fcuk daily

**Adam Simmonds** · 08-08-2002, 04:20 PM

I'm about to have a rant, so please bear with me...

What is it about labelled optical goods? I refuse to stock labelled items like Giorgio Armani, Dior, Gucci, etc., etc., principally because they're made under licence and have nothing whatsoever to do with the original brand. (The fact that they're available everywhere and are generally of poor quality is secondary to my decision). I only stock product that is good because it's good, rather than having some irrelevant label on it.

The latest madness to hit the optical market are Ciba's re-branded fcuk daily contact lenses. For those who don't know, fcuk is the clothing company, French Connection UK, who widely use the fcuk marke because it's so close to the bone. (Which, by the way, I think is brilliant marketing).

What the hell do fcuk have to do with contact lenses?

Rolex is a great brand. For watches. But I wouldn't buy a Rolex car, or breakfast cereal made by Sony.

These companies are ruining their brands by associating product that is not their core expertise.

What seems to be so sad and messed up is that there are obviously people out there who have been so brain-washed that they actually believe that fcuk lenses are better than rival brands purely on the basis of the packaging, for Christ's sake!

Any comments?

**Excel-Lentes** · 08-08-2002, 04:58 PM

Hi there,

I hear you. I personally don't let a designer name brand influence my buying decisions. I do have to admit, some names have a certain aura about them that make people have to have it.

Some of our customers request certain names that we don't carry. If a line of frames truly captures that aura of the name brand (Thalia by Kenmark comes to mind) then it can really work.
After selling Thalia frames we usually get one or two people in the store looking for that frame their co-worker or friend has.
However, I don't appreciate it when the name jacks up the price without significant improvements to quality and style.

The quality and style really has to equal the price for me to want to make a buy / regardless of the name brand.

BW

**chip anderson** · 08-08-2002, 05:31 PM

Buying decisions should be re-selling decisions. Whether we feel the patient is logical on conciderings designers names and licenses is irrelevent. If some idiot will pay you $ 1500.00 for a silver/bone frame and they are happy with it, what's your complaint. Go to the bank and smile. I don't think you should try to force a person in distressed ecconomic circumstance to buy expensive items they obviously cannot afford. But otherwise what's your complaint?

I would never buy anti-bacterial soap, knowing that bacteria counts are the same after washing. If a Chevrolet truck (I have an S-10) suits my needs. I would have no problem sellling a Ferrrari to someone who can afford it. I would not waste my time trying to tell him how much more practical a Ford would be.

Chip

**Maria** · 08-08-2002, 06:40 PM

Fact is, most 20-30 year olds would rather say (and pay for), "Oh yeah, my lenses are French Connection", than "My lenses are Johnson and Johnson, kings of the baby shampoo market".
Yes, it's illogical, but at the end of the day, do you want to turn away trade because you personally think that your patients are posers?

Stock the lenses, and use the profits to buy a 'FCUK Money' t-shirt.

That's a thought, do you think Ciba will have any promotional clothes? :)

**chip anderson** · 08-08-2002, 07:29 PM

Remember back in the days of heavy TV marketing of contact lenses patient's would come in and ask for contact lenes by brand, the very best brand being the one that was putting the most adds on TV at the time. These lenses might not be suitable for thier problem, but they had heard Bausch & Lomb, or Vistakon or whatever and that's what they want. They knew better than you (after all what could you know being in Mississippi? Forty years couldn't possibly tell you as much as that TV comercial told them.

It seems to work tho Vistakon is advertizing the most and sellling the most. Is it the best brand, H___ yes, the man on the TV said so. The doctor paid by the manufacturer said so. The little girl who tells (sells) the "technical information" to the doctor's office said so.

I hate it but selling is selling (lying) and it works.

Chip

**edKENdance** · 08-08-2002, 08:05 PM

I'm of the same sentiment and this might be a good thread to ask this.
It's relatively easy to justify the cost of expensive wireframes what with the finishes that they apply to them etc...
What I find difficult is to explain the difference in price between a low end plastic and a high end one. Is it solely name alone or are there grades of plastics that I have yet to learn. Maybe the cost is reflected in the amount they produce but I'm not sure.

mmmm.sony breakfast cereal

**LENNY** · 08-08-2002, 09:25 PM

I still insist that Panasonic Sereal is beeeeeeeettttttttttttteeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!

**Texas Ranger** · 08-08-2002, 09:32 PM

Spurs, the designer lines you mentioned are quite high-quality products, have recognizable name branding, so command a higher price. I carry them "because" of the quality, not for the "name", and our clients buy them for the same reason. That said, there are "designer" lines that are cr&p for quality! regardless of "the Name", stay with the quality. and everyone doesn't have Dior, Gucci and Armani. you're hurting only yourself by not carrying them.

**Johns** · 08-08-2002, 10:28 PM

I used to explain (educate ? Yeah right...) cusotmers who came in asking for name brands. I'd explain how some companies spent so much on the license that the product was undesirable. I'm sure they were impressed with all my knowlege as they went down the street and bought what THEY set out to buy...from my competition.

Five years ago I put my toe into the designer pond and now I'm swimming in it ! I still sell quality and stay away from fad names
and our bottom line is much better because of it

When people see a big name (not Armani or Gucci...although it's a start) their eyes kind of glaze over and they reach for their charge cards without even thinking. It doesn't even hit them when, after spending $700 on a pair of glasses, they sit on the bus next to a kid with an identical pair without the name, made in Korea or China.

I do agree with the other posts that some people will pay for the name alone, but the biggest money knows quality.

**Homer** · 08-08-2002, 11:28 PM

While our idealistic selves may object to the marketing systems, the point is that most people (even us, if we were willing to admit it) get fcuked by the names that we hold dear.

Philosophy: We not longer communicate technically. We only communicate emotionally. Words no longer can be looked up in the dictionary for their meaning or effect. Words carry so much emotional baggage these days that the "original" or "true" meaning of the words is irrelevant to the communication process.
Only one evening of watching TV commercials will send your technical processors down in a tail spin.

So, If the words Georgio or Dior turn on the e-motor button and they reach for their credit card to pay your salary, are you going to complain? (By the way, this Kansas farm-boy had no Idea what a Dior was, though he thought he might know what a Christian was, but he found that even 30 years ago women were motivated to buy a frame because it was a Dior something or other. I just got used to saying the words. Who in hell is Georgio Armani anyway?)

I don't really like it either. but I do like to eat and think that perhaps I could actually and really enjoy a ride along a beach-front road clad in an Italian sports car with a designer interior.

**Vicki** · 08-09-2002, 07:44 PM

I don't know about the ciba fcuk contact lenses however the office i work for just started carrying the fcuk line of frames about a month or so ago. they've got some decent styles but i'm not overly impressed with them. they are somewhat of a conversation piece when people see the logo FCUK.

vicki

**Johns** · 08-09-2002, 09:55 PM

I don't carry them because of the conversation they might bring up. I like to think our dispensaries have a little more class than to carry a vulgar named product just because some marketing gurus think it's cute (or whatever they think); big sales or not.

**Laurie** · 08-10-2002, 09:19 AM

Hi John,

So far, you are the first optical person I've spoken with who thinks that the fcuk idea is low class and tacky.

I'm not a huge prude, but I think it is low class to use fcuk to get attention.

True optical designers:

Pierre Marly from Paris,

Henri Lieto from Nice,

Gilbert Chamby from Palm Beach/Paris

Maurice Timone from Paris,

Jerry Huang from US, and

Billy Brock from US

These optical designers really have it together.

: )

Laurie

**gebe33** · 08-11-2002, 12:34 PM

I work as an optical modelmaker for 25 years and I know for a fact that brand names have little to do with quality. Some brands bearly bother to look at the product. Thier only concern is the royality checks. Price also doesn't always mean a better product either but the consumer may believe the product is better and be willing to spend more money on it. Many times the exact same product would be sold with different names on it to different customers to varying prices depending on the brand name stamped on the temple.So the buyer must the final word of what a product is worth is them.

**John R** · 08-11-2002, 04:31 PM

Spurs, Being London based you should know as well as anyone that there are them folks who Must Have everything by these designer brands. They are not happy if you give them the same product minus the tag and 50% knocked off the price.. We know they are mugs and could save a kings ransom buying non-branded stuff, but its their choice and if you get to make an extra 1000% profit don't knock it..
You must remember that maybe its not the designer brands that go looking for the products to sell, it could be the frame/lens manufactures who approach them to see if they would be interested in adding their name to something they can't sell.....
Its our job to educate the customers, but after you have told them they still want to spend extra £££ buying fcuk'ed lenses that can be had far cheaper then that's their problem not yours...
Just rub your hands and say "You've been fcuk'ed in by the name"
On a personal note i will not pay extra just to have a brand name on anything....

**Adam Simmonds** · 08-11-2002, 07:11 PM

My point seems to be missed.

I stock Theo, Alain Mikli, LA Eyeworks, Persol, Cutler & Gross, etc., etc all of which are brands that are are designed by optical people, not clothes designers or any other unrelated name.

My average sale is way over £300.00 - you don't need these so-called designer names to make money - there are far better brands out there. So it's got nothing to do with money. It's to do with taste and style and appropriateness. The world has gone mad if it think's that it is acceptable for a clothing brand like fcu-bloody-k to enter the contact lens market.

I disagree very strongly with some of the replies that suggest that I should be an optical ***** and enjoy the riches.

I ensure that my stock is not the same as all the multiples - independent opticians/optometrists should (IMHO) look at the adjective that separates us from the chain stores.

As an aside, and rant number two - I may have to change my name to 'Angry from Primrose Hill' - what really does my head in are all these people who get their poxy sunglasses from the airport or department stores and expect me to make adjustments and repairs even when we don't stock their godforsaken glasses!!!

If you smile sweetly and make the repairs at no charge, they walk all over you.

If you make a small charge, they think you're ripping them off.

If you refuse the repair, they think that you're unhelpful.

I used to do option one, but I was doing about ten a day and enough is enough.

How can you win?

**chip anderson** · 08-11-2002, 07:33 PM

Spurs:

The world has been mad for some time. We have designers who know nothing about the product they "design." We have consumers that think meaningless advertizing frames exceed the test of time and experience and training. "New and Improved"

We have people that are interested in "cash rebates" (this is a way to get around lowering one's price and have it become "usual and customary".

We have government agencies that think precription items that should be custom fitted, followed and supervised can be sold mail order.

We have goverment agencies that think you are not responsible for your own actions (if you fall off the ladder, it's the ladder or the ladder manufacturer's fault.)

This is now the norm for our world, will we regain sanity? Don't try to stop making a living until we do.

Yes the public will probably go for designer contact lenses and swallow whatever the advertizing people tell them makes it better.

There are a lot of people that spend $ 15.00 to $ 100.00 for a T-shirt exactly like a plain one if it has Gibod, or Tommy Hilfiger written all over it. Many such items used to be given away as advertizement, now they are in demand for premium prices.

Chip

**John R** · 08-12-2002, 02:13 AM

spurs said:
- you don't need these so-called designer names to make money - there are far better brands out there.

Well so long as you can educate the customer that branded is not always the best (which we know anyway). Most just want to show their so called friends their nice new designer frames...Some how "Dunelm" dont have quite the same ring a "Calvin Cline" or "Fcuk"

I disagree very strongly with some of the replies that suggest that I should be an optical ***** and enjoy the riches.

Your choice, but we live in a customer driven market and if they want fcuk lenses, why give a fcuk about providing them...

I ensure that my stock is not the same as all the multiples - independent opticians/optometrists should (IMHO) look at the adjective that separates us from the chain stores.

Good way to ensure you dont get draged into the well i can get it cheaper down the road problem.

On your other problem, why not charge them say £10.00 but also give them a £15.00 voucher off their next eye test.
You could also have a sign saying
""We are happy to adjust frames purchased from here FREE, but please dont abuse our service by asking for free adjustments on frames purchased elsewhere""

**chip anderson** · 08-12-2002, 07:27 AM

John R.

Discounting or even offering to discount examination fees as a condition of in-house optical sales is specificly forbidden under Eyeglass I. Big fine, Big Trouble.

**John R** · 08-12-2002, 01:04 PM

Chip, that may be true state side but i'm not so sure about here in good ol' Blighty. We get quite a lot of vouchers offering discounts on glasses and sight tests via the local papers from both the big chains and the smaller independents round here.

**Adam Simmonds** · 08-12-2002, 07:34 PM

John R - Where have you been? This rule is heavily enforced over here. Not that that necessarily stops some of the big boys abusing it every so often.

Nonetheless, blatant offers of free eye exams in return for a sale is definitely not allowed.

(Out of interest, John R, you're a bit of an enigma. Who exactly are you? How are you connected to the optical world? You're not an optometrist or a dispensing optician, according to your posts, so what sector do you work in?)

**paw** · 08-13-2002, 01:35 AM

This may be getting off topic, but regarding adjusting glasses purchased elsewhere, we charge a small service charge and we make no apologies for it.

We are happy to provide service to all, but if a patient saw fit to go elsewhere to get their glasses, then why not get their adjustments there too. If they have the nerve to come to us to get adjustments on glasses purchased elsewhere, then we have the nerve to charge a fee. It's small, mind you, but there it is. No one has complained, they seem to understand.

**John R** · 08-13-2002, 02:10 AM

spurs said:
Nonetheless, blatant offers of free eye exams in return for a sale is definitely not allowed.

Here i go again..

Just because you give a "FREE" Sight test voucher in return for something does not mean you will get a sale. All you are trying to do is increase your customer base. We all know that not every sight test results in a sale of glasses/contacts. Unless you happen to be a journalist looking for a story....
You could make it a £5.00 voucher if you like.

btw, been called many things in my life but never a "enigma" pm on its way..

**handmades** · 09-13-2002, 01:48 PM

I ABSOLUTELY LOVE THE ATTENTION THAT THIS FRAME LINE IS RECIEVING HERE ON OPTI BOARD! I MUST ADMITT I AM A BIT JEALOUS. I DESPERATLY TRIED TO BECOME THE DISTRIBUTOR IN THE U.S. FOR THIS FRAME LINE, BUT WAS 2ND CHOICE TO THE GROUP NOW DISTRIBUTING THE LINE IN FLORIDA. WOW, I ONLY WISH I HAD THE CHANCE TO BE CLEANING UP DUE TO THE PUBLICITY YOU FOLKS ARE GIVING THIS FRAME LINE!

**chip anderson** · 09-13-2002, 06:35 PM

John R:

Don't know about over there. But appearently over here when the state (medicare/medicaid) pays for an eye exam, they pay (apearentyl) only if a refractive error is found. You can bet they all need someting (lots of +.25 -.25's Rx'd).

Chip