CEU hours (Zzzzzzzz E U Hours)

[Johns]

For opticians only:

(For those of us that still attend CEU hours, instead of taking them online)

I think we have a pretty good idea of what we DON'T want to see/hear at CEU seminars, and they include

-Progressive lens design discussions (commercials)
-New frame material discussions (commercials)
-New lens coating discussions (commercials)
-etc...(commercials)


What would be the type of CEU hours you would REALLY like to see/hear? Opticians talking about fitting athletes? Basic old-school optics? Sales tips? Business tips?

I've recently sat through some snoozer of CEUs, and have an idea what I'd like to see, but what about you all?

[Optician1960]

IMHO: The hands on training cont ed that I have observed was really well done: Fitting and adjusting 3 piece rimless (using someone else's frames and Rx lenses). Two other courses that could benefit many opticians: class on Lensometry/final inspection for Optimized Rx's and a class on measuring customers for Optimized Rx's (vertex, pano, panto) both manually and digitally.
One more... A class/round table on defining rules for opticians that "truly" protect the public.


That is a start...

[SharonB]

From both a presenter's view, and an attendee's view:
My most successful programs (presented) were on pediatric dispensing, color vision, geriatric dispensing, optical ethics, basic refraction techniques, and a lens tinting/selective filtration workshop.
As an attendee: I never want to go to another PAL program again. And I tire of the lens companies' digital lens programs. But...I do sit through them to get the credits.
What would I like to see/hear?:
More about POW measurements, and more about practice management in a world with multiple apps and online vendors. Also, what about the basics like ocular anatomy and physiology? Diseases and conditions? OK - just my thoughts.

[Randle Tibbs, ABOM]

i would be interested in seeing CEU's pertaining to disease that prevents achieving 20/20, true digital PAL technology (but not from a manufactureres point of view ), low vision fitting and dispensing, lens form and to keep up with todays digital world, more on networking to improve ones business.

Randle

[jherman]

History, processing in the 50's.

[Craig]

I did a CE program in Florida a few years ago that dealt with; How to dispense only premium lens products? It was well received and blew most of the class away because it was so far from what they do on a daily basis. They came up to me after and could not believe we only sell premium products.
We need to teach opticians that sales is a good word, not a bad thing. Think about it. If you do not sell, you do not serve your clients. They will tell you what they want if you educate them properly and then pay accordingly.

We need role-playing to help take opticians out of their comfort zone and to stop being order takers.

[mervinek]

Most classes are designed more for entry level opticians. I have been in the business for years and would love something I would acutally learn from. Some kind of masters level class. I attended a problem solving class years ago. I thought it would help with solving specific patient symptoms. (pt sees this, then check this. pt has prob with that... then check that) Instead, the entire course was about listening to your patient. Granted, that is important...but it wasted my time. All I got out of that one was the credit!

[Johns]

All excellent points! I couldn't agree more. Why are we teaching to the lowest common denominator? What we need is the option for "premium" CEUs.

Keep the ideas coming!

[mervinek]

I read a great article about AR cleaners. It was acutally very informative and helped me a lot with my selling technique. I would say I sell at least 4 times more cleaner now because of that article. That was definitley worth the 1 CEU!

[wmcdonald]

All excellent points! I couldn't agree more. Why are we teaching to the lowest common denominator? What we need is the option for "premium" CEUs.

Keep the ideas coming!

John,
ABO/NCLE long ago established a tiered system with advanced level CEs, etc. But unfortunately most of the audience has no idea of what is being discussed in more advanced classes. The vast majority can't employ Prentice's Rule or find the power of a lens in a meridian, so more advanced topics are rocket science to most. An example: a recent class I conducted included what I though was very basic material, a review of basic optical formulas. About 50% of the class rated the it advanced, a fairly large number of folks though it too basic, and the rest were in the middle. This is common. How can we prepare CEs (which stand for continuing education, right) for folks with no education to begin with?

Another issue.......licensed states have boards who are much like the Gestapo. Physicians, ODs, etc. can go to selected CE opportunities, and complete courses of interest to them. School teachers are the same. In our case, the state boars, consisting largely of folks with high school educations have decided a set number of hours each year is required. They vary across the country, but it is 8 here in NC. Folks go, sit there for 8 hours, and are required nothing but attending for 50 minutes/hour and getting the certificate of attendance stamped. Research indicates little is retained during that day, and the only real benefit is to the sponsoring organization who profits form the courses. Why does the leadership of these outfits not ask those in education to design appropriate presentations for the audience, and let them really learn something of benefit? I suspect they fear they might lose their sphere of influence.........their power, if you will. We can do better. I am really my long-held stance regarding the issue of licensing. Who truly does it serve?

Until we get some commonality in our background and training, we will always have this vast disparity of knowledge, skills and abilities. I have almost given up on my dream of education for all Opticians. It just does not work, unfortunately. Most Opticians either see it as a threat, because they lack education themselves, or do not see the need in it, which indicates to me a complete lack of respect for their own field of endeavor. But.......be that as it may, we must establish some legitimate national approach to common ground for all Opticians. Then we can develop a continuing education program to really address your issue. It is a good question, and I hope this presents one approach to the answer. I know some only see us as salespeople, and they are close to right in many instances, but we can be more if we choose to do so.

I am rambling. CE is an interesting topic, and I thank you for posting it.

[NUECoptical]

IMHO: The hands on training cont ed that I have observed was really well done: Fitting and adjusting 3 piece rimless (using someone else's frames and Rx lenses). Two other courses that could benefit many opticians: class on Lensometry/final inspection for Optimized Rx's and a class on measuring customers for Optimized Rx's (vertex, pano, panto) both manually and digitally.
One more... A class/round table on defining rules for opticians that "truly" protect the public.

+1 to all of these ideas! I think hands on training is always beneficial and could benefit the newbies very well. It would also give the more experienced people a chance to share their knowledge and training with others.

[NUECoptical]

I did a CE program in Florida a few years ago that dealt with; How to dispense only premium lens products? It was well received and blew most of the class away because it was so far from what they do on a daily basis.

I think something like this would be helpful as well. I sometimes catch myself slipping in to what I call the "Walmart mentality"-trying to make the least expensive pair for a patient possible, but then remember their vision will be best with quality premium products. Learning other techniques for presenting the premium items without the patient getting sticker shock or getting overwhelmed by information would be a good refresher course.

[Johns]

I have almost given up on my dream of education for all Opticians.

That's what I've been thinking. Why try to teach to "all" (o)pticians. Why not gear it towards Opticians (like those here), that really want to learn something?

[Diane]

That's what I've been thinking. Why try to teach to "all" (o)pticians. Why not gear it towards Opticians (like those here), that really want to learn something?

Nothing would make me happier than to be able to "Teach" at an advanced level all the time. Then I hear people ask (even on here)... where can I go online for "free CEC's" so that I can renew my license/certification. It shows that more people are interested in what they "HAVE" to do rather than learn. I also go to events and hear the person announcing me or other speakers this way..."This is....., they will be giving your CE's today". What in the heck are CE's? It should be continuing education, and when we start feeling that way as a whole, the bar will be raised. It's not about what we have to do, but what we decide is right for our patients and for us. We need more knowledge...higher knowledge. I believe that it can be done, but it will come at a cost to us. Education/knowledge is not free...

Who on here would be willing to step up and pay for higher levels of continuing education? If there are 200 people in a continuing education venue, fewer than 5 show any interest in higher levels or even workshops...:( Why? They want to be entertained, not educated, and many of them only want the presented to present what they (the attendee) already knows, to demonstrate how intelligent they (the attendee) is. If someone teaches above that....:(

Diane

[Johns]

Who on here would be willing to step up and pay for higher levels of continuing education? If there are 200 people in a continuing education venue, fewer than 5 show any interest in higher levels or even workshops...:( Why? They want to be entertained, not educated, and many of them only want the presented to present what they (the attendee) already knows, to demonstrate how intelligent they (the attendee) is. If someone teaches above that....:(

Diane

In Ohio, there are spectacle licenses, contact licenses, and combination licenses. Sunday I attended some contact hours that were attended by people that were genuinely interested, attentive, and engaged. For example, during the scleral contact session, the Q/A portion went over, and more than once, the presenter was stumped (not a bad thing), and promised to e-mail answers to questions he didn't know. That's how it should be.

[MakeOptics]

the presenter was stumped (not a bad thing), and promised to e-mail answers to questions he didn't know. That's how it should be.

I was contemplating writing something a few times about a very similar situation, but I never receive an e-mail response after the CE is over and once I even got a response telling me that the data presented he was not allowed to share with me, sorry. It's a big FU, when I pay for a hotel and along with others pool my money together to hire a professional and that professional doesn't deliver. I don't expect anyone to have all the answers, but if you say your getting back to me I take that as you are going to get back to me, not as a this was the nicest way I could say get lost buddy your ruining my gig.

I have found that the cost of CE's, in both time and money is high when the information is sparse. I will bone up on the subject before I go to a CE so I don't waste the speakers or my time with elementary questions especially when the subject is a difficult topic, it would be nice to expect the same from the speaker. I have found most CE's are entertainment or run that way, the one place where even I try and behave professionally.

[Johns]

... I don't waste the speakers or my time with elementary questions especially when the subject is a difficult topic, it would be nice to expect the same from the speaker. I have found most CE's are entertainment or run that way, the one place where even I try and behave professionally.

No, this was not of the entertainment variety. It was about fitting kerataconus patients that present other contraindications to cl fitting, and what studies have been done pertaining to those instances.

[MakeOptics]

No, this was not of the entertainment variety. It was about fitting kerataconus patients that present other contraindications to cl fitting, and what studies have been done pertaining to those instances.

That sounds great but if the presenter doesn't want to tell you which studies he got his information from then your at a brick wall going to this CE. I am glad you had a great experience I have found that most of the CE's that I have gone to are lacking and the follow up is lacking. I stopped paying for CE's not because information isn't worth it, but because the CE's didn't provide enough information and gave me no way to explore further. A properly put on CE should not be the be all end all but the beginning. Most CE's I have had access to are trying to sum things up, I want more.

It sounds like you had a great event, you should definitely post that presenters CE and their name. It would be nice to know which CE's have meat on the bones.

[Johns]

That sounds great but if the presenter doesn't want to tell you which studies he got his information from then your at a brick wall going to this CE. I am glad you had a great experience I have found that most of the CE's that I have gone to are lacking and the follow up is lacking.

He wasn't even sure if a study exists for the hypothetical that was presented. Everyone thought he had an honest approach to the material, and like many of us, didn't pretend to know absolutely everything there was to know on the subject. We all got our money's worth.

[uncut]

For opticians only:

(For those of us that still attend CEU hours, instead of taking them online)

I think we have a pretty good idea of what we DON'T want to see/hear at CEU seminars, and they include

-Progressive lens design discussions (commercials)
-New frame material discussions (commercials)
-New lens coating discussions (commercials)
-etc...(commercials)


What would be the type of CEU hours you would REALLY like to see/hear? Opticians talking about fitting athletes? Basic old-school optics? Sales tips? Business tips?

I've recently sat through some snoozer of CEUs, and have an idea what I'd like to see, but what about you all?

I don't mind some of the "commercial" presentations..........if only the presenter would leave the corporate tie at home, roll up their sleeves, and be reallly honest, and candid, and add helpful inside tips, instead of the corporate mantra, and the glossy brochure.

I believe in the "see one, do one, teach one method". Talking or listening is only a partial way to learn, and you need to incorporate more senses. I'd like to smell some of the stuff! That would be memorable!

What I am trying to say is....if you think about some of the more memorable CE hours you spent, they were often more than just listening to someone, with a power-point presentation!

We need an Optical International Olympic-type Competition, perhaps. I will enter in the Nylor Cord Replacement competition, or the Multiple Edger Production Event!

[blindboy]

Great thread, Johns!

[idispense]

I would like Bruce Bergez to teach us marketing and asset protection, seriously.

[idispense]

I would also like to see courses as follows:

.... importing optical products from overseas

.... how to do custom designs like Billy Brock

.... how to manufacture your own full metal clip ons

.... how to remove a frame manufacturers labels and relabel the frame

.... how to go public to raise funds

.... how to shoot frames photographically for web site presentation

.... how to develop your business for sale to a chain store or lab upon retirement

.... shall I continue ?

[idispense]

whoops , ALMOST FORGOT THIS ONE ! wHEW

..... 3 D PRINTING , WHATS POSSIBLE AND HANDS ON DEMOS

.... how to turn your optical business into a subscriber based model with annual recurring income.

.... think tank to rewrite the laws in licensed states and be prepared to write the laws into unlicensed states

.... how to create true accountability and transparency in governing organizations and insist on it

[Now I See]

I know this is a couple of weeks old, but thought I might chime in, too....

I would like to see more business and management classes, or maybe a class on how Optician's fit into today's Optical Model, as dumb as this may seem, I think we could use a class on what, exactly, we do and why Opticians are a benefit and how to promote ourselves. And any "hands-on" class would be a plus. Soldering, adjusting, CL IRH, edging...for me, classes like that would be worth the extra cost.

There was a comment made earlier RE: the Board's being like the "Gestapo" when it comes to CE...at the risk of needing a seriously major flame suit, I'd like you to think of it from the Board's point of view for a minute. In our state, the Board votes on the CE classes that they will allow, they also monitor many of the classes in order to give the CE presenter feedback and to be sure the Opticians are getting the education that was promised and they aren't getting pushed into an over-crowded room with no breaks, just to "get through" the 8 hours. Organizations that wish to put on CE courses are required to submit their presenter's resume and the course outline in writing. This is what the Board members have to go on when they vote. I have been in classes where I thought "why would the board approve this class?" only to find out that what was presented was not as it appeared in black and white. The other issue is that there are only so many organizations willing (or able) to find educators that have informative, qualified speakers that have new and interesting courses....this is why having OPTIONS is important. Which is also why our state board allows some CE classes from VEE and VEW...gives the optician alternative avenues.

As far as educators go, I have been in classes where I felt that the educator saw us as inferior...like if someone had a question, they would get "the look" (you ever seen "the look?" it's the one that says "how can you not know that, this is such a waste of my time" without any words being said. It's scary...it'll even stop a "chatty cathy," like myself from asking questions ) I have also been to classes where you could tell the educator was teaching the class without thinking "are these people even worthy of my time?" These are the best classes, they give you lots of information, and make you want to do more research.

Johns, please forgive my post, as I've gone off track a little....I do think having more CE options are worth-while and appreciate you starting this thread...