Photo-chromatic Problems

[SithRico]

I'm in AZ. I have customers coming back in all the time complaining about the Transitions don't work on their glasses. I put them under the Transition demo light to activate them and give them back and show them they change colors. Then it starts, they get mad that they don't get dark enough. I explain that it is the right environment in the desert and give a card I have made from the Transition website with all the "important facts" I guess you can call them, about temp and uv waves etc. I just need help trying to figure out how to explain that not every pair is the same. Some can change darker and not get lighter and others lighter than darker without get the customer upset and refunding their purchase. It frustrates me because before we sell them we explain the disadvantages and you still need sunglasses, not working in the car. Then they just wrap things around and make it my fault I don't back up what I sell. I can't guarantee if the weather is going to be just right to make them as dark as TV or other pairs they have. I just don't know the best way of handling it.

Thanks for any suggestions/help.

[chip anderson]

Tell them up front that they don't get near as dark as the commercials and don't lighten and darken near as fast.
What they are is a poor sunglass subsitutue for the person that can't keep up with two pairs of glasses or won't spring for the cost of two pair.

What do you want Anthony a clear concience in the optical business?

Chip

[uncut]

Welcome to Optiboard, Anthony!

Transition lenses reduce in reaction, and reaction speed, to UV, in hot climatic conditions,........ add a wide brimmed hat to the mix, and you get 1/2 the capabilities.

Transition lenses are NOT sunglasses, I call them comfort lenses, but they should never, never, never be held out as a sun-glass substitute.

Be aware which Transitions you are using/ending up with! Each one has different characteristics, and quirks.

[Crazy-bout-Optics]

Welcome to "La La" land! ;)

As you know it is hot and dry out. I tell them wait for monsoon season and our "colder" months. Generally Oct-Feb and their lenses will get darker. We just do not live in the ideal environment for transition lenses.

It can be frustrating ESP when they tell you about all their friends in Sun City whose lenses get black.

My biggest tip is do not sell trans poly. If I can I use cr39, trivex and 1.60. Poly is the lens that in transition gives me the most trouble.

Also, and I do not know if this actually helps or not, but I put them in our freezer then our uv lamp after I check them in. I also tell pts they need a week or so to "break in" just like a new pair of shoes. I remind them these are brand new lenses and they cannot compare them to their 2-3 year old lenses.

Good luck!

Pm me if you would like. Love to chat with those in our state and network.

[trifoil]

I would suggest... toss in a free pair of sunlens clip-ons. the customers will have nothing to complain about.

[manoj_verma]

Welcome to Optiboard, Anthony!

Transition lenses reduce in reaction, and reaction speed, to UV, in hot climatic conditions,........ add a wide brimmed hat to the mix, and you get 1/2 the capabilities.

Transition lenses are NOT sunglasses, I call them comfort lenses, but they should never, never, never be held out as a sun-glass substitute.

Be aware which Transitions you are using/ending up with! Each one has different characteristics, and quirks.

''The Best Solution ''

[Chris Ryser]

Welcome to Optiboard, Anthony!

Transition lenses are NOT sunglasses, I call them comfort lenses, but they should never, never, never be held out as a sun-glass substitute.

What a refreshing thread ........................................

For once the more expensive version of a sale, is not hailed as the "glory of optical solutions". Just because it can be sold for more, it does have to be better for the user, only for the seller. Same category as progressive lenses which make more money for optically distorted lenses and heavily reduced clear areas, than optically perfect bifocals with a visible line.

When some optical laboratories go through 100 of 1 liter bottles of dye concentrate in 9 colors per month year in and year out, there must still be a huge market for regular tinted lenses and plenty of money to be made. Somebody somewhere is buying them rx sunglasses, but obviously not from Optiboarders who mostly post on selling only polarized lenses for the highest prices possible.

[EyeManFla]

I sell Transitions all day. I wear Transitions. I market Transitions...as EVERYDAY wear lenses. I NEVER sell Transitions as SUNGLASSES. I tell patients right up front that Transitions will NEVER replace a good pair of polarized sunglasses! Also, I don't care what Transitions says.....temperature DOES affect darkness..the hotter it gets, the worse they work.
Having said that, however, I still sell alot of Transition and my patients and customers knowwhat to expect when they walk out the door.

[chip anderson]

If transitions are not sunglasses or sunglass substitutes, just what are they for?

[Chris Ryser]

If transitions are not sunglasses or sunglass substitutes, just what are they for?

The same as photogrey glass lenses were in the 1970's, 30 years ago.................a novelty and more expensive, therfore an interesting item for the ones that can afford it.

[chip anderson]

Photogray made a pretty good sunglass!

[Crazy-bout-Optics]

Chris:

I love my non polarized sunglasses! I sell and wear tinted CR39/Trivex. Just got in two pair with mirror coating from NACL and love them just as much as my RX Maui Jim's.

[J.P.]

I guess at times we get into a habit of trying to market transitions as "Would you like your glasses to turn dark outside like sunglasses" and then all the patient hears is "Turns Into Sunglasses When You're Outside, Even DARKER The The Sunglasses You own"

I don't know how their selective hearing turns one into the other, but that's what happens.

As everyone has said, you have to tell them, Transitions is NOT sunglasses and not a replacement for Sunglasses. It is an extra to add onto your dress glasses to help with UV A and UV B and help with unwanted glare when your sunglasses are not handy or absolutely needed at the moment.

[Java99]

I call it a comfort lens. Makes it easier when getting out of your car, walking into the store across the blinding parking lot. We have a shop rule "No transitions for cowboys." We sell a fair amount of it and don't have many complaints, because we over-warn about windshields, hot days, hats, windshields, hot days, hats, and windshields, hot days and hats.

[Robert_S]

The problem is that no matter how many times we tell customers (and we do!), 90% of patients still get transtions thinking they are a replacement for sunglasses.

[uncut]

Some of the blame lies in the subliminal, or not-so-subliminal message in the advertising presented by the manufacturer. I know of one major company that advertises cream cheese, with derrogative(sp?), demeaning sexist ads, for example.

[optilady1]

We sell a fairly high percentage of transitions, I think because we are an MD practice and the older patients like them. We've just started with the vantage as well, and we've done quite a few so far.

When I offer them to patients I always always tell them they will not change color when they drive in the car, so the first thing I ask is if that is why they want them. I would say that changes the mind of at least half of the patients who are interested in them but have never had in the past. I have recently started adding the hat thing as well.

I also try not to call it a comfort lens, even though that is what it is, because everyone's perception of comfort is different. I call it a convenience lens because it will allow them to go in and out without switching glasses.

I throw in the fact that about 70% of the color with go away within the first 5 minutes of coming inside, but that the rest will take about 15 minutes to go to the lightest it will ever be. I know it all sounds very negative, but I'd rather them be pleasantly surprised when they find out that they live up to correct expectations.

As far as how to present the different types of transitions, I keep it super simple. I say you have 3 choices: #1, stays the clearest inside, and turns pretty dark outside. #2, gets the darkest outside, remains slightly tinted in the car, but has a minor tint while inside. #3, has a slight tint indoors, and will turn to a polarized lens while outdoors.

[mdeimler]

I can see why do do so well with them. Your ideas on under-estimating the performance is great.
That allows you to over-deliver to the patients who really appreciate the lenses for what they are. Bravo.

[Java99]

We sell a fairly high percentage of transitions, I think because we are an MD practice and the older patients like them. We've just started with the vantage as well, and we've done quite a few so far.

When I offer them to patients I always always tell them they will not change color when they drive in the car, so the first thing I ask is if that is why they want them. I would say that changes the mind of at least half of the patients who are interested in them but have never had in the past. I have recently started adding the hat thing as well.

I also try not to call it a comfort lens, even though that is what it is, because everyone's perception of comfort is different. I call it a convenience lens because it will allow them to go in and out without switching glasses.

I throw in the fact that about 70% of the color with go away within the first 5 minutes of coming inside, but that the rest will take about 15 minutes to go to the lightest it will ever be. I know it all sounds very negative, but I'd rather them be pleasantly surprised when they find out that they live up to correct expectations.

As far as how to present the different types of transitions, I keep it super simple. I say you have 3 choices: #1, stays the clearest inside, and turns pretty dark outside. #2, gets the darkest outside, remains slightly tinted in the car, but has a minor tint while inside. #3, has a slight tint indoors, and will turn to a polarized lens while outdoors.

That's exactly how to do it!

[NCspecs]

As far as how to present the different types of transitions, I keep it super simple. I say you have 3 choices: #1, stays the clearest inside, and turns pretty dark outside. #2, gets the darkest outside, remains slightly tinted in the car, but has a minor tint while inside. #3, has a slight tint indoors, and will turn to a polarized lens while outdoors.

Love this-stealing it! :)

[Robert Martellaro]

I call it a convenience lens because it will allow them to go in and out without switching glasses.

That's the only good thing about photochromics- convenience.

What I don't understand is why anyone would choose to wear a lens that turns dark on overcast days, and clear when driving into the sun.

[optilady1]

That's the only good thing about photochromics- convenience.

What I don't understand is why anyone would choose to wear a lens that turns dark on overcast days, and clear when driving into the sun.

I completely agree, which is why I give so many disclaimers to the patients who've never had them. I personally don't care for them, although I do want to try out the vantage for when I'm camping. I spend a lot of time outside but sometimes don't want to have to grab my sunglasses out of sheer laziness.

[uncut]

That's the only good thing about photochromics- convenience.

What I don't understand is why anyone would choose to wear a lens that turns dark on overcast days, and clear when driving into the sun.

It is truly because of the magic...............

[Robert_S]

I don't like them either, but I have thousands of patients who wouldn't go without them.

The hard bit is convincing them they also need sunglasses (bearing in mind we don't get much sun in the UK). However I have managed to get quite a lot of transitions wearers to have an extra Drivewear pair.

[MakeOptics]

Transition lenses reduce in reaction, and reaction speed, to UV, in hot climatic conditions,........ add a wide brimmed hat to the mix, and you get 1/2 the capabilities.

That is a common misconception, the photochromatic dyes actually activate at a faster rate when exposed to heat. In colder climates you get a build up of molecules in their activated state which is why they get darker because the molecules stay in an activated state and don't fade back as quick. This also means in the winter they take longer to clear up indoors. In the summer when the lenses are exposed to heat the molecules activate and deactivate at a much faster rate so the underlying layers of molecules fade back when the upper most layers are in their darkest state.

Basically heat means a thinner layer of the chemicals stay activated, cold means that a thicker layer of the chemicals stay activated.

As far as how to present the different types of transitions, I keep it super simple. I say you have 3 choices: #1, stays the clearest inside, and turns pretty dark outside. #2, gets the darkest outside, remains slightly tinted in the car, but has a minor tint while inside. #3, has a slight tint indoors, and will turn to a polarized lens while outdoors.

That is the way I sell them myself.

1. Trasitions VI - clearest indoors and fastest fade back times, the gold standard.
2. Xtractive - For the photosensitive, slight tint indoors takes the edge off of bright lighting, medium density tint in the car to provide adequate protection against the sun while still allowing ample light for driving, and the darkest outdoors with near sunglass density tint.
3. Vantage - Slight tint indoors to take the edge off of bright lighting while providing the sharpest contrast outdoors by not only reducing the intensity of light but also reducing glare.

For once the more expensive version of a sale, is not hailed as the "glory of optical solutions". Just because it can be sold for more, it does have to be better for the user, only for the seller. Same category as progressive lenses which make more money for optically distorted lenses and heavily reduced clear areas, than optically perfect bifocals with a visible line.

When some optical laboratories go through 100 of 1 liter bottles of dye concentrate in 9 colors per month year in and year out, there must still be a huge market for regular tinted lenses and plenty of money to be made. Somebody somewhere is buying them rx sunglasses, but obviously not from Optiboarders who mostly post on selling only polarized lenses for the highest prices possible.

I do hail them as a glory of optical solutions, it's the swiss army knife of sun protection. The same goes for PAL's they are the swiss army knife of multifocals. If the patient needs a chef knife for their particular scenario that's fine but every boy scout packs a swiss army knife and for good reason. As an aside for PALs when a client is placed into FT's instead of PALs they are initially happy with the vision but that patient is a ticking time bomb with 5 years max before they will need an intermediate correction. At that point the only option is going to be a trifocal or multiple pairs, they will often non-adapt or require more expensive PALs to adequately adapt so any savings are quickly eaten up by the more costly lenses in the future. Plus after a +2.00 add power the patient will be left with a negative perception about the technology that they might have otherwise been perfectly happy with. A PAL is a long term visual solution, a FT is a quick band-aid. My preference to wards FT's and segmented multifocals is for task specific pairs since I have more control over the optical zones, or I should say consistency in power in those optical zones.

IMO, tints are the dullest knife in the kitchen drawer. I dread tints, polarized lenses are consistent in color so I know I can match a lens simply, a tint requires too much labor for very little benefit. Most offices don't have the necessary time or effort to maintain a tint tank properly so tints wear out or are plagued with inconsistencies from batch to batch. The fumes are noxious and in some units actually hazardous to lab personnels health. I would be all for imbibed tints where the manufacturer controlled the consistency of the tint and created pre tinted blanks, that would be a tint I could sell and get behind but the in office dye jobs are a chore.