Venting about how my fellow opticians sell AR

[Tallboy]

Its nonsense to think a big money AR is somehow going to endear the customer to the fact that you sell quality. They will scratch a big money AR just like a mid level AR and neither reflects on you or your business.
If that is your stance, then I hope you are prepared to have a car salesman only show you Bentleys and Mercedes, even though you'd be just dandy with a Kia or a Chevy.

I think that metaphor is pushing it a little bit. For years A/R was the bane of my existence. If the "big money" AR you sell scratches just as easily as your mid level AR then you are working with the wrong products.

The lab we use has a GREAT hardcoat A/R for their in house and I love it, one of the main reasons we use them. As for products such as Avance - if you try and tell me that it is the same as Alize or some other A/R then you obviously have never blocked a lens in your life. The hydrophobic qualities of these new ARs blows my mind (and makes me pull out my hair in the lab once and a while )

[CME4SPECS]

Some people will fore go a new frame purchase if they are on a budget, but they aren't always willing to compromise the lens quality. So you are doing them a disservice by not giving them the best. I tell people quite frequently that if they only have so much to spend....spend it on the lenses!

[edk68]

I think that metaphor is pushing it a little bit. For years A/R was the bane of my existence. If the "big money" AR you sell scratches just as easily as your mid level AR then you are working with the wrong products.

The lab we use has a GREAT hardcoat A/R for their in house and I love it, one of the main reasons we use them. As for products such as Avance - if you try and tell me that it is the same as Alize or some other A/R then you obviously have never blocked a lens in your life. The hydrophobic qualities of these new ARs blows my mind (and makes me pull out my hair in the lab once and a while )

Yes, I get it... Good Ar's are better than cheap ar's...hydrophobic, oleophobic, and all that good stuff. What Im saying is THE CUSTOMER's CARELESSNESS and maltreatment will scratch either one and there's nothing you can do about it. Ive seen immaculate looking (wholesale pricing removed) coatings after a year and beat-to-a-pulp (wholesale pricing removed) coatings that the customer still managed to ruin through carelessness. So back to the original point, if they are presenting you with an old frame that has little mileage left on it and they want to reuse it, why give them an expensive 2yr AR? just so they can have an expensive lens with no home once the frame breaks in a few months. Use a lower priced AR or better yet, relegate that junky frame to a sunglass or SV reader and sell them a new frame with your fancy coating. Using a beat up POF means they can't afford a new one. A lower or mid-level AR will serve them just as well. Not everyone needs top shelf all the time.

[finefocus]

I don't get what the frame has to do with this. We're talking about lenses. If you're going to coat, then coat with a good product. Why would the frame's condition matter? If the thing breaks, put the lenses in a new frame. What's so complicated about that?

[edk68]

I don't get what the frame has to do with this. We're talking about lenses. If you're going to coat, then coat with a good product. Why would the frame's condition matter? If the thing breaks, put the lenses in a new frame. What's so complicated about that?

The frame's condition does matter. If it breaks, put the lenses in a new frame? Ok well that sounds good except you can't replace a disco frame that's been gone for years...so a new frame is out of the question. Then you are left with "making something work." How are you going to do that and still preserve the original seg ht, pd, and axis? Sure you can shove the million dollar coated lenses in a similar shape and say here you go sir. But doing that or cutting them down to a new shape inevitably compromises something from the original order. It has to. Something's gotta give and its usually the quality of their rx in a made-to -work frame. That's not helping the customer in the long run. Bottom line- should not be reused or put expensive lenses into. If worse comes to worse, I've "donated" a disco frame to the customer just to not have them use a junk frame again. Even our lab has called our office and said politely...Why did you approve this garbage frame for a new rx? They don't want to deal with it either.

[Uilleann]

The OP's ongoing diatribe seems almost trollish here. FF really sums it up succinctly:

I don't get what the frame has to do with this. We're talking about lenses. If you're going to coat, then coat with a good product. Why would the frame's condition matter? If the thing breaks, put the lenses in a new frame. What's so complicated about that?

The answer...NOTHING. It really is that simple.

[nicksims]

Finefocus-

You wrote very succinctly what I was thinking. I was too wordy!
Thanks.
Now Seymour, keep the rants coming! Seriously. We all need to rant.

[Browman]

What upsets me is when an optician tries to sell a patient a coating beyond their needs. I recently watched in helpless horror as one of my coworkers silver-tongued a stay-at-home-dad with a -2.00 RX into Sapphire with Optifog and XTra-Active in 1.74 just to make a high-dollar sale. Other than taking care of the kids and a daily jog, all this poor shlub does (by his own admission) is watch television all day. Now, I've sold these products before-- to people who would actually benefit from them, not just to those who could foot the bill.

[Barry Santini]

Did this happen in Texas?

[Browman]

Yep. Why do you ask?

[anthonyf1509]

1.74 XtraTrans is available SV?

[Chris Ryser]

I guess one could argue that selling that patient any AR is reprehensible!

I thank my lucky stars that we practice in a country where we can sell anything and everything that we damn well feel like!


I say.......be thankful that you are selling something regardless what it is or isn't!

Fezz...................... I just love this post and so is the one from Barry.

Why do Opticians still argue in these tumultous times of cheap internet products about expensive lens treatments and coatings that can only be made on machinery that costs a few hundred thousand dollars and never will make it into a B&M store lab.

Because they are easy income as the multiplying factor is the same as the rest of the glasses. The average consumer is getting more informed day by day and keeps his expenses in check. So why not sell the patient additions the optician or optometrist can apply in house with a few extra minutes themselves. The cost of dyes, UV products antifog products or scratchresistant treatments is minimal per lens and could be done in the time usually spent on the internet for this or that reason.

And all the ones praising these high quality coatings would be surprised to know the amount of AR strippers used in the labs of these suppliers.

[NavyChief]

You can educate & recommend all day. But it finally comes down the what the patient wants.

[becc971]

selling good AR vs lab AR reflects on your business. i have a lot of people who complain about their old AR they got ten years ago, and thos esame people have never come back to have me get them ones without a better quality. right now we're running free lenses with purchase of a frame, and i notice the difference with cleaning the crappier AR vs my avance/saphire. notice i'm not putting the people who qualify for this in the good AR just for the sale, but i can see why people wouldn't want it again its just too hard to clean. the hydrophobic coatings are awesome to me for that reason. but they also fit my lifestyle as i am a bartender and am constantly getting splashed and mauled with booze and mixers. basically it boils down to the fact that there IS a difference between the lab AR vs the branded top shelf stuff. but not everyone needs it either and i understand that.

back to the original purpose of this thread: patients can keep their old crappy frames if they want too, just warn them about what could happen and hope for the best. i have flat out told people i wouldnt use their frames and allowed them to go elsewhere if they didn't like it (more subtly of course :) and they woudl come back to see me after a few rejections, as long as they're informed theres nothin you can do and always make them sign a waiver of responsibility on your part, honky dory

[Browman]

1.74 XtraTrans is available SV?

Gonna be honest and say I don't know. I'm still getting my feet wet in a lot of ways. It's at least what the patient was offered-- and billed for.

[becc971]

Gonna be honest and say I don't know. I'm still getting my feet wet in a lot of ways. It's at least what the patient was offered-- and billed for.

they're not, i tried a few weeks ago

[Happylady]

I just sold a Trivex with Alize in a frame that had to be 25 years old. Really that old! It was horrible looking! I tried to get him into a new frame with no luck. Maybe the frame will last and maybe not but I don't see why I should have sold him crappy lenses just because it was a old frame.

I did make him sign something that we aren't responsible for the frame.

[Robert_S]

I've noticed that a lot of people are reglazing this year. However, I'm slightly surprised by the mostly negative response to this, from my coleagues as well as this message board. Whilst I think that in some circumstances reglazing should be discouraged, in others I think it actually can be encouraged.

Unfortunately, we live in a world where everything is made to be thrown away, from our phones to our cars. But something that is built to high specifications and with high-quality materials, can be said to have been built to last, and I think this is something that we, both as advisers and retailers to our patients, can find some pride in. In my opinion, the highest quality frames are a privelege to fit new lenses into, because your original advice at the initial purchase has not only given the customer great comfort over the year or two they have worn it, but has also ultimately saved them money at the point of the Rx change.

It's just a shame, I suppose, that a lot of patients who are reglazing are not doing it with a high quality frame.

[Judy Canty]

"This frame is exceptionally made. Top-of-the-line (insert material) and a classic design. It is designed and manufactured to last (for not more than 2 years)"

Reglazing is a reality.

[bustedflush]

I have supplied AR for 2 decades.
At one place I worked we offered AR only on customers' own lenses, at own risk. We could clean and coat old lenses, yes looking like they had been driven over, with fresh AR. Like painting over rust, but the customers demanded it occasionally.

[n711]

HELLO PEOPLE!!! Why would you sell a 2yr top of the line AR to a person re-using a crappy POF that's falling apart??
All you did was just guarantee that they won't be back to buy another frame for at least 2 yrs.
If you want to sell them AR...great...just sell a basic AR so that when the lenses scratch or the frame breaks in 8 months they will need to come back to you for a new pair. Then you can professionally say...See, I told ya so. I told you 8 months ago your frame wasn't going to last another prescription. That's why we don't put brand new engines in cars with rusted out bodies. Am I goofy? I can't be the only one that sees this.

This whole statement seems irresponsible... What about PATIENT CARE??!!??!!! It isn't a person's fault that they can't afford a new frame (or maybe they really don't want a new one).... they are spending a ton on lenses.. Isn't the VISION through the lens the most important part. (as long as you can still 'keep the lights on')

I refuse to use standard AR. I am so over pt's telling me they 'hate that stuff they put on my lenses"... it was a crappy product to start with. Times and technology are changing, everyone deserves the best.