What would you do?

[Di822]

Yesterday I sold a pair of Varilux Panamics with a frame...total sale 310.00. This was the second pair I did for this person, so I gave her a 15%discount on this pair. She called back today and demanded that I give her a credit on her Visa and cancel the order. She had just "changed her mind." I explained (calmly) the ethics of doing that, and she didn't care. I even said, " you don't want to do anything that would damage your Dr./patient relationship." Her reply was, I can find another doctor.

Lucky for us, the lab had not begun to generate the lens so we were not charged. But she didn't know that....and she still didn't care. WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE? How far do we let these patients push our buttons? They have learned from some of the big chains that if they act bad enough, they can get anything they want. I hate giving money back when I have done nothing wrong. It seems to me that we lose in a situation like this...whether or not we give their money back.

[sticklert]

Di

There are always many different ways to handle problem people. I always found the best way was not to get defensive in anyway. Most of the time it works out but sometimes you have to cut your losses and move on.

If I was in you place I may have handled it like this.....

After finding out the lab had not started on the job, and since no one was out any cost. I would credit her back and keep a copy of the order in her file and when she is ready to move forward you would process her order. I would make sure that she understood that if the lab had started the job I would not have been able credit her in full. This way you saved the sell but it is just going to happen in a few weeks or few months.

Now, if the lab did already start on the job I would tell her the only thing I could credit her back would be the frame and 1/2 of the lenses to cover the cost and that I would keep the lenses in her file until she was ready to purchase the complete pair. Now you lock her in to come back and she gets almost what she wants and you cover any out of pocket costs.

We all would love to keep the $300 dollar sale, but sometimes unforeseen circumstances come up and our loyal customers make a bad choice. We have to try and be as understanding as possible.

Hope this gives you a different perspective.


Todd

:cheers:

[hcjilson]

As much as it hurts in a case like the one above, Customer Satisfaction should be foremost.It will bring you more business in the long run. How many times have you heard someone say they were in your office because they weren't satisfied with their previous optician.If you satisfy the needs of your customer they'll keep coming back.

If someone asks me what my guarentee policy is, I simply say "Your satisfaction!" And I do mean whatever that takes.Occasionally you have someone who abuses that policy but that happens regardless of what your policy is so don't worry about it. My dad once told me you can make up whatever you lose on the merry-go-round, on the Ferris Wheel!:D :D :D
( I think he was referring to adolescent dating, but the same principle applies)

hj

[Joann Raytar]

If she cancelled before the second pair was dispensed, I would have cancelled the order and given a full refund even if lenses were cut.

I would have asked if she had just changed her mind or if she wanted a second pair but the cost was too much right now. If cost was the issue, I would find out if there was anything I could do to reduce the cost and still supply her with the look or function she wanted. If not, I would just let it go.

Yes, giving full refunds is aweful but sometimes, things happen. At least she was honest up front. It is worse when someone takes a pair of glasses home and comes back a month and a half later with a bunch of excuses why they hate a pair of glasses when really they just didn't want them or would rather have the cash.

[MVEYES]

After 29 years I think I've seen it all. I have had similar situations and like they said you express your regret that they have changed their mind but (outwardly) cheerfully refund and let them know that you will keep their order on hand because if they need the second pair possibly due to loss or breakage you will be able to expedite the order. I also let them know that it is important having a second pair of glasses and the savings of having it on hand can be considerable since overnighting product can be costly. Last but not least explain the quality that they get from your establishment and that quality with regards to your eyes is invaluable.


:cheers: Jerry

[chip anderson]

The Ethics and probably the legality of even insinuating that the purchase of optical products are somehow tied to medical (or optometiric) services is highly questionalble. Your optical department may enforce whatever return or cancelation policies that it deems beneficial, but to tie this to the exam or medical services can get you in a whole heap o' trouble boy. Just because ethics are rapidly disappearing from the opthalmic end of medical services the FTC and other federal agencies are still watching.

Chip

[Pete Hanlin]

As usual, Harry has spoken quite eloquently...

I think the best piece of advice posted here has been "don't get defensive." Upon hearing that she wanted to cancel the order, I would have immediately said, "Let me check with my lab and make sure the order hasn't been processed already- if not, I'll be happy to give you a full refund."

My theory has always been this: I always lose in an argument with a customer.

In this particular case, it costs you nothing to gain the good will of your patient by quickly and cheerfully meeting their (albeit unrealistic) expectation.

I would, however, fully agree with one point you make. We live in a Wal-Mart society (meaning no disrespect to those of us who practice Opticianry and Optometry in WM or any other mass retailer). People want it cheap and fast- and they want very liberal (even ridiculous) return/exchange policies. I suppose the trick is learning how to survive in such a society...

[Texas Ranger]

Di...I have had similar situations, and we need to quickly put ourselves into their shoes; the big problem is timing. I tell folks up front that my order process is tied into the lab via trace and transmit, in order to process the order quickly, if they call the next day, they're likely to already be on the delivery headed for us; the analogy I use is like going to a restaurant and ordering an omlette, once they break the eggs, you're committed. the pts know that their order is "custom" made, and unusable by anyone else. Assume in your situation, the lenses had been ground, and you don't credit her Visa, she'll file a charge protest, Visa will contact you about a chargeback to your account, then you can explain to then how that semi finished lens can't be put back in the box! any more than an egg can be put back in the shell, they won't charge back in this circumstance. by all means refund her for the frame, but not the "cost" of the lenses. it does seem that there was some underlying problem beyond your control, but don' question folks ethics, and there are other ECPs to go to. her spouse or somebody likely influenced her to cancel??

[Darris Chambless]

Ole Tex is correct,

What's done is done and the patient is responsible for it since it is custom ground for them. No one twisted their arm to come in and buy a second pair and I'm sure that once they came in no one twisted their arm during the sales process. Pete is also correct with regard to never winning an arguement with a patient BUT what you have to do it determine if these are the kind of patients you want to establish any kind of relationship with? If this is what they're going to do at another time it costs you money and that isn't worth it in my opinion.

We at The Sight Center have a different approach (but then we're very unorthodox about a lot of things ;) We have had very rare occasions where people do this to us and we tell them that we can refund the frame but the lenses are theirs. We then tell them since they own the lenses anyway they might as well put them in something or once they arrive we can bag the lenses up for them to pick up at their convenience. They usually opt to go ahead with the order or come in and pick something less expensive and are quite happy with it.

Getting defensive screws everything up so don't do it. Tell them like it is and if you've done what you were requested to do don't back down. Never take responsiblity for someone elses indecision because that's a relationship you really don't want to get into.

Take care,

Darris C.

[Cindy Hamlin]

Pete Hanlin said:
As usual, Harry has spoken quite eloquently...

I think the best piece of advice posted here has been "don't get defensive." Upon hearing that she wanted to cancel the order, I would have immediately said, "Let me check with my lab and make sure the order hasn't been processed already- if not, I'll be happy to give you a full refund."

My theory has always been this: I always lose in an argument with a customer.

In this particular case, it costs you nothing to gain the good will of your patient by quickly and cheerfully meeting their (albeit unrealistic) expectation.

I would, however, fully agree with one point you make. We live in a Wal-Mart society (meaning no disrespect to those of us who practice Opticianry and Optometry in WM or any other mass retailer). People want it cheap and fast- and they want very liberal (even ridiculous) return/exchange policies. I suppose the trick is learning how to survive in such a society...

Pete,
No offense taken!

Also, have you been in a Wal-Mart lately? They have toughened up their return policies tremendously. No longer do they get the sun, the moon, the stars and the heavens! It is really starting to change.

I am sure it will take a while for the tides to change outside, but they will change!

[Mikol]

Okay given the scenario.....how many of you would still offer this customer a discount upon her return?

In the past I have had to give the refund but I do not give the whole amount:D my time is worth money too.

Had a client buy multiple pairs for $1400.00 and try to cancel the next day.........I spent over an hour with the guy . His reason for the cancellation was good........" I can get Lasik cheper than your glasses" Well long story short I gave him a refund minus 15%. I felt this was fair and so did he. He has since come in for readers and sunwear.

The more you bend over for some one the quicker they are going to mount you and take you for a ride. When we take the deposit from the customer we now inform them of our " No Refund" policy and that has taken care of little problems like this. Have the policy printed on the store invoice as well as the credit card receipt and this particular problem rarely arises.

Di.......NO DISCOUNT when she returns:bbg:


good luck
Mikol

[LENNY]

People People People!!!

What difference does this make what YOU would do
No difference!!!
Try to not give a refund on an American Express card!!!
They will take the money from your account anyway!
In the last 6 years in my practice i had about 10 customers who went to credit card company and told them either they never bought anything from me or canceled the custom job or after 2 weeks of wearing my glasses were not COMPLETELY satisfied with them.
American expres took back 100% of their charges no questions asked (actualy they did ask for explanations but i doubt anybody listened)
Visa and MC 70%/30% and once they even gave money back to the cardholder and me1!!!
Never happend with Discover.

So no mater what you do if they charge you are rearly win

[PAkev]

Di....

Something I've found to work that I'll pass on.

First of all DON'T CANCEL, tell your lab to put the order ON HOLD and deal with the issue immediately.

There indeed is a reason why she wishes to cancel but at this point you could only make assumptions based upon the little information she offered: Perhaps she got in her car after leaving your office and heard a radio commercial from one of the retail chains that are offering another sweetheart deal. We could go on and on with possibilities.

Next time someone calls to cancel an order pleasantly inform them that you exhausted the time and effort of your professional attention and you will give consideration of an appropriate refund if they exhibit the same coutesy by returning to your place to personally discuss the situation within the next day or two. Sometimes this alone has caused the person to rebound to their first commitment in order to save embarasement.

But when they return, take the person away from other customers and employees or preferrably into an office and let them understand you are not trying to persuade them to keep their order but that it is your goal to meet or exceed their expectations with the quality of eyewear and service you provide. Explain that when someone cancels an order it makes you assume that something has caused your mission to be out of tune with the patients expectations. Finally, explain that as you helped them by discussing their eyewear solutions, they would be mutually helpful in telling you why they really wish to cancel their order. As long as you are genuine they will come clean with you more often than not as you and the patient are able to get the problem off your chest and come to a common understanding.


This approach will provide invaluable information about your competition, employees, and maintain the goodwill of patients as they learn you are sincerely concerned about your business and value patients with individual attention.


Dale Carnegie Class of "88"
Kevin

[John R]

On a personal note, and not being at the sharp end i would have said sorry but your order has been processed and you will have to pay for the lenses. If the frames were a special order (not in your stock at the time) Then you could charge for them as well.
If you are going to have to give her money back dont forget the administration charge for all the trouble you have been put to, say 15% of sale. This should be placed on a sign and all recipts so the customers are aware of it..
Oh and NO discount for the customer who does this ever....

[Alan W]

I'd like to line up some customers and do a Valentines Day.
I'd like to charge every return or cancellation a restocking fee.
I'd like to do thids and I'd like to do that.
But,when the customer tells the credit card company whatever they tell them to block the sale or reverse it or refund it......

They will and you'll have a devil of a time fighting it....right or wrong....ethics or no ethics.

Personally, I would blow it off (refund/cancel/whatever) and move on.

PS When Lenscrafters started . . . and they were commended in a book about it, their unwritten policy was . . .

"We give back dead dogs and babys"

While that may seem a little ridiculous . . . it guided them to the top for a long time. And, I am not mixing up their professionalsim with product quality etc. etc. That's just what it was.

While Walmart may be toughening up . . . Nordstrom's is still number one in customer service. No doubt about it. No questions asked.

The real answer to what is right is where your head is.

[Johns]

The above posts illustrate why some establishments are always crowded when you drive by, while the others only seem to have the occasional customer (probably arguing about a refund).

I'd give the refund and take care of the next customer. I give refunds to anyone who wants one. No questions asked. This year I've given 3, and two of them were suggested by me ! ("Obviously, nothing we do for you will satisfy you...let me write you a check, and and you'll have some money to try somwhere else) I smile ! I shake their hand ! I'm nice to them ! (I never sell them another pair, but maybe they'll still refer customers to me because I was decent to them.) People love to tell "refund stories", but when you take the wind out of their sails, there's not much of a story left.

Life's too short to lose sleep (or customers) over refunds.