Photo-chromatic Problems

[Chris Ryser]

1) IMO,tints are the dullest knife in the kitchen drawer.

2) I dread tints, polarized lenses areconsistent in color so I know I can match a lens simply, a tint requires toomuch labor for very little benefit.

3) Most offices don't havethe necessary time or effort to maintain a tint tank properly so tints wear out or are plagued with inconsistencies from batch to batch.

4) The fumes are noxious andin some units actually hazardous to lab personnel's health.

5) I would be all for imbibed tints where the manufacturer controlled theconsistency of the tint andcreated pre tinted blanks, that would be a tint I could sell and get behind but the in officedye jobs are a chore.

1) As a dye manufacturer that holds several patents in the dye business I have to respond to a strong statement that is so full of totally wrong points, because the author has not followed technical advances in that side of the business overthe last 12 to 15 years:

2) You can only dread dyes, if you are not basically informed how they are made andwork. They are all made from the basic 3 colors, red / blue / yellow, in exactly the proper ratio.
If you are purchasing dyes made from somebody in his garage in his spare time and sells them dirt cheap, you might have the only valid point there is.

These days, dyes are manufactured and quality controlled with all the newer technologies available. Every batch is controlled with a photo spectrometer, that has a cost of nearly $ 20,000. That guarantees consistency.

3) There is no time needed to maintain a tint tank in an office. It only needs knowledge of the few basic rules:

Dyes decompose after acertain amount of hours under heat. Some major brands, made from low energy dispersed pigments, as for the last 40 years, will decompose after 57 hours, while newer ones developed in the last 15 years are usable up 112 hours, as comparison tests have shown.
If there is still no time to tint with a tank,you can still tint in the microwave with the MicroTint system which lets youtint CR39 in 60 seconds and poly and high index lenses at 4-8 minutes to dark shades.

Dyes in certain colors like black and brown shiftcolor when one of the color pigments gets exhausted by usage. Every time youtint you remove an equal amount of pigments and if an adjusting color is in the ratio of 1:10, the adjusting color will be exhausted sooner. At that stage one has to replace the batch or add some of that color.

4) Dye sare made from color pigments, dispersed in water, combined with surfactants to stabilize the solution. There are absolutely no noxious fumes from dyes, and above statement is totally wrong.

Toxic fumes are emitted by the common neutralizers sold and bought in the industry. These neutralizers are made with ethylene-glycol with emits no fumes in a cold state, but will produce very toxic fumes when heated and will have to be vented outside. This type neutralizer will also damage Poly and high index lenses.

There is also a new solution available, a water and surfactant based neutralizer which emits no fumes, only evaporated water,that can be replaced. This type will not damage Poly and high index lenses andcan be used for all lens materials.

5) For all I can say is, that anybody that knows and masters the fast and proper way to do any type of job never says that it is a chore. That is only for the ones that have problems doing it.

[MakeOptics]

1) As a dye manufacturer that holds several patents in the dye business I have to respond to a strong statement that is so full of totally wrong points, because the author has not followed technical advances in that side of the business overthe last 12 to 15 years:

I'm listening.

2) You can only dread dyes, if you are not basically informed how they are made andwork. They are all made from the basic 3 colors, red / blue / yellow, in exactly the proper ratio.
If you are purchasing dyes made from somebody in his garage in his spare time and sells them dirt cheap, you might have the only valid point there is.

These days, dyes are manufactured and quality controlled with all the newer technologies available. Every batch is controlled with a photo spectrometer, that has a cost of nearly $ 20,000. That guarantees consistency.

First, it's a free country I can dread whatever I want whenever I want. The dye is consistent but if lat night a little old lady in town flushed a whole bottle of pills down the toilet and the mechanic shop up the road dumped chemicals down the drain the water I will be using won't be consistent. Sure I can go and get deionized water or as a second course of action I could get filtered water from a grocery store but again I find that to be a chore.

3) There is no time needed to maintain a tint tank in an office. It only needs knowledge of the few basic rules:

Dyes decompose after acertain amount of hours under heat. Some major brands, made from low energy dispersed pigments, as for the last 40 years, will decompose after 57 hours, while newer ones developed in the last 15 years are usable up 112 hours, as comparison tests have shown.
If there is still no time to tint with a tank,you can still tint in the microwave with the MicroTint system which lets youtint CR39 in 60 seconds and poly and high index lenses at 4-8 minutes to dark shades.

Changing dyes all the time is a chore and often times I need to dye one lens, but I fireup the entire machine so while I utilize one color the others are wearing out as well.

Dyes in certain colors like black and brown shiftcolor when one of the color pigments gets exhausted by usage. Every time youtint you remove an equal amount of pigments and if an adjusting color is in the ratio of 1:10, the adjusting color will be exhausted sooner. At that stage one has to replace the batch or add some of that color.

The inconsistencies I mentioned, you can call them color shifts, adjustment colors, or magic fairy dusts the result is the same inconsistencies in color.

4) Dye sare made from color pigments, dispersed in water, combined with surfactants to stabilize the solution. There are absolutely no noxious fumes from dyes, and above statement is totally wrong.

Ok, maybe the word noxious is not the correct defintion. What's the word for makes the office smell like burnt rubber shoes?

Toxic fumes are emitted by the common neutralizers sold and bought in the industry. These neutralizers are made with ethylene-glycol with emits no fumes in a cold state, but will produce very toxic fumes when heated and will have to be vented outside. This type neutralizer will also damage Poly and high index lenses.

There is also a new solution available, a water and surfactant based neutralizer which emits no fumes, only evaporated water,that can be replaced. This type will not damage Poly and high index lenses andcan be used for all lens materials.

Yes certain neutralizers and HTF fluids are more problematic then others yet they still exist and are sold by major manufacturers. This means the waters are murky and one has to navigate with care and caution when selecting the proper materials.

5) For all I can say is, that anybody that knows and masters the fast and proper way to do any type of job never says that it is a chore. That is only for the ones that have problems doing it.

I'm no tinting master so it's a chore. Secondly I have to make sre the lab is sending me the same manufacturers lenses when tinting otherwise I am spendign mroe time correcting tints that could be better utilized with patients. Most tints are also incompatible with AR coatings, mirror coatings and other premium offerings. The microwave tint system you plugged could potentially damage factory hard coats and how do you gradient tint with a microwave? We didn't even touch gradient tints, even with the proper equipment gradient tints still need to be babied by hand to come out properly and f you need to replace one lens for any reason forget it any profit you made from the tint is exhausted by the amount of labor spent on the job.

Sell them a polarized lens and watch them leave happy with the results. Are you an optician or a tint manufacturer? I am curious because I was under the impression that the Canadians had protections for the title optician?

[Judy Canty]

Chris is both an optician and a manufacturer.

[King of the Lab]

Welcome to Optiboard, Anthony!

Transition lenses reduce in reaction, and reaction speed, to UV, in hot climatic conditions,........ add a wide brimmed hat to the mix, and you get 1/2 the capabilities.

Transition lenses are NOT sunglasses, I call them comfort lenses, but they should never, never, never be held out as a sun-glass substitute.

Be aware which Transitions you are using/ending up with! Each one has different characteristics, and quirks.

Win! Couldnt explain it better myself.

[Chris Ryser]

Chris is both an optician and a manufacturer.

Thanks Judy, I needed that mental lift.

Getting hot tending to my garden hobby, many types of lillies, about 20 of them, with over a 1000 flowers part of them blooming allready I went inside to cool off and clicked the mouse and here was the response to my last post this morning.

Yes I am born in a Swiss opticians family (http://www.ryseroptik.ch/), became an optician with 8 years of learning, from apprentiship to optical school in London. Father wanted me to get more expierience overseas and I chose Canada at the time and got stuck there, working in the optical wholesale and manufacturing.

Now that I am cooled off, I go back out into the heat 34C-93.4F and make a system to tie up my 120, 6 foot tall lillies with 6 buds each that are starting to bloom in day or two from loosing their balance in a thunderstorm.

[Judy Canty]

Fortunately, my sewing hobby keeps me inside!

[Chris Ryser]

I'm listening.

First, it's a free country I can dread whatever I want whenever I want. The dye is consistent but if lat night a little old lady in town flushed a whole bottle of pills down the toilet and the mechanic shop up the road dumped chemicals down the drain the water I will be using won't be consistent. Sure I can go and get deionized water or as a second course of action I could get filtered water from a grocery store but again I find that to be a chore.

I just want to make sure never to stop over in your water supply area on my way south. I like to drink purified water in my scotch, and not a mix of all the stuff flushed down the toilets the previous night. Maybe you can use the drinking water as a weed killer.

Our way the drinking water has an absolute stable Ph and is better than bottled water.

[uncut]

Chris is both an optician and a manufacturer.

Yeah,..................and I'm waiting for him to perfect that photochromic, any- color- you -want , with AR in a bottle.

[Java99]

FWIW, picking up distilled water at the store isn't much more of a chore than picking up the rest of the shop supplies.

I tint in office and do the gradients myself. I'm the only place in town that will and therefore it's a moneymaker for me. While I think polarized is better for dark colors in full sun, a lot of people prefer tint over polarized, and my job is to provide what people want.

[Crazy-bout-Optics]

FWIW, picking up distilled water at the store isn't much more of a chore than picking up the rest of the shop supplies.

I tint in office and do the gradients myself. I'm the only place in town that will and therefore it's a moneymaker for me. While I think polarized is better for dark colors in full sun, a lot of people prefer tint over polarized, and my job is to provide what people want.

Completely agree! ;)

Ive been tinting over polarized and transition lenses for years. Even going back to my LC days when the lab techs told me it couldn't be done. They thought i was nuts when i would grab the lenses and tint them myself. I am not a lab person by any stretch but tinting is one of my favorite things to do. Its part art part science. Good for you for giving your patients what they want. If you don't they will go elsewhere.

[SithRico]

Thanks for all the great ways to explain this to the customers. I'm going to give this info to my sales associates. I think all of this will work for getting a better outcome from this.

[Chris Ryser]

Yeah,..................and I'm waiting for him to perfect that photochromic, any- color- you -want , with AR in a bottle.

Too late..................................http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/phot...s-coating.html

[chip anderson]

A little hint about "distilled" water. Now we talking about the grocery stuff not the medical stuff. Back in the day when patients mixed thier own saline with drug store distilled water, Joe Soper went to the grocery store and bought a bunch of the stuff. Then he had Baylor Medical in Houston test the stuff. Three out of five gallon jugs were found to have A.cantomeba. After this mix your own disappeared as a method.
I have also observed that on almost any bottle product contact lens, and any bottle of saline (including the medical stuff) that if you open it and just re-seal it, even without removing anything but the cap, not putting anything in or back in the bottle, within three days you can find black spots of fungus and such visible to the naked eye in the bottom of the container.
Drinking "distilled" water might not be the smartest thing one can do.

Chip