They're just too...

[tx11]

Just curious... when it comes to drill mounts what are your clients most voiced reasons for NOT purchasing? Are they too fragile? Too expensive? Too old fashioned looking? Anything else?

[Johns]

At one time, they all looked the same, so people would say they are "tired" of the look. Now, we carry more than 18 different lines that have drill mounts, and they look really unique. The one line we don't carry is Silhouette.

[chip anderson]

For me it seems they have gone the way of magnetic clip-ons, or clip-ons in general for that matter. Most labs are now at least attempting to refuse to make them in anything but Poly or Trivex (otherwise they can't guarantee, as if they ever did against breakage).
Most of the people that tell me they are not interested have had a pair and are now "looking for something more substancial."

[Java99]

"I broke the last pair I had, it came from WalMart."

To which I am usually able to not reply snidely about quality.

[optical24/7]

It's my number one product. Much more customizable than any other frame type, and lighter in weight also, which eliminates many complaints/problems. Easily, 25% of my business. You want a full frame look? Color groove it. Almost anything is possible with rimless. We display a lot of options, including edge tint/facet/stone work.

[Barry Santini]

At one time, they all looked the same, so people would say they are "tired" of the look. Now, we carry more than 18 different lines that have drill mounts, and they look really unique. The one line we don't carry is Silhouette.

Why?

[Johns]

Why?

Why don't we carry Silhouette? Let me count the reasons...

1. They charged me $12 for a $.10 case once.
2. I can get the same quality at a fraction of the price.
3. They have "me too" styling.
4. They rep cherry picks, and if you're not in the upper 20% revenue of accounts, you won't get called on.
5. Their customer service was awful. (I don't know about now.)

[Barry Santini]

Why don't we carry Silhouette? Let me count the reasons...

1. They charged me $12 for a $.10 case once.
2. I can get the same quality at a fraction of the price.
3. They have "me too" styling.
4. They rep cherry picks, and if you're not in the upper 20% revenue of accounts, you won't get called on.
5. Their customer service was awful. (I don't know about now.)

My experience re customer service is quite the opposite. As far as similar quality for less, i haven't seen it (but I'm sure it exists). "me too" styling? When it comes to rimless, methinks there are only so many ways to skin a cat.

Overall, my experience with Silhoutte has been quite positive. We rarely exchange retireed styles. Rather, we offer them at 50% off. Clients love the sale, and will often partner their savings toward the better FF lenses we recommend.

B

[Johns]

My experience re customer service is quite the opposite. As far as similar quality for less, i haven't seen it (but I'm sure it exists). "me too" styling? When it comes to rimless, methinks there are only so many ways to skin a cat.

Overall, my experience with Silhoutte has been quite positive. We rarely exchange retireed styles. Rather, we offer them at 50% off. Clients love the sale, and will often partner their savings toward the better FF lenses we recommend.

B

Like I said, in all fairness, it's been awhile since I've dealt with them, but it was the service and the nickel/diming that drove me away. (I also recall them charging for extra mounting bushings). They may have stepped up the styling (I don't know), but since drill mounts are usually pretty bland on the front, I like some funky temples that have some pizzazz to them. Tom's Designs, Acuity Optical, and the McGee Group have been really great for this category for us.

[becc971]

We've added swissflex and kawasaki as our premium drills, and then add in small amounts from our normal vendors. We use zylowares Sigma and Zeta lines and go through them like crazy, to the point that we order them unassembled when someone orders one and keep the 6 base styles on the boards. I feel like rimless has gone from a "trend" to more of a "lifestyle." some people just love the look and wouldnt buy anything else, others are bored with it. I've used the Swissflex a number of times for the patients who want rimless with some personality since they're so customizable. Although their lab is the most giant pain in the butt and you HAVE to have them done there. well, second most giant pain in the butt, davis is worse.

@johns: we had a very similar situation in our office which is why we do NOT sell them anymore. It is impossible to get a rep to come up and service the account. We finally got him to come visit us, and then he never followed up to see if we wanted to put them back in. Also, everyone and their mother sells them, so we like to be able to offer something different, but with the same quality.

[becc971]

And to answer the actual question: our most common reason is "i need something more substantial" followed by "I want something with a little more personality"

[tx11]

What has been your experience with stainless steeel drillmounts vs. monel dm vs. beta titanium dm vs. titanium dm ? Which do you favor and why?

[chip anderson]

With stainless you can in a pinch at least weld it back together. Titanium if it breaks you need another frame or part. For patients who have to have them to see to drive home and work, this is not a delay they will accept. The manufacturers discontinue them so fast, keeping several of the same style is not practical either.

Some good news: All most all drill mounts with compression mounts use the same distance between the pegs. Silver dollar has some bridges for about $10.00 each (we keep four or five in our parts drawer) and you can get the patient back on the road if they have a broken bridge.

Chip

[Psychobablr7]

Why?

We also have had issues with Silhouette. We have had multiple breakages, multiple discoloration issues, and terrible customer service within the last two years. We love Silhouette and were sad to see them go, but the straw that broke the camel's back was that our rep wouldn't help us. We were told " I don't know what you want from me." lol

[Johns]

Why?

It is impossible to get a rep to come up and service the account. We finally got him to come visit us, and then he never followed up to see if we wanted to put them back in. Also, everyone and their mother sells them, so we like to be able to offer something different, but with the same quality.

We also have had issues with Silhouette. We have had multiple breakages, multiple discoloration issues, and terrible customer service within the last two years. We love Silhouette and were sad to see them go, but the straw that broke the camel's back was that our rep wouldn't help us. We were told " I don't know what you want from me." lol

Barry, I'm thinking that some of the offices suffer from SAS (Small Account Syndrome). I'm not kidding about this. The last time I dealt with Silhouette, I had two offices, and would order no more than 10 pcs at a time. Now, I have a few more offices, and I seem to show up on the rep's radar now.

When I was a rep, I would sell two, three, and four frames at a time. Some of my accounts would buy no more than 50 frames a year from me. O course, you can't live on that, but I good accounts also, and it was all good. There seems to be an OM with "S" that is "go big, or go home". If you aren't making the mortgage for them, they don't have the time of day for you.

Yesterday, I was thinking that maybe it was just this region of the country, but seeing the other responses, I see that it is not only us.

[Psychobablr7]

Barry, I'm thinking that some of the offices suffer from SAS (Small Account Syndrome). I'm not kidding about this. The last time I dealt with Silhouette, I had two offices, and would order no more than 10 pcs at a time. Now, I have a few more offices, and I seem to show up on the rep's radar now.

When I was a rep, I would sell two, three, and four frames at a time. Some of my accounts would buy no more than 50 frames a year from me. O course, you can't live on that, but I good accounts also, and it was all good. There seems to be an OM with "S" that is "go big, or go home". If you aren't making the mortgage for them, they don't have the time of day for you.

Yesterday, I was thinking that maybe it was just this region of the country, but seeing the other responses, I see that it is not only us.

I think that is exactly the reason. I understand the reasoning behind going after the big accounts and spending all their time and money on the bigger practices from a business perspective. But that is still not an excuse to neglect customer service and professionalism when dealing with us little guys. We are still spending our money on the same products. We may be small fish now, but one day we will be big fish and they will want our business.

[SeaU2020]

Like I said, in all fairness, it's been awhile since I've dealt with them, but it was the service and the nickel/diming that drove me away. (I also recall them charging for extra mounting bushings). They may have stepped up the styling (I don't know), but since drill mounts are usually pretty bland on the front, I like some funky temples that have some pizzazz to them. Tom's Designs, Acuity Optical, and the McGee Group have been really great for this category for us.

Wow. I am surprised by this thread....If I have a great month, I sell about 12 Silhouettes, but my rep has visited me 4 times this past year, on his own, and has set me up with great pop, a cutting tool I didn't have, exchanged out 12 pieces to newer temple designs, and a special "book" that has lots more shapes to choose from. All completely volunteered by my rep. A+ service all the way. Maybe I got the one good rep the company has, lol!
I also do great with the Mcgee Group for people on a budget.

[Robert Martellaro]

If I have a great month, I sell about 12 Silhouettes <snipped> A+ service all the way.

Same here.

Maybe it helps that I've been wearing their products for 13 years, my mother is wearing a Minimal Art, and that my father was buried wearing his. Or, that I've privately and publicly proclaimed that the MA (and others) is the best way to place an ophthalmic lens in front of our eyes.

[Psychobablr7]

Same here.

Maybe it helps that I've been wearing their products for 13 years, my mother is wearing a Minimal Art, and that my father was buried wearing his. Or, that I've privately and publicly proclaimed that the MA (and others) is the best way to place an opthalmic lens in front of our eyes.

It absolutely does help to wear the product. I have been wearing Silhouettes since 2005. I own 3 pairs. My Dr. still wears the same TMA from 10 years ago and keeps putting new lenses in that frame. She uses that specific frame as a tool to aid in dispensing from the chair (works wonders by the way when showing pts how awesome Phoenix lenses are!), and both our families currently wear Silhouettes as well. We dont have a problem with selling frames. Up until recently we could not emphasize enough how great the frames were. It seems like the quality has gone downhill in the last couple years and the customer service is no longer a high priority.

[GokhanSF]

1- They make you look 10 years older than you actually are.
2- Not stylish. Not in fashion.
3- Will sell Lindberg if customer insists. Not Silhouette for sure.

[Jamelina]

"They're too fragile" is the primary reason I've experienced. Have you checked out the Tag Heuer line? They're pretty durable for a drill mount. I've really enjoyed mine and did very well with them at a previous office I worked at.

[Barry Santini]

Like I said, in all fairness, it's been awhile since I've dealt with them, but it was the service and the nickel/diming that drove me away. (I also recall them charging for extra mounting bushings). They may have stepped up the styling (I don't know), but since drill mounts are usually pretty bland on the front, I like some funky temples that have some pizzazz to them. Tom's Designs, Acuity Optical, and the McGee Group have been really great for this category for us.

Thanks for the tip, Johns. Maybe I'll take a look at those companies you mentioned.

B

P.S- they still $$$ for bushings. Once, I though about rounding my statement balance down to the nearest whole dollar, and enclosing bushing for the change. They're Silhouette's currency!

[Jubilee]

They won't even sell the bushings to a lab. Got to get them from the client with the account :/

[opty4062]

Interesting thread as we just started carrying Silhouettes for kids this summer at the request of one of your docs who wanted them for her kids. Not one single other person interested in them. Most people think they are too fragile for kids. And the selling point of, "they can grow with your child as they grow..."? Moms say my kids don't like the same thing two days in a row, no way do they want to re-use a frame. :)

[Barry Santini]

Interesting thread as we just started carrying Silhouettes for kids this summer at the request of one of your docs who wanted them for her kids. Not one single other person interested in them. Most people think they are too fragile for kids. And the selling point of, "they can grow with your child as they grow..."? Moms say my kids don't like the same thing two days in a row, no way do they want to re-use a frame. :)

For the Mom's who have to come in to your office to have their young son's metal frames realigned every 3-4 days, there are no better franes than TMA from Silhouette.

B