Though provoking fiction before the election...

[MikeAurelius]

As I think about the upcoming election, a movie and a book come to mind.

The movie: V for Vendetta.

The book: If this goes on... by Robert A. Heinlein.

If you don't know the movie, essentially it is about an uprising of the people in opposition to a fanatical quasi-religious leader.

I strongly recommend the book as it looks at a future United States with a state religion and its overthrow.

... Both, in my opinion, are cautionary tales.

Our founding fathers kept religion out of our government for a good reason. We MUST continue in their long-standing guidance.

[Jacqui]

Our founding fathers kept religion out of our government for a good reason. We MUST continue in their long-standing guidance.

Yes

[CCGREEN]

Our founding fathers kept religion out of our government for a good reason. We MUST continue in their long-standing guidance.

I strongly agree with you Mike. The problem is that things in this old world keeps changing and we are expected to keep up and adapt with the changes be they good or bad like or dislike.
It will get to the point where the goverment is going to dictiate to us a "Sunday Law" expecting all to worship on Sunday. Mark my word. We may not live to see it happen but all the worldly events that the good book speaks of that will take place before the Sunday law have been taking place just in my short life span.

[MikeAurelius]

There is already a push-back against Wednesday "no homework" and "no activities/sports" requests from the various churches to the schools. School adminstrators are being supported by parents who are saying enough is enough -- that the churches have the weekends, but the week belongs to the school.

Have you noticed that it is no longer manditory that schools serve fish on Fridays? It was when I was in school, but no longer.

[vcom]

I completely agree in the seperation of Church and State, and even as a youngster thought it was odd that the Feds stamp "In God We Trust" on all of our currency. If a US Pres were to close the State of The Union Address with, "May Allah bless America." or, "May Zuess look fondly upon America.", it would cause an absolute outrage. It seems most Americans don't mind the mix of Church and State as long as it's a Christian Church.

And as far as a recommended reading list goes, I'd add a little bit of Philip K. Dick. No other author, in my view, plays with the confused roles of government, police, religion, society, and even gender more than him.

[MikeAurelius]

And as far as a recommended reading list goes, I'd add a little bit of Philip K. Dick. No other author, in my view, plays with the confused roles of government, police, religion, society, and even gender more than him.

Awesome suggestion, thanks!

[Uncle Fester]

From the Sermon on the Mount allegory-

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...-6&version=ESV

I think religion is useful for the more dangerous oligarchy we've allowed to be created since WW 2 from the unholy union of government, banks and corporations. Our world today much more resembles the 1930's and I fear we will have to have another Great Depression before the lower and middle class again wake up and bring the full force of the Glass Steagall Act back. Too big to fail is too big to exist but if we can be so easily distracted by religious wedge issues and your making obscene money from the misery of others and can justify it by calling many lazy victims looking for handouts why not?

[mdeimler]

Our founding fathers kept religion out of our government for a good reason. We MUST continue in their long-standing guidance.

Oh, God. Not this political soap box rant stuff again.

[gmc]

As I think about the upcoming election, another book and a movie series in the works come to mind.

Atlas Shrugged.

[Uncle Fester]

As I think about the upcoming election, another book and a movie series in the works come to mind.

Atlas Shrugged.

gmc- Are you an atheist like the author?

[gmc]

gmc- Are you an atheist like the author?

Not an atheist. I just believe you can tax and regulate producers to the point where they won't be so productive anymore.

[Uncle Fester]

Not an atheist. I just believe you can tax and regulate producers to the point where they won't be so productive anymore.

Back to topic- Ayn Rand would be totally against having God and/or religion mentioned anywhere in government or being used to influence politics. Do you agree?

[Wes]

Not an atheist. I just believe you can tax and regulate producers to the point where they won't be so productive anymore.

Agreed. We are becoming incrementally controlled by the Marxist/socialist/communists every day, and their most effective weapon is Political Correctness, which is just modern communist thought-control propaganda.

Back to topic- Ayn Rand would be totally against having God and/or religion mentioned anywhere in government or being used to influence politics. Do you agree?

Yes.

[Robert Martellaro]

As I think about the upcoming election, a movie and a book come to mind.

The movie: V for Vendetta.

A quick check shows a well written script, which is usually enough to get me interested. Thanks for the heads-up.

The book: If this goes on... by Robert A. Heinlein.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_This_Goes_On%E2%80%94

I read a lot of SF when I was a child, much of it re-read later in life, but I've never heard of this short novel by Heinlein. Are we feeling like revolutionists today?

[gmc]

Back to topic- Ayn Rand would be totally against having God and/or religion mentioned anywhere in government or being used to influence politics. Do you agree?

A little late for that isn't it? "We hold these truths to be self evident......"

[Uncle Fester]

A little late for that isn't it? "We hold these truths to be self evident......"

Declaration of Independence mentions a Creator.

Our laws are based on the Constitution and I believe you will not find any Supreme Being mentioned there.
Coincidence? I think not.

Are you sure you want Romney and Glen Beck to eventually become exalted rulers (Gods)?

http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/...becomegods.htm

[gmc]

Declaration of Independence mentions a Creator.

Our laws are based on the Constitution and I believe you will not find any Supreme Being mentioned there.
Coincidence? I think not.

Are you sure you want Romney and Glen Beck to eventually become exalted rulers (Gods)?

http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/...becomegods.htm

I certainly don't want them to become exalted rulers of the United States. Harry Reid either. If that happens in an afterlife, okay by me.

You are correct that the Constitution doesn't directly mention God. But from whom did the founders think the blessings of liberty flowed? Many of our laws, those in the constitution and otherwise come from Judeo-Christian beliefs.

I don't want us to live in a theocracy ruled by the followers of Christ or Allah or any other supposed supreme being.

[Uncle Fester]

You are correct that the Constitution doesn't directly mention God. But from whom did the founders think the blessings of liberty flowed? Many of our laws, those in the constitution and otherwise come from Judeo-Christian beliefs.

I don't want us to live in a theocracy ruled by the followers of Christ or Allah or any other supposed supreme being.

I'm confused. It sounds like you do but only if they agree with your beliefs. Or should all politicians not practice any religion?

Democrats led by Obama want the US to become a theocracy?

[gmc]

I'm confused. It sounds like you do but only if they agree with your beliefs. Or should all politicians not practice any religion?

I don't think I've asserted any of my beliefs. Just observations. I wouldn't presume, as many religious people do, that I know the one true way.

I don't want Mormons governing by their doctrines. Catholics governing by their doctrines. Muslims governing by their doctrines. Evangelical Christians governing by their doctrines. Or black liberation theologists
governing by their doctrines.

[Uncle Fester]

I don't think I've asserted any of my beliefs. Just observations. I wouldn't presume, as many religious people do, that I know the one true way.

I don't want Mormons governing by their doctrines. Catholics governing by their doctrines. Muslims governing by their doctrines. Evangelical Christians governing by their doctrines. Or black liberation theologists
governing by their doctrines.

Now I see. Even though Obama repeatedly disavowed Rev. Wrights sermon about how the black man has for most of American history been abused by those in power and Romney embraces his aspirations to become exalted it's only Obama's former pastors sermon that matters.
Got it!

Off to vacation- may not be on the OB too much.
Kind regards to all as always!

[gmc]

Thanks for putting words in my mouth UF! I explicitly said in my prior post that I don't want a Mormon governing by his doctrines any more than I want a black liberation theologist governing by his.

Obama wants the most productive (and most taxed) to pay more to implement his view of social justice. I'm not sure if this number is accurate or not, but I've read that O's tax increases would net 33 billion dollars (assuming no fall off in economic activity due to the higher rates). That would pay for about 10 days of deficit spending! Woohoo!

[Steve Machol]

Unfortunately these type of politic posts degenerate into partisan arguments and name-calling instead of remaining civilized and respectful discussions among people that may or may not agree on a particular issue. I respectfully ask that people keep this in mind before posting.

[braheem24]

Obama wants the most productive (and most taxed)

Bro GMC, Do you pay a 14.1% tax rate?

[gmc]

Bro GMC, Do you pay a 14.1% tax rate?

If my income was from capital gains, as Romney's probably is, I'd pay a maximum 15% marginal rate. Unless Obama gets his way. Then it would be more.

The top 1% of income earners pay more than 1/3 of the total federal income taxes collected.

And just ball parking it from memory (I don't have my latest tax returns handy), about 14%.

[braheem24]

The top 1% of income earners pay more than 1/3 of the total federal income taxes collected.

They own 42%, I would hope they pay 42% not 1/3. I don't want to pick up the 9% slack for their laziness.