You can't reason with someone who buys online. They have such poor judgement. They only see money. Ironically, jut like the people who run the onlines. The worst kind of people really.
You can't reason with someone who buys online. They have such poor judgement. They only see money. Ironically, jut like the people who run the onlines. The worst kind of people really.
Robert I think you can reason with them if you spare some time to explain them what makes your store more valuable. I believe people go online because they don't know the differences in quality between the products, services, and lenses offered.Originally Posted by Robert_S
...nor with one who SELLS online.
Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry
St. Louis? By the Arch? Hmm...I think we can make that work!
Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry
Buying eyewear online is ........ No big deal. Anything, and everything can and will be purchased online.
I prefer to do shopping online for a lot of things. Yes I know, glasses are different. I agree with that to an extent.
Im not from the, they're a medical device crowd who won't budge. They make those who cannot see, see. There should be options from which consumers can choose.
Without competition, poor competition, there wouldn't be so many new "lifers" coming to me with their problems.
As long as online is here, we'll be! It's not the other way around. Another avenue for people to fill a need. This just happens to be an outlet that helps more than it hurts.
Oxmoon,
If you had a great experience online - fantastic, glad it worked for you. But aside from that it's offensive to most of the professionals who come together here. It's our livelihood and what we have devoted ourselves to being good at. 40 - 50 years some of us. We genuinely think we have something greater to offer people than the best price or eliminating "greedy middlemen". We are the real deal and I guarantee that you would have a better experience with any of us over the Zenni experience you are satisfied with. I invite you to try my store in humble Olyphant, PA if you're game. But good luck to you anyhow and again congratulations on your sucessful online experience. Consider something though - are you contributing to your future unemployment? Is what you do to earn a living so cheap? Me, I think what I do is more valueable.
Online is just another option, ECPs' biz will stay for a long time, small chains will close down some locations, that is my prediction. For normal customers or patients with tight budget, they do not care too much about the brands any more. Clear vision and some fashion look are enough for most of the buyers, no matter where they buy from.
The market is changing, the behavior of the customers is changing, everything is changing since the inception of the online business.
On par with Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and Pol Pot? To say they're the worst kind of people seems to be a gross exaggeration.
Welcome to literal land!
Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry
Maybe I had too much coffee.
I hear a lot of "DISADVANTAGES" than "ADVANTAGES" in buying glasses online. Here in Saipan and Guam how often we helped consumers/ patients bought glasses online and miserable. Either, something wrong with the measurements, wrong choice of frame, and glasses didn't last long. Majority of them did not complain to those companies but they came to us.
Last edited by erwoks; 12-12-2012 at 08:16 PM.
All of this rhetoric is interesting banter back and forth. But really, if you are working in an optical establishment in a professional atmosphere then you might be inclined to go to an optical show where you can view, touch, examine and try on frames while at the same time learn about the industry you are in. Why would you want to try five frames at a time not knowing if they have a chance of fitting you. This may be a good time to petition your state legislature for enact some type of licensing statute. So you may receive a proper education in the ophthalmic science field.
I believe that this idea is too late in this game. Who would you want to regulate ? The labs that do the jobs for the on-liners, the on-liners themselves ? How would you stop them from sending orders out to their customers ?
In all non regulated States or Provinces, non professional opticians have existed for years or new ones are popping up. The British Columbia government has just deregulated the optical profession. It has become a free for all and will get worse.
There are so many opticians that have a lab do the whole job and they just pass it on to the consumer at the same markup as the full fledged store that has invested a ton of money for a modern edging lab and does his own finishing where a regular optical markup came from. Many opticians also do not even own their frame inventory on their frame boards. These samples belong to the distributors and are owned by the frame companies which inflate the purchasing price tremendously.
Good optical professionals should sell and charge charge for their time a rate that is worth their time. It will not be long until on-liners will realise and discover that opticians will also do a job for a charge of time spent on it. So do lawyers and doctors as well as electricians and barbers.
I am not certain what is going on in British Columbia matters what is going on in the US. It would seem to me that regulating opticians like optometry or any other profession that requires a certain level of knowledge and skill would be the key. You really can not regulate the labs, they dont deal with the public. The optician is the last link from the prescription to the patient, so they are ultimately responsible. Who do you complain to when WP or www.xyz.com make the glasses wrong. The consumer gets the smoke and mirror act with the 100% satisfaction guarantee. The guarantee is not protecting the consumer, it protects the seller. They screw up and get to hide their problems behind the guarantee. How do we know if the glasses being dispensed are even correct? How many times do we have patients come in and say my vision is perfect, my old glasses work fine, and we exam them and the prescription is not even close. Patients really dont know if the glasses are right or wrong. They may put them on as think, hmm this seems ok, and they arent even close. Regulation for opticians ensures someone will be held accountable when a pair of glasses with 4D of base up prism with 3D of base out or a -6.0 ou is being done correctly. Our field is not a hit and miss, throw it out there and lets see if it works. Patient's are tempted by price and hope it works. Hopefully folks will realize they will get what they pay for and see the value in being professionally fit for their eyewear. It seems ludicrous to ask an individual to ask their spouse, friend or themselves to take their own measurements. It seemed like the person you responded to was suggesting to the individual in Missouri who was being questioned about sizing a 3 piece mount might not have his knowledge questioned if he were properly trained. Sure it is true in the most basic of situations, a pair of glasses can be knocked out by a lab and sold on line by some non educated web jockey who knows nothing about our profession. If all states would license opticians the individual from Missouri wouldnt be subject having his optical academics questioned. Does that mean that folks in non licensed states know less than licensed states, probably, there are good and bad opticians in both licensed and unlicensed states, but at least the licensed states have some accountability. Which is no doubt the argument by the on line guys. If all states were licensed, the on line guys would have a much tougher time explaining their existence.
Great post.
Lower the price enough, and most americans don't give a rat's ***!
I recently had a pt. come to my office with eyewear she purchased online, very unhappy and wanted to know if I could get her lenses thinner. Her Rx was +3.50 with a slight cyl OD and +3.50DS OS ,+2.50 OU. VA in in OS was 20/200. This was a 3 piece mount, there was a laser mark that read 1.60 I assume that it was made in 1.60 mat., not the right choice for an amblyope. Ready for the best part? The nasal edge of these lenses were 9mm and the temporal edges were 6mm thick! They were slightly decentered nasally but dang, 9mm?!
That is what i am talking about. How would anyone expect to even know a 9mm nasal and 6mm temperal edge is right or wrong if not properly educated and trained. You will always have a muscian who can play an instrument but cant read music. There will always be an exception to the rule. But in the long run my money and confidence is on the well trained professional. We get questioned about price all the time. I mean really, how hard is it to shove a frame in a box, put a stamp on it and your responsibility ends there. I am quite sure these online guys are here to stay. They will use their "blood" money earned on line to open retail outlets, eventually hire licensed people in each state that requires it and extort their licensed employees to sign their name and license number to somehow validate their online business. Putting quality people into early retirement.
Online eyewear is currently "owned" by web-based, pure internet players. Mostly non-professional, eyeball-grabbing, money-losing, venture capital spending, jump-on-the-bandwagon prospectors. When professional optometrists and opticians, with real practices and licenses eventually figure out how to properly leverage the online opportunity, which is massive, they will take back what is naturally theirs. Yes, having a proper website, and even an ecommerce solution is a fantastic idea, and is definitely the way of the future. If you think otherwise, I believe you will begin to circle the drain very soon.
This what surpises me to no end (and yet doesn't at the same time). I deal with many UAW workers or retirees. By and large they are the ones who request their Rx so they can buy online (probably direct from China) and they do not see the irony in this.
coco - great post, and great observation! almost poetic.
If Independent ECP's, labs and frame suppliers don't come together soon with a joint plan, it will divide the group and pretty soon the labs and frame suppliers will collaborate and begin competing with the BM ECP's and the entire bottom will fall out leaving only onliners, chains and suppliers left on the field.
I've already seen evidence of this up here in Canada...large companies that normally sell frames, accessories, CL's etc., have begun venturing into the wholesale lab side of business and opening their own lab facilities. They are operating as wholesale for now but could be part of their contingency plans and be easily converted to 'self consumer/self preservation' mode if and when the bottom falls out.
Your patients are sending you a message. It's your job to figure out what that message is. Is it...
1) You're charging them too much?
2) They don't see the value in your product?
3) A combination of the above two?
4) Something else?
People do feel ripped off by car dealers though. "Car salesman" is pretty much synonymous with "unscrupulous businessman." Just like they feel ripped off by repairmen (remember the MSNBC series "To Catch a Repairman" or some such thing?), for whom there is a similar, if less culturally pervasive, stereotype. And if the current state of affairs, and ECP's response in general, is any indication, we may very well have an "optician" stereotype in place in the future, with television series depicting slick-haired, white-coated sleaze bags financially manipulating unsuspecting young ingenues. If people are buying into advertising campaigns about unscrupulousness in the optical world, it's because they already have experience to back up that feeling. Successful campaigns are those that take advantage of thoughts, ideas, impulses, and desires that are already there to begin with, and they speak to those things and amplify them. If people are buying into the idea of the crooked optician, it's because somewhere along the line, some experience they've had has already created this idea in their mind.
If we really feel that WP/online has fired a shot in some sort of war for the future of B&M opticianry, it does us no good to tut-tut, stick our noses in the air, and blast down online retail/our patients. Or does the realization not set in that doing so is playing exactly into the image that WP has painted?
Prices are quite reasonable, they do see the value in the products. In fact they want every bell and whistle I throw out there but they don't want to pay for it. There is always a certain segment of people with whom no valid argument, factful presentation nor common sense will make any difference. Thankfully it's a small precentage.
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