Is it worth it to have your own in-house lab?

[eyepeople]

Hello,

We are interested in possibly expanding to have our own in-house lab. We recently went on a tour to see our current lab and what might be required to do so. We pretty much knew the basics but what we didn't know is the extent of what goes into AR Coating. When we went to the lab they had at least a 5 million dollar room specifically for doing just AR Coating, probably more...

My question is how could anyone with their own lab be able to do AR that would even come close to what their machines do? Obviously we are not going to be spending any kind of money like that into a lab so how do people do this? We all know AR Coating makes the world of difference to produce quality lenses. I just feel after doing that tour that any other methods of doing AR would be far more inferior. Maybe I am wrong and just too blown away to see anything else...

Thank you in advance for any info.

[Robert_S]

We are an independent opticians, and have separate glazing and surfacing labs.

With the surfacing, we don't really make any money on lenses we finish versus finished lenses bought in... but it is handy in certain situations; if someone needs glasses urgently for example, or for high blank or base curve jobs. If you wanted, you could use Genesis/Piccolo or Precise/Concise for the majority of your progressive dispenses, and make big margins whilst giving the customer a quality product.

Having a glazing lab is far better in terms of financial rewards and practicality; we carry stock ranges of 1.5, 1.6 and sunsensors and can make any of them within 20 mins... which is a fantastic service. Plus good glazing can be the difference between a poor job and a fantstic job.

I can't possibly think there is value in having a coating lab unless you intend to supply other opticians.

[Java99]

Eyepeople,

Some places with in house surface labs send lenses out to be coated only.

[Jacqui]

It is possible to setup a sputter type AR lab for about $500.000 to $750,000. It still doesn't make sense for you.

[normuck]

I dont think you have to AR coat in an inhouse lab to make a pofit, but you do need to have alot of private pay jobs and a few eyemeds versus a bunch of vsp work. We have a lab and I only get to edge about 35 jobs a week ;( not enough to keep me busy or make a big profit. But I believe I can produce a better quality final product, and so does the doc, than what I get from the labs. In short figure out how much edging in house you are going to be performing before you buy!

[GokhanSF]

I know labs who produce over 200 jobs a day and don't have a AR coating facility as it is a big headache... Other than the cost of AR equipment which you can obtain a good one for under 750K, you also have to consider the disposal of waste. Depending on your states regulations disposal of waste can be very costly and you will have to deal with inspectors constantly. If your volume is over 50 Rx jobs per day I suggest you get Schneider digital surfacing equipment, Labzilla LMS, Santinelli ME1200 edger, and obtain your digital design from IOT to save on cost.

[Jacqui]

Your original question was "Is it worth it to have your own in-house lab?" The answer in my opinion is NO!! But this is only my opinion.

[eyepeople]

I appreciate everyone's input and thank you for the info. I was really thinking the same as all of you, that it is really not worth it unless we are cooking out jobs or had several dispensaries using us as well. It would just take too much time to make up that investment. Our lab takes about a week and we have found most people are comfortable with the wait...

@Java99 "Some places with in house surface labs send lenses out to be coated only." I guess I really don't understand why you would send out just for AR which defeats the purpose of the benefit of having a lab "turn around time." If you are still relying on a 3rd party's turn around time... Not to insult or take away from your methods... Just for debate purposes :-)

On a side note: Do any of you let people out of your store without AR Coating? I haven't had anybody tell me they don't want AR yet and unless they were adamant about not having AR and were just to cheap to buy it we would still probably just give them a inexpensive AR for no charge or just build it into the price... We just think it is a must!

Again as we all know good AR makes the lenses, we just wouldn't want a come-back or unhappy person because lack of....

[Java99]

Your original question was "Is it worth it to have your own in-house lab?" The answer in my opinion is NO!! But this is only my opinion.

I agree about a surface lab, coatings, all that messs, but for me, having a finish lab is very worth it.

[MikeAurelius]

IMO AR coatings should be a customer/patient decision, not the opticians.

That said, it really isn't cost-effective to set up your own in-house surfacing lab. You will need to hire qualified staff, you will need to continually buy supplies, and you will need the extra space. With all the labs out there in the real world, I don't see a good reason to set up your own. Same with doing your own edging. Equipment, staffing/training, supplies, space. You won't get freebies on jobs you mess up in edging. Let the labs do it.

[Java99]

I appreciate everyone's input and thank you for the info. I was really thinking the same as all of you, that it is really not worth it unless we are cooking out jobs or had several dispensaries using us as well. It would just take too much time to make up that investment. Our lab takes about a week and we have found most people are comfortable with the wait...

@Java99 "Some places with in house surface labs send lenses out to be coated only." I guess I really don't understand why you would send out just for AR which defeats the purpose of the benefit of having a lab "turn around time." If you are still relying on a 3rd party's turn around time... Not to insult or take away from your methods... Just for debate purposes :-)

On a side note: Do any of you let people out of your store without AR Coating? I haven't had anybody tell me they don't want AR yet and unless they were adamant about not having AR and were just to cheap to buy it we would still probably just give them a inexpensive AR for no charge or just build it into the price... We just think it is a must!

Again as we all know good AR makes the lenses, we just wouldn't want a come-back or unhappy person because lack of....

The places that surface themselves and send out for coating are, imo, most concerned with keeping costs down. I don't do this, I don't surface.

I would rather do no AR than a cheap, scratchable, smudgeable AR. We do about 80% AR here, but only the good stuff.

[eyepeople]

Thank you again everyone, I just mainly wanted to make sure I wasnt just in awe... I was like a kid in a candy store at the lab!

and...

You won't get freebies on jobs you mess up in edging. Let the labs do it.

Great point!

[Robert_S]

@Java99 "Some places with in house surface labs send lenses out to be coated only." I guess I really don't understand why you would send out just for AR which defeats the purpose of the benefit of having a lab "turn around time." If you are still relying on a 3rd party's turn around time... Not to insult or take away from your methods... Just for debate purposes :-)

1-2 days for surfacing, 1 day in the post to coating lab, 1 day for coating, Same day, or next day, return by post = 3-5 day turnaround... which is not bad really. And our Kodak lenses are coated by Signet themselves.

On a side note: Do any of you let people out of your store without AR Coating? I haven't had anybody tell me they don't want AR yet and unless they were adamant about not having AR and were just to cheap to buy it we would still probably just give them a inexpensive AR for no charge or just build it into the price... We just think it is a must!

Again as we all know good AR makes the lenses, we just wouldn't want a come-back or unhappy person because lack of....

It doesn't make sense for someone not to have an AR coat, since without it you're giving with one hand and taking away with the other; you may be making things clearer but then you're putting about a 10% light filter in front of their eyes. Almost none of my patients leave without AR. There are some circumstances where no AR is better, but they are very rare.

[Robert_S]

IMO AR coatings should be a customer/patient decision, not the opticians.

That said, it really isn't cost-effective to set up your own in-house surfacing lab. You will need to hire qualified staff, you will need to continually buy supplies, and you will need the extra space. With all the labs out there in the real world, I don't see a good reason to set up your own. Same with doing your own edging. Equipment, staffing/training, supplies, space. You won't get freebies on jobs you mess up in edging. Let the labs do it.

I genuinely believe in my work when I glaze... I don't trust my best jobs with any one else... and the lab saves us money, it doesn't cost. Breakages are rare, about 2%. I don't see the downside. Plus we're able to do customised rimless (any shape/size in any frame), extend the depth on supras, base curve glazing (this makes a huge difference on high minus lenses) extra polishing etc etc

Lastly, making glasses whilst people wait is an excellent service to be able to offer. It also allows someone not to be without their glasses if reglazing.

[Java99]

I genuinely believe in my work when I glaze... I don't trust my best jobs with any one else... and the lab saves us money, it doesn't cost. Breakages are rare, about 2%. I don't see the downside. Plus we're able to do customised rimless (any shape/size in any frame), extend the depth on supras, base curve glazing (this makes a huge difference on high minus lenses) extra polishing etc etc.

What he said.

[Jacqui]

The big problems that I see with in-house labs comes from not having qualified (education and experience) technicians. Untrained help will have a higher breakage rate, higher maintenance cost (no or wrong preventive maintenance) and lower quality Rx from not understanding things. I've seen a lot of in-house labs that made junk and lots of it, I've also seen some that did beautiful work. Just depends on the competence of the techs.

Many OD's and OMD's seem to be too cheap to hire good help and suffer for it.

[RT]

There are some problems with running in an in-house lab. One is the phenomenon that "I sell what I can make" instead of "I sell what I should sell". Your in-house lab will necessarily have a smaller lens offering that a full-service wholesale lab, and you'll end up eliminating some lens options based solely on what you can make. For some patients/customers, that would be a disservice. And unless you're willing to invest in the latest, you may end up with a technology gap in your offerings.

With regard to surfacing in-house, and sending it out for AR coating: you will almost certainly end up delivering an inferior product slower. The most durable AR coats start with naked lenses, and put a thermally cured hard coat on both sides of the lens that is engineered to work with the AR stack. With an in-house lab, you don't get that end-to-end engineered product, and you've got at least two days worth of transportation time.

[nicksims]

Finishing lab- go for it. So many positives. The initial expense of equipment, sure. But you'll definitely come out ahead both financially and for patient satisfaction. Whether or not you stock your own lenses is an important consideration, but definitely not essential. I have a great edger, no lenses in stock but get them next day (I can't even recall any patient demanding same day service, but there are times when I would like to provide this.) But the control you will have is great. You'll know that the final product is always exactly as you want. We have good relationships with our surface labs so that is a plus, but if you can control the finishing phase, you are golden. I've run surface labs in my past and can empathize your desire for full control of every phase, but I agree with many of the previous comments re: costs, disposal, regulations, but also inventory to have all the different types of lenses, coatings, etc. Wow. In my environment now, independent doc office, we're pretty busy. But the convenience of being able to order ANY kind of lens, and then control the finishing is the best way we keep our patients happy- cost effective, no restrictions on what type of lenses, high quality AR, mirrors, materials, etc. Then we control everything else after receiving the uncuts. Good luck!

[Johns]

I never made a substantial profit in this business until I put in a finishing lab. The lab allowed my business to expand in ways I never would have dreamed!

We don't surface in-house, and we edge about 85% of our jobs ourselves. Our AR is at about 40% of our jobs.

[Chris Ryser]

I never made a substantial profit in this business until I put in a finishing lab. The lab allowed my business to expand in ways I never would have dreamed!

We don't surface in-house, and we edge about 85% of our jobs ourselves. Our AR is at about 40% of our jobs.

As often Johns has the most down to earth advice on doing whats best for the business. A retail optician should do just about all the finishing only in house.

You can provide good and fast service for the easy to jobs without having to worry about surfacing in the way of machinery and qualified labour. You can even start with good used equipment which is easily available at good prices these days. Send the lenses out for AR coatings, at 40% of the total, (about national average) it is not worth it making a huge investment.

Purchase untreated uncut stock lenses and check the market for doing surface treatments like tinting, UV and scratch resistant done in house, as well as many repairs. That is where you can make the $$.$$ income with your own hands in a few minutes without paying a lab to do the same and add an extra profit on top of it.

That is actually the way it is done worldwide instead of buying a finished product, and hand it to the consumer with an extra profit added. Start listening to and parctising according to Johns business advice a bit more often.

[Java99]

The big problems that I see with in-house labs comes from not having qualified (education and experience) technicians. Untrained help will have a higher breakage rate, higher maintenance cost (no or wrong preventive maintenance) and lower quality Rx from not understanding things. I've seen a lot of in-house labs that made junk and lots of it, I've also seen some that did beautiful work. Just depends on the competence of the techs.

Many OD's and OMD's seem to be too cheap to hire good help and suffer for it.

I agree with this completely. I've heard the phrase "a monkey can edge" in lots of doctors offices. And the jobs coming out of those offices look just like that, too, because we all know a monkey can't do it well and there is a lot of skill and judgement involved.

[Johns]

I agree with this completely. I've heard the phrase "a monkey can edge" in lots of doctors offices. And the jobs coming out of those offices look just like that, too, because we all know a monkey can't do it well and there is a lot of skill and judgement involved.

When Essilor "partnered" with the lab down the street, I had to opportunity to hire the lab mgr. I already had his apprentice working for me. Neither one of them came cheap, and I wouldn't have expected they would. They are both handsomely compensated, and worth every penny.

Lab work is not easy, but it's not brain surgery. It's not a science, it's an art. Custom jobs, hand edging, chemistrie clips? We do it all, and love the challenge.

It's not for everybody, but that's the exact reason we do it...we don't want to be "everybody"!

[sharpstick777]

Edging only makes sense financially if you are doing 12-15 or more non-vsp jobs per day.

Surfacing only makes sense if your doing 40-50 or more jobs a day, digital is about 75 jobs a day.

AR only makes sense if you are doing over 75 jobs a day on average, assuming a small low cost machine.

If you don't have experience in any of these areas, add 25 jobs per day to the above. These are real numbers we worked up for a consult.

Hello,

We are interested in possibly expanding to have our own in-house lab. We recently went on a tour to see our current lab and what might be required to do so. We pretty much knew the basics but what we didn't know is the extent of what goes into AR Coating. When we went to the lab they had at least a 5 million dollar room specifically for doing just AR Coating, probably more...

My question is how could anyone with their own lab be able to do AR that would even come close to what their machines do? Obviously we are not going to be spending any kind of money like that into a lab so how do people do this? We all know AR Coating makes the world of difference to produce quality lenses. I just feel after doing that tour that any other methods of doing AR would be far more inferior. Maybe I am wrong and just too blown away to see anything else...

Thank you in advance for any info.

[mdeimler]

Actually, those numbers are very accurate.

[GokhanSF]

Edging only makes sense financially if you are doing 12-15 or more non-vsp jobs per day.

Surfacing only makes sense if your doing 40-50 or more jobs a day, digital is about 75 jobs a day.

AR only makes sense if you are doing over 75 jobs a day on average, assuming a small low cost machine.

If you don't have experience in any of these areas, add 25 jobs per day to the above. These are real numbers we worked up for a consult.

Totally agreed.