Hipaa violation?

**Huffam** · 02-04-2013, 08:38 PM

ok so..... i am working in the lab on an order, i am the only optician on the clock. a customer comes into the shop, i say "i will be with you in 15 seconds please wait right there for me." the customer then walks right into the lab and up to me. i turned around and told him he could not be in the lab, and he needed to wait outside like i had asked. he then started asking all these stupid questions instead of exiting the lab. i then told him that we have lots of protected private information in this area and he needed to leave the lab. i walked up to him and through proximity edged him out of the lab. this was last friday. TODAY this awesome individual comes in and complains about my telling him to get out of my lab, telling my Dr. that i "verbally assaulted" him by getting up and walking him out of the lab after i told him he needed to leave. does anyone have my back or am i just an *******? i mean when you go to a restaurant you dont order a steak then let yourself into the kitchen to talk with the cook, you dont go to a theatre and welcome yourself to the projectionists booth.

am i an *******?
is having this guy in the lab a violation?
did i "assault" this P.I.T.A?
is this so commonplace i should start looking for a new line of work?

thoughts, and input welcome.

p.s. it drives me NUTS how people think they are welcome to every part of this building and they claim they are just being "friendly" by walking into restricted access areas to just chat. when i was deployed even the ENEMY knew not to just walk up to our gates and strike up a convo......... STAY OUT OF MY LAB!!!!!!!!!!

**uncut** · 02-04-2013, 09:27 PM

I usually try to explain that the presence of a stranger in the laboratory...................makes the hamsters running on the wheel treadmills, that power the equipment nervous, and that they bite!

If that doesn't work, I put on a goalie mask and pick up the chainsaw!

Seriously, post employee only areas, this makes your insurer happy, gives employees secure and safe areas to store personal items, including purses, even in lockers. Theft occurs, everywhere. The signs give you the authority to inform anyone, including this jerkl, to BACK OFF, or else. Your employer should reward you, .....seriously!

If you get penalized, post it here and we will.........assist.

**MikeAurelius** · 02-05-2013, 08:29 AM

"Trespassers will be violated" is one of my favorites.

But seriously, not only HIPAA, but your business insurance most likely does not permit "civilians" in the working areas of the lab. Are you physically larger or smaller than the intruder? If you are larger, there *could* be a case made for intimidation, but not assault. The intruder is a blow-hard. If your doctor is smart, he will ignore it and give you a pat on the back. And post those signs!!

**scriptfiller** · 02-05-2013, 08:48 AM

Just tell them that you are mentally deranged after years of inhaling lab chemicals and cannot be held responsible for your actions.....

Or, just take the lid off your neutralizer bath and they will flee in seconds! Or, start cutting a 1.67 or 1.74 job they will flee in seconds...!

Break out the BAD lab scents!

**vcom** · 02-05-2013, 10:15 AM

I'm sure there is a privacy violation, but I'd be more concerned about the safety/liability aspect of having a patient in the lab. Lot's of sharp tools, chemicals, stuff that requires MSDS, safety goggles, and a certain amount of training to operate safely.

I believe you are well within your rights to politely, yet firmly ask/escort patient out of your lab. As long as you didn't use physical force, or derogatory language, I see no issue. I think posting signs is a great step, but shouldn't be necessary. I haven't seen signs at the bank telling me not to, but we all know how the Bank would react if I just strolled in behind the teller's counter and starting chatting them up.

**Ironhorse** · 02-05-2013, 10:39 AM

and I thought i was the only one who felt this way!! Get out of my lab!! Spot on.

**rbaker** · 02-05-2013, 12:33 PM

Things sure have changed . . . Back in the day we frequently took customers into the lab to observe the fabrication of their eyewear. The customer was always impressed and the typical comment was "I didn't realize that there was so much work involved in making my glasses!" It was one of the things that built a very successful practice. If one of the most important duties of the optician is to educate the consumer how does putting the lab off limits help.

I guess that paranoia trumps common sense in todays world.

**sharpstick777** · 02-05-2013, 12:58 PM

There is not a a violation of HIPAA simply having your customer in your lab, however, patient names are protected under HIPAA, so if your trays or job tickets with patient names should not be visable. However, HIPAA has ruled that using patient names in the waiting room and calling them for their exam is not a violation of HIPAA, so its unlikely to ever be enforced.

If the patient walks in uninivited, you are not responsible if you ask them to leave. You won't be fined.
If you invited them in, and PHI was visible, you could be.

Just inform your patient that "this area contains confidential health information that is vigorously protected by law, and your uninvited presence would expose you to possible violation of law and litigation."

**Barry Santini** · 02-05-2013, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by rbaker

Things sure have changed . . . Back in the day we frequently took customers into the lab to observe the fabrication of their eyewear. The customer was always impressed and the typical comment was "I didn't realize that there was so much work involved in making my glasses!" It was one of the things that built a very successful practice. If one of the most important duties of the optician is to educate the consumer how does putting the lab off limits help.

I guess that paranoia trumps common sense in todays world.

Huh! I rountinely have clients come back and watch...especially young kids> They luv seeing how their glasses are made.

B

**becc971** · 02-05-2013, 01:07 PM

I get very uncomfortable when customers follow me into the lab. If we invite them, that's something different (i've had kids come in to watch the edger and stuff) but i don't like having people watching me do stuff a lot of the time. Call it stage fright. but i have asked people to leave before, even if tehy're just being friendly. usually i need to concentrate, not do small talk!

**vcom** · 02-05-2013, 01:10 PM

I don't mind people watching the process, but not from inside the lab. I've been a lab tech in numerous labs, and most have a big window so patients can see your every move. Affectionately referred to as "The Fish Bowl" or my favorite, "The Zoo". Of course there is a draw back to all this 'visibilty', like the time my edger vacuum motor caught on fire while the patient was watching me edge his special order lenses that he had waited weeks for. Let's just say it's a good thing he couldn't hear through the window too.

**jefe** · 02-05-2013, 01:21 PM

I don't mind it if someone watches the edger in action -- IF I invited him to come into the lab. When someone tries to walk into the lab uninvited, I will get them to leave -- usually by walking up to them and standing in their way and getting into their personal space.

**Huffam** · 02-05-2013, 02:54 PM

thanks for the feed back, keep it coming lol, we have employee only signs posted, but surprisingly the people here must all be illiterate :( i dont think they will actually come after me for "assault" or anything for that matter, that was just what was told to me by the manager after the PITA cried and cried about the incident to try to get everything for free. anyway, at this point i am not going to say anything to anyone who just wanders in past all the signs. if they get hurt playing in the lab, its not my responsibility to remove them from the area, i will remove myself from the lab before i say anything to a non employee for entering un invited after the backlash i received on this matter. at least thats what my superiors believe i should do. so..... hope they enjoy a suit after some yahoo starts touching stuff unsupervised in the lab.

**Diane** · 02-05-2013, 06:13 PM

Didn't we just have this same thread?

Diane

**theGross1** · 02-06-2013, 02:45 AM

Our labs are allowed to invite people to come into the lab to watch. They must wear protective eyewear. I don't do it very often but if they seem interested enough then it adds to their experience. Its a whole different story if they invite themselves in.

**Huffam** · 02-06-2013, 01:48 PM

thanks you all again for the input, i have shown my Dr. this thread and he apologized to me so that's a victory as far as i am concerned! anyway, i do allow people into the lab from time to time when they want to see all the "magic". but i invite them and they wear PPE. my problem is with people who just let themselves into my lab thinking the have free reign wherever they want. everyone have a great rest of the week, the weekend is closing in on us! yaaaay!