Making Optiboard a more welcoming place!

**Browman** · 08-01-2012, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by wmcdonald

That is the simple fallacy of the outdated, outmoded, and completely ridiculous system we call apprenticeship. It is nothing more than cheap labor, and the reason some form of education should be required prior to entering this field. Many "opticians" have no clue what they do not know. We are not treating these folks fairly, and are dumbing down the field with each generation.

I think this line of thinking is a fallacy. All of the classroom learning in the world won't do you an ounce of good without the experience to give you a real education. What we need is more experienced opticians mentoring apprentice opticians, not fewer. It's just as easy for there to be an incompetent professor spouting misinformation as there is someone in an office setting. I know; I went to college for six years. I had my share.

My background is in psychology; I can tell you that all of the classroom learning and "education" I received over the course of my four year BS program didn't prepare me at all for actually setting down and dealing with someone suffering from a mental illness. It was that disparity between thinking I was prepared and finding out that no one had prepared me at all that led to my reassessing my career plans and not pursuing a PhD.

**Judy Canty** · 08-01-2012, 11:30 AM

Students who graduate from accredited opticianry programs not only receive clinical experience, they also serve externships in the "real world" every one is so fond of.

I believe there is as much difference between a Psych major with a undegraduate degree and a PhD in Psycology as there is in simple OJT and a degree in Ophthalmic Dispensing.

**TLG** · 08-03-2012, 01:54 PM

removed for irrelevant content - apologies.

**sharpstick777** · 08-03-2012, 02:25 PM

Steve Machol,
We have a great request from Fezz, we have mostly agreement here. But we really have not heard from you?
Since you own this forum, and you alone control its outcome, and you have made a few comments here...

What do you think of the ideas Fezz has requested? Sentiment is one thing, action another.

Where are you on this?

**wmcdonald** · 08-03-2012, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by Browman

I think this line of thinking is a fallacy. All of the classroom learning in the world won't do you an ounce of good without the experience to give you a real education. What we need is more experienced opticians mentoring apprentice opticians, not fewer. It's just as easy for there to be an incompetent professor spouting misinformation as there is someone in an office setting. I know; I went to college for six years. I had my share.

My background is in psychology; I can tell you that all of the classroom learning and "education" I received over the course of my four year BS program didn't prepare me at all for actually setting down and dealing with someone suffering from a mental illness. It was that disparity between thinking I was prepared and finding out that no one had prepared me at all that led to my reassessing my career plans and not pursuing a PhD.

But you had at least some level of understanding. You come from a great place, Texas, but to be an Optician there require the stringent requirement of a pulse. Now there are some wonderful Opticians there, but not many. There IS no one to mentor folks, so some basic level of education and training should be required. Do they need experience? Of course, but doing somethign 10000 times incorrectly does not make it correct.

But as Robert reminded me above, this conversation is away from the real thrust of this thread. Just know that I want this field to improve and the only way is through education and training.

**MakeOptics** · 08-03-2012, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by Judy Canty

Students who graduate from accredited opticianry programs not only receive clinical experience, they also serve externships in the "real world" every one is so fond of.

I believe there is as much difference between a Psych major with a undegraduate degree and a PhD in Psycology as there is in simple OJT and a degree in Ophthalmic Dispensing.

That'sa horrible explanation they both have degrees, the difference between the opticians OJT and degreed is the degree not the level of the degree. It's pointless to argue about a degree.

**Judy Canty** · 08-03-2012, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by PhiTrace

That'sa horrible explanation they both have degrees, the difference between the opticians OJT and degreed is the degree not the level of the degree. It's pointless to argue about a degree.

That's almost incoherent, so I'll leave you to your analogies and your fun.

**MakeOptics** · 08-03-2012, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by Judy Canty

That's almost incoherent, so I'll leave you to your analogies and your fun.

Typed between spurts at work, I have heard about your reputation and demeanor. You can't bully me off this board with your attitude. Thank you for the poster who showed me the ignore feature, +1 to you.

**Steve Machol** · 08-03-2012, 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by sharpstick777

Steve Machol,
We have a great request from Fezz, we have mostly agreement here. But we really have not heard from you?
Since you own this forum, and you alone control its outcome, and you have made a few comments here...

What do you think of the ideas Fezz has requested? Sentiment is one thing, action another.

Where are you on this?

I've resopnded several times and have made many of similar requests over the years. Of course I want people to act like grown-ups and professionals. Why wouldn't I? I'm surprised there is any question about that.

**Diane** · 08-05-2012, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by Judy Canty

That's almost incoherent, so I'll leave you to your analogies and your fun.

Thank you Judy. You are my friend and always will be.

Diane

**Wes** · 08-24-2012, 01:30 PM

Whatever happened with this concept?

**sharpstick777** · 08-24-2012, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by Steve Machol

I've resopnded several times and have made many of similar requests over the years. Of course I want people to act like grown-ups and professionals. Why wouldn't I? I'm surprised there is any question about that.

Originally Posted by Fezz

I have been thinking and kicking ideas around. One of my main thoughts is:

*A Newbie Mentor Section
This could be a section of dedicated Optiboarders who are willing to help without the BS usually associated with replies in the general forum. My thought is that maybe newbies would feel more comfortable posting in the "No Hassle Zone"

Sorry Steve, I thought I had included Fezz's specific idea. I didn't see that you responded to this...

**bull city optician** · 08-24-2012, 05:05 PM

I am a newbie, could you explain how I could start a post. Iam looking for a trial frame set with missing pieces. I need them for an art project. of course I have no idea how to find your response. my email is buulcityoptician@gmail.com

**Fezz** · 08-24-2012, 05:40 PM

Welcome to Optiboard!

**Steve Machol** · 08-24-2012, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by bull city optician

I am a newbie, could you explain how I could start a post. Iam looking for a trial frame set with missing pieces. I need them for an art project. of course I have no idea how to find your response. my email is buulcityoptician@gmail.com

Go to the appropriate forum and click on 'New Thread'.

**sharpstick777** · 08-27-2012, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by Steve Machol

Go to the appropriate forum and click on 'New Thread'.

Welcome to Optiboard!

The appropriate forum being: General Optics and Eyewear Discussions, its perfect for questions like yours. There is a button on the top left entitled post a new thread, you might mention its your first post, but you don't have to. Welcome.

**FullCircle** · 09-09-2012, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by oopsmyeye

The reasoning behind OB being a cruel place for newbies to be is because of the incompetence of America's (or other) opticians.

So rather than realizing that these folks have sought out OB and using this as a chance to educate them, it's ok to be rude and chase them away? How does this help anyone?

In all honesty, I stopped paying for the better membership then ultimately dropped off this board because of the attitudes here. I came here looking to increase my knowledge base, help my patients and teach my associates. But I found that often where I chose to do this was a HUGE problem for some members. Yes, I work for LC. No, we aren't all idiots. But many here treated me that way based on who wrote my check. I grew weary of standing up for the great Opticians that I worked with, and finally realized that I couldn't win against opticians that felt that their s*** didn't stink because they worked for an independent.

I now lurk, and rarely ever post. And I hate that. I want to be more involved in my career community, I want to keep new opticians from making mistakes like spending 20 years bending the PD stick for frame measurements. But dang, some people make it tough.

**Chris Ryser** · 09-09-2012, 01:31 PM

After 5 years of being a member and 619 post's I don't feel that you are a newbie and don't think you are treated like one.

**Plausible** · 09-09-2012, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by Chris Ryser

After 5 years of being a member and 619 post's I don't feel that you are a newbie and don't think you are treated like one.

Chris, I don't think FullCircle is saying their a newbie or treated like a newbie. FullCircle and anyone else working for LC or E esspecially must certainly feel the hatred for their employers here. To deny the undertow of anti LC or E setiment present onthis site is futile.

**Jubilee** · 09-09-2012, 08:36 PM

FullCircle,

I was once in your shoes. I also ran into issues from corporate for my posts upon occasion that weren't 100% in support of them. That being said..

MANY of the folks on this forum got their start, or in their careers have worked for the corporates. I have argued time and again that WHERE you work does not have a darn thing to do with your ability or skill. For some corporate is better because of the benefits, your own schedule, etc. There are just as many incompetent people in your doctor's office, as there are in the mass retail setting.

My disdain is for the corporation and their vertical integration strategy, and their treatment of many of their people. I have worked with far too many great opticians and minds in corporate to discount them as being "under" me. I would hope, and I believe that the vast majority on this board welcome you as one of the family as well.. just a few vocal people like to paint with a broad brush in an effort to elevate themselves...

**Judy Canty** · 09-09-2012, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by Jubilee

FullCircle,

I was once in your shoes. I also ran into issues from corporate for my posts upon occasion that weren't 100% in support of them. That being said..

MANY of the folks on this forum got their start, or in their careers have worked for the corporates. I have argued time and again that WHERE you work does not have a darn thing to do with your ability or skill. For some corporate is better because of the benefits, your own schedule, etc. There are just as many incompetent people in your doctor's office, as there are in the mass retail setting.

My disdain is for the corporation and their vertical integration strategy, and their treatment of many of their people. I have worked with far too many great opticians and minds in corporate to discount them as being "under" me. I would hope, and I believe that the vast majority on this board welcome you as one of the family as well.. just a few vocal people like to paint with a broad brush in an effort to elevate themselves...

+1

**FullCircle** · 09-10-2012, 03:11 AM

Originally Posted by Chris Ryser

After 5 years of being a member and 619 post's I don't feel that you are a newbie and don't think you are treated like one.

Chris, I actually left for a while due to issues outside of optics, came back, found the climate very much the same then really left. I'd pop back in and lurk every now and again but that's about it.

FullCircle and anyone else working for LC or E esspecially must certainly feel the hatred for their employers here. To deny the undertow of anti LC or E setiment present onthis site is futile.

Oh this is so true! I work where I work because I do like the amount of people I get to interact with, the number of jobs I get to run, the insurance (I love the benefits). This company helped making the move from the midwest to the west coast nearly painless. I don't work there because I'm stupid, or I don't care about ensuring the future of my career field. It's simply another venue to practice my skills.

I know one of the topics that has come up often is the lack of allegiance (for lack of a better word) among ophthalmologists, optometrists and opticians. how do we expect these three groups to come together if we can't do it among ourselves?

I'm willing to give this board another shot. I want to pass along the knowledge in my head and broaden my own learning (I still want my ABOM at the very least. Yeah, that's right, a chain drone that wants her ABOM). I want to be able to tell my associates that are looking to take the ABO about this awesome board where they can learn and ask questions. We just need to stop acting like primadonnas.

I'd be willing to go so far as to say that I'd happily help with newbs if need be. No matter where they worked

**FullCircle** · 09-10-2012, 03:13 AM

Originally Posted by Jubilee

FullCircle,

I was once in your shoes. I also ran into issues from corporate for my posts upon occasion that weren't 100% in support of them. That being said..

MANY of the folks on this forum got their start, or in their careers have worked for the corporates. I have argued time and again that WHERE you work does not have a darn thing to do with your ability or skill. For some corporate is better because of the benefits, your own schedule, etc. There are just as many incompetent people in your doctor's office, as there are in the mass retail setting.

My disdain is for the corporation and their vertical integration strategy, and their treatment of many of their people. I have worked with far too many great opticians and minds in corporate to discount them as being "under" me. I would hope, and I believe that the vast majority on this board welcome you as one of the family as well.. just a few vocal people like to paint with a broad brush in an effort to elevate themselves...

Jubilee, you have always been one of the nice ones and I totally appreciate you and the others that were welcoming and kindhearted

**wearegood** · 09-10-2012, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by Browneyes1208

I am a "newbie" and asked my first question not long ago. I was met with very mean-spirited replies by one person in general. Most of the people were very kind. I was VERY discouraged! I received many private notifications of apologies by the nice people on here, but I also received some that said they were met with the same kind of replies as a
"newbie". Some things some people do every day may not be something that someone else is familiar with. I don't think newbies want to be held by the hand, but to make them feel like they are not asking a stupid question would be nice. I like that idea.

Me too. Some problem occurred when I asked the first question. So Here I suggestion people here could treat people with simple and obvious questions kindly. To most newbies, optiboard is out of reach.

To Fezz, maybe we can set up a list of FAQ on the forum page, attach videos in possible. We aim at a community of discussion and help instead of top scientists group, are we?

**Fezz** · 09-10-2012, 07:07 AM

Full Circle,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences on this!

Your experience on here mirrors many. It is part of the reason why I started this thread.

I realize that we have failed as a community and we have done a lot of damage! I took a hard look at myself and realized that I was part of the problem! I have made a concentrated effort to change and become part of the solution! We have some good folk here in this thread who are willing to join me in stepping up!

I encourage newbies to come out of lurk mode and participate, ask questions, ask for help, and become part of this community. If you are afraid to......I understand! This can be a rough place! If you do not want to participate in the open forum, feel free to contact me, or any other helpful member that offered to help make a difference in this thread, by Private Message and we will surely help you in any way we possibly can!