinions are based on something much more substantial than kool-aid, because taken in the aggregate, your posts reveal you to be such a well-informed fellow.

Well anybody that believes in man made global warming is either 1 - ignorant of the facts or under informed shall we say. 2 - wants to control people with false science.

It is the Sun that determines 99% of the warmth on this planet. It does not take a Global warming scientist to figure that out.

Besides Nixon was a Progressive with a R behind his name. You Libs are always bashing Nixon. The only reason you do bash him is the R behind his name... if he had a D behind his name you guys would love him.

[Uncle Fester]

RBaker, you will not get anywhere with these guys. They act like ObamaCare will not add anything to the deficit. Yes it will cost us. A lot! But the past system was far worse for future generations. Many very difficult decisions and actions lie ahead. Even though it was written by one of their beloved Govt agencys.

Lets face it, they drank a whole pitcher of Obama koolaid. Shanbuam and Fester will never say anything negative about the messiah. His drone program is going to come back to bite us and we both should agree that the wiretapping we've allowed under the guise of national security is a real and present danger to the limited liberty we now have. They probably think Obama is the smartest President EVER!! Even though he refuses to release his College grades. Hannity never graduated and Limbaugh never went. Their military credentials however must compensate for the lack of formal education. Right?

Rinselberg, North America has more oil than all the Middle East put together... What is the reason for us not going and getting it? Oh Man made Global warming?? Then why is it snowing in Arizona and Texas got hit with 19 inches of snow? You'll probably say Global warming hahaha. The most potent greenhouse gas in relation to our weather is water vapor which comes from a warmer climate. Now if we could implement a carbon tax (or the republican idea of cap and trade) so we can reintroduce nuclear and get a real cost of carbon and mercury in the environment...

So there!
( I miss these debates- conservative vs progressive thoughts. If you don't- you can ignore or edit this thread so it doesn't even appear on your screen.)

[MikeAurelius]

Oh Man mad Global warming?? Then why is it snowing in Arizona and Texas got hit with 19 inches of snow? You'll probably say Global warming hahaha

You *DO* realize that when climate change occurs that the "normal" storm patterns also change? And local weather has little if anything to do with global climate. I suggest you stop watching Faux News and do some research to educate yourself. Start by looking at the amount of ice and snow on Greenland in mid-summer. Look at the decrease in the amount of ice on the North Pole in mid-summer. Look at the decrease in ice in Antarctica in their mid-summer, and the number of ice shelfs that have broken off.

Now, perhaps a better question would be, is the climate change directly cause by man-made effects? That is debatable. My belief is that there is a man-made component, that that man-made component has contributed and perhaps exacerbated the speed of the change.

[Wes]

So there!
( I miss these debates- conservative vs progressive thoughts. If you don't- you can ignore or edit this thread so it doesn't even appear on your screen.)

Geothermal would seem the most logical renewable power source, and it is accessible to nearly every location.

[Wes]

You *DO* realize that when climate change occurs that the "normal" storm patterns also change? And local weather has little if anything to do with global climate. I suggest you stop watching Faux News and do some research to educate yourself. Start by looking at the amount of ice and snow on Greenland in mid-summer. Look at the decrease in the amount of ice on the North Pole in mid-summer. Look at the decrease in ice in Antarctica in their mid-summer, and the number of ice shelfs that have broken off.

Now, perhaps a better question would be, is the climate change directly cause by man-made effects? That is debatable. My belief is that there is a man-made component, that that man-made component has contributed and perhaps exacerbated the speed of the change.

I will agree that we are seeing climate change. The ice isn't lying. The climate has fluctuated wildly over the history of the earth. Where I live in SC, there is a wide band called the sandhills where the beach used to be, so we know that in the past there was much less ice and the oceans were a few hundred feet higher. Obviously man did not cause this situation then, and it is debatable how much man is contributing to it now. I assume there is an anthropogenic factor, but believe it is not likely to be the primary driving force behind climate change. The sun does have its cycles, and vulcanism and plate tectonics surely play a role as well. Another possible contributor is methane gas pockets being released from the ocean floor. Methane functions as a greenhouse gas to a much higher degree than does CO2.

[kentmitchell1961]

Well, gee, get rid of medicare and medicaid and replace with a better more even option and the costs are a wash, or according to a recent article from the wall street journal it will actually save billions each year. We as the only western country without health care need to suck it up and join the civilized world. Oh, and raise the minimum wage to a realistic level....

[Uncle Fester]

Geothermal would seem the most logical renewable power source, and it is accessible to nearly every location.

I agree but we need to get a fix on the true cost of fossil fuels before it becomes possible to crunch the numbers to see if it's economically feasible.

[kentmitchell1961]

And allow us to buy Cuban cigars.......

[MikeAurelius]

I assume there is an anthropogenic factor, but believe it is not likely to be the primary driving force behind climate change. The sun does have its cycles, and vulcanism and plate tectonics surely play a role as well. Another possible contributor is methane gas pockets being released from the ocean floor. Methane functions as a greenhouse gas to a much higher degree than does CO2.

Glad we can agree!

I'm not sure about vulcanism and plate tectonics. Granted, we don't know how much heat is being generated below sea level in areas such as the "Ring of Fire", I'm not sure that those factors are contributing significantly. Methane, yes, absolutely. With more and more of the permafrost melting in places such as Siberia, a lot of pockets of previously sealed in methane are being released. At some point in the fairly near future, I think a tipping point is going to be reached. I hope I'm in my grave by the time that happens.

[MasterCrafter]

So there!
( I miss these debates- conservative vs progressive thoughts. If you don't- you can ignore or edit this thread so it doesn't even appear on your screen.)

Are Hannity and Limbaugh the President??

We all know why Obama got into Harvard.

Besides... I hated the Patriot act to begin with... and Obama used to be against it before he doubled down on it and expanded it. Where are all those screaming Libs who use to rail about (and still do) water boarding or slapping a Terrorist? So I guess killing them with drones is better?

What about Obama's policy of killing Americans without due process? Why isnt that all over Lib TV.... Stop watching CNN and MSNBC for Pete's sake.

[MikeAurelius]

Stop watching CNN and MSNBC for Pete's sake.

And there you have it, another rabid, foaming at the mouth Faux News fanatic.

[Uncle Fester]

Are Hannity and Limbaugh the President??

We all know why Obama got into Harvard.

Besides... I hated the Patriot act to begin with... and Obama used to be against it before he doubled down on it and expanded it. Where are all those screaming Libs who use to rail about (and still do) water boarding or slapping a Terrorist? So I guess killing them with drones is better?

What about Obama's policy of killing Americans without due process? Why isnt that all over Lib TV.... Stop watching CNN and MSNBC for Pete's sake.

But you said I never disagree with the president and these are just 2 examples of where I do. I also listen to The Maha Rushdie. Just yesterday he was talking about the original post and my ears pricked up when he said this was a GAO and not CBO report so I figured the numbers were cherry picked.

How about that rant on MD's pay?
Do you ever listen to National Public Radio? If you did you'd have heard many discussions about all these topics from both sides.