Poly Photochromic Problems

[Mike Fretto]

Were having problems within our practice with the above mentioned product delaminating in single vision and st 7x28 and 28 and 35's I don't want to be specific about Vendors but the above description should narrow it down. Is anyone else out there seeing the same problems? I'm getting mixed reports within our practice mainly from the offices that don't really sell it. We sell and grind a lot more in my location so were more apt to see a higher percentage of the problems. Our other lab does all CR39 and forwards us a couple poly orders a day but rarely the above mentioned product.

[chip anderson]

Didn't think there was any lamination involved. Thought the photo chromic was "absorbed" into the lens.

Chip

[Mike Fretto]

There is only one poly st28 photo. out there and it is laminated.

[mdeimler]

Vision Ease maybe, not sure. Opticians like to sell it in a rimless groove frame, also.

[Mike Fretto]

As I said earlier I dont want to slam any specific company but thats going to be hard to avoid with this particular combination. Im looking for some verification that this is a real problem or are we doing something wrong maybe in the edging area to bring this on down the road. The other possibility is people just arent selling it, weve run into insurance issues such as with VSP where the patients plan covers the combination in full. There are no other options in St28, st35 and 7x28 that Im aware of.

[mdeimler]

Yes it delaminates, especially with age. Many switch to plastic and hope for the best. No great solution that I know of...

[optilady1]

Trivex transitions is a great swap for the problems with poly transitions. I do not sell it unless there is no other option. I have seen the delamination be just a smidge at the side, to full blown, 10mm from the edge of lenses.

[Mike Fretto]

Weve done some of the Trivex product with great success the problem is the certain insurance plans that give the poly product to their members for nothing. Im not sure Ive ever heard why Transitions cant come up with a poly st28 etc. product. We attempted to remove the poly product from the retail choices but ran into the VSP thing insisting on poly.

[NCspecs]

There is only one poly st28 photo. out there and it is laminated.

The problem could be polycarbonate because I think Ft28 lenses in poly are only available in "LifeRx" as opposed to "Transitions" brand lenses. "LifeRx" has caused problems for me in past re: delamination. I'm not sure if anything has changed recently for Ft28 lenses in other materials but even my lab hates LifeRx.

[MikeAurelius]

If this is a similar delamination problem to what we saw when my company was making high index glass lamination, the reason falls into two categories usually:

1) lens is too thin (center or edge). Regardless of the substrate, when you get close to the lamination surface, any amount of "give" in the lens is going to cause stress at this location. Flexing in the frame, moving from hot to cold (sitting on dashboard on sunny day to getting blasted in the face with cold air from the car airconditioner). Back in the day, our recommendation was to surface the lenses with at least a 1.5 mm center thickness beyond the lamination thickness. As an example: if the supplier says the thickness of coverplate & cement layer(s) is 1.6 mm, my recommendation would be to finish no thinner than 3.1 mm.

2) edging issues. These fall into a couple of areas: apex of the bevel directly on the lamination line or apex of bevel only on the coverplate section of the lens, or lens edge is too thin. When the apex of the bevel is on the lamination line, you are applying equal pressure on both sides, however, if you have a thin center lens, you are actually putting a lot of stress on the coverplate. This is the same issue as putting the bevel entirely on the coverplate. My recommendation is to try to force the bevel back onto the carrier. With thin edge lenses, you are almost always going to have issues with delamination due to the flexing of the thin edge. I always used to recommend a 3.2 edge minimum on all laminated lenses. On metal or plastic frames, we always would recommend matching the c-size exact to slightly small, and to heat the plastic frame or disassemble the metal frame and never try to "snap" the lenses into a cold or assembled frame.

No laminated lens (IMO) should ever be made as a semi- or full- rimless lens. There is just too much risk for delamination.

Anyway, those are my two cents, based on past and current experience with laminated glass lenses -- the only difference as I see it is that a plastic lens is going to be more flexible, and hence more prone to delamination from that flex.

[SeaU2020]

Yes it does. Vision Ease Life Rx does have a 2 year warranty. 800-328-3449.

[Tito]

Speaking from personal experience ,the delamination issue with Life Rx has improved tremendously,I believe that problems with delaminations ocurring now are from lenses dispensed from older inventories.
Life Rx has been my primary photocromic since it's launch in 2007,when I started to experience returns I began tracking in great detail.From 2010 until now my percentage of returns have decreased by 98% .This year I've onely had 3 1/2 pairs come back ,out of many thousands of lenses I bought for my Lab in 2011.Vision Ease has stood up by the lenses ,which I respect.It's good to see the improvements because the lens is good performance.I hope to see more from them,I'm waiting for their plastic version

[spectaclegal]

yup, you cannot get straight tops period that are not laminated to my knowledge. I tell my 2 or 3 clients who wear straight tops with photo to mark it on their calendar to "check" their lenses in the 11th month & have them remade at that point under the warranty if a problem has begun, buying them an additional 12 months onto the life of the lenses. I tell them generally speaking, by the 24th month, most folks Rxs have changed at that point, so they'll likely need new lenses by then any how. Solved the problem in my shop.

[Judy Canty]

yup, you cannot get straight tops period that are not laminated to my knowledge. I tell my 2 or 3 clients who wear straight tops with photo to mark it on their calendar to "check" their lenses in the 11th month & have them remade at that point under the warranty, buying them an additional 12 months onto the life of the lenses. I tell them generally speaking, by the 24th month, most folks Rxs have changed at that point, so they'll likely need new lenses by then any how. Solved the problem in my shop.

Just out of curiosity, what reason do you give for the warranty remake?

[LENNY]

How about 20% residual tint!?:)

[spectaclegal]

Just out of curiosity, what reason do you give for the warranty remake?

Good question Judy.

In the case of my 2 or 3 clients wearing st transitions only.....

In the 11th month I tell them to "check their lenses" for any warrant-able deterioration. Mainly laminate peeling.

Otherwise, they come back just post warranty very unhappy. They don't actually even call me in the 11th month really, even after that suggestion. But at least if they do come back in the 19th month they know they have no right to hold it against me. However, someone here mentioned 2 year warranty. I am not a warranty abuser. Actually, I only verbally warrant things for 1 year in my shop. I don't think manufacturers should warrant things forever. Normal wear & tear is to be expected, I just don't like to see rapid deterioration in the 1st 12 months & as I mentioned earlier, their Rx is likely needing to be updated by the 24th month.