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Thread: Is "education" really the answer employers are looking for?

  1. #101
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Java99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by price View Post
    You are going in business with 5 opticians so if there's a problem and a vote 3/2 all have to agree. This will take care of the problem. Has to be an odd number to work. even number nothing gets dunn.
    I guess what I mean is why do you need partners that bring to the table what you already do. Is it just cost? Opticians/Dispensers need prescribers and vice versa, but opticians don't need other opticians for their skill set.

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    Oh you want to be in a seperated building but close to MD practices.
    I had a busness 30 miles east of Austin Tx. Great place I had a doctor to come in to practice but had a heart attack left me with no doctor. I should have open across from my former OD in Austin I would have taken 1/3 of his business. I did'nt want that fight.
    Donald D Price

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  3. #103
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    Share of up start its very hard for an opticain to get a business loan. If you have a good rich family member or friend to help its just hard even to get an SBA loan.
    Donald D Price

    Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry

  4. #104
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Java99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by price View Post
    Share of up start its very hard for an opticain to get a business loan. If you have a good rich family member or friend to help its just hard even to get an SBA loan.
    Hard but not impossible if you have a thoroughly thought out and researched plan. Good plans = loans. Great planning, smart buying = smaller loan = easier to get. But there's a million factors that go into that and I'm sure I don't know half of them.

  5. #105
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    Partners (HasslesX#of Partners) = No Thanks
    Profits
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  6. #106
    Optimentor Diane's Avatar
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    One of the things that is taught during a 2 year Associate Degree in Opticianry is a "Business Plan". Just one more reason why a formal education is a good thing.

    Diane
    Anything worth doing is worth doing well.

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    Last edited by idispense; 07-14-2013 at 10:06 AM.

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    One could actually contact the fellow that makes Boston Lager for start-up capital. He runs add saying he has a foundation (fundation perhaps?) that does just this.

    Chip

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    Last edited by idispense; 07-14-2013 at 10:06 AM.

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    Last edited by idispense; 07-14-2013 at 10:07 AM.

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    Last edited by idispense; 07-14-2013 at 10:07 AM.

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    Last edited by idispense; 07-14-2013 at 10:07 AM.

  13. #113
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    Using Luxottica as an example assumes that each brand is a separate entity, when in fact they all produce income for a single owner. They are more like the departments in a large retailer like a Macys or a Nordstrom. I simply don't see the future of an optical "commune".
    "Jargon is the last refuge of the scoundrel." --Roger Ebert

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    See some of you are not getting the big picture. If you have an operations of opticians and expand as essilor and Luxottica. We can control the optical market pulling our resources. Cost of frame and lens goods to a more affordable price. The OD's have done this in a couple states. They had started there own lab to cut cost also buying power of frame vendors.

    John if you would get a group like this it would give you better buying power. So if you had ten store you could'nt manage them all the same way. The chain stores have a problem with this even though they send their people to the company trainning, not everone is going to manage the store the same way. That is why if you had a group of opticians in a partnership of a business one day they could control their cost of goods. I have seen OD's do this many times it works. Why do you think there are so many buying groups most started by OD's.
    Donald D Price

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    Quote Originally Posted by price View Post
    That is why if you had a group of opticians in a partnership of a business one day they could control their cost of goods. I have seen OD's do this many times it works. Why do you think there are so many buying groups most started by OD's.
    This is really not a smart a** comment, but the ODs do it so they don't have to deal with negotiating. Or they're poor negotiators. Or because it's easier and they really don't want to be in the retail end of the business, don't want to deal with the optical side.

    I'm not saying this is a bad idea, I don't think that at all. But if you are a good negotiator and treat your vendors with the respect you expect in return, you can negotiate deals on your own that are as good or better than with a buying group.

    I think pooling resources can be beneficial and I'd entertain the idea. I don't think it's imperative for an optician to be successful, though, and I think many opticians believe they just cannot do it on their own, selling themselves short.

  16. #116
    Master OptiBoarder MakeOptics's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by price View Post
    See some of you are not getting the big picture. If you have an operations of opticians and expand as essilor and Luxottica. We can control the optical market pulling our resources. Cost of frame and lens goods to a more affordable price. The OD's have done this in a couple states. They had started there own lab to cut cost also buying power of frame vendors.

    John if you would get a group like this it would give you better buying power. So if you had ten store you could'nt manage them all the same way. The chain stores have a problem with this even though they send their people to the company trainning, not everone is going to manage the store the same way. That is why if you had a group of opticians in a partnership of a business one day they could control their cost of goods. I have seen OD's do this many times it works. Why do you think there are so many buying groups most started by OD's.
    Everyone thinks they are the expert.

    That is the reason why your idea won't work. Finding opticians who are willing to listen instead of constantly talk would be a tricky obstacle blocking this kind of idea. If one were to start a sort of buying group I would think a business incubator would be a very necessary and valuable product to offer as part and parcel with the concept. I would personally reach out to Essilor, Luxottica, and Eyemed. Before the flame war begins they have already saturated the market and the few here who think they are boycotting are not being anywhere near as effective as they believe. However if the large corporations have input into the business incubation part they can guage the possible success of the the corporations coming out of this group and offer their support more generously.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhiTrace View Post
    Everyone thinks they are the expert.

    That is the reason why your idea won't work. Finding opticians who are willing to listen instead of constantly talk would be a tricky obstacle blocking this kind of idea. If one were to start a sort of buying group I would think a business incubator would be a very necessary and valuable product to offer as part and parcel with the concept. I would personally reach out to Essilor, Luxottica, and Eyemed. Before the flame war begins they have already saturated the market and the few here who think they are boycotting are not being anywhere near as effective as they believe. However if the large corporations have input into the business incubation part they can guage the possible success of the the corporations coming out of this group and offer their support more generously.
    At what price? And at that point, why not open a Pearle franchise?

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by price View Post
    John if you would get a group like this it would give you better buying power. So if you had ten store you could'nt manage them all the same way.
    Why on earth would I want to split my profits w/ dead weight? I own nine stores, and am more than happy with the buying power I have. When I go to VEE and VEW, I team up with my Texas friend, and we have the buying power of 19 stores, but we pay our own way without a middleman taking a cut.
    Why do you think there are so many buying groups most started by OD's.
    For many reasons: (And of course this does NOT include ALL ODs...)

    1. Some OD's get tired of getting screwed by the vendors, so they figure out a way to screw each other.
    2. Many ODs don't have a clue when it comes to buying lenses, frames, and other products, so they follow others to buying groups like they are following the Pied Piper.
    3. They don't realize that everything's negotiable, and think that only a buying group can get them a good price (most are often paying just as much, or more to the buying group than if they worked a deal)
    4. Many ODs don't hire professional opticians to manage their practices and make their purchases by trial and error. A buying group is like a security blanket to them.
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    Ophthalmic Optician OptiBoard Gold Supporter
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    Quote Originally Posted by price View Post
    Share of up start its very hard for an opticain to get a business loan. If you have a good rich family member or friend to help its just hard even to get an SBA loan.
    I don't know of any opticians that ever even applied for an SBA loan, nor had a "good rich family".

    This is not brain surgery, and the barrier to entry is actually very low, considering the potential for great profits. Cost of goods are lower now, than when I got into the business 25 years ago. It's easier and cheaper to open an optical than it is a decent landscaping business.

    Of course, staying in business, and paying yourself are not easy, but that's why you don't just wake up one day and decide to open a business. You work for a few years, save enough to have money to live on for a few years, and give it a shot. If it doesn't work, you have an auction, take the $149 you get from that, and start over again.

    The only reason I decided to go into business was so that I wouldn't have to answer to a boss, or even worse...a partner.

    Groups of opticians "controlling" the market? Nobody is going to control the market. Not MDs, no ODs, and certainly not opticians. If there ever was an opportunity for that, it was way before our time, and it's not coming back.
    Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry

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    Last edited by idispense; 07-14-2013 at 10:08 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by idispense View Post
    I can agree with most of what is being said on the con side and understand where it is coming from. Parterships are tricky and although I brought up this model , my past makes me leary of partnerships just as Johns is skeptical. However there is a difference between the possibilities of models, one model could be a partnership , but I thinkl that is not what I actually suggested.

    Lets turn the tables for a moment and only think about lawyers , doctors and accountants ... not opticians .... lets discus the "why " concept that was brought up .


    So "Why?" is it the model of choice for lawyers and accountants ? Why does their model work for them and how is it structured ?
    Part of it may be that they are service rather than goods based, and they specialize to a much higher degree, so the mutual referrals are excellent cash generators.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by idispense View Post
    Lets turn the tables for a moment and only think about lawyers , doctors and accountants ... not opticians .... lets discus the "why " concept that was brought up .

    So "Why?" is it the model of choice for lawyers and accountants ? Why does their model work for them and how is it structured ?
    Doctors, lawyers, and accountants are ALL, ALL, ALL formally educated, and have higher level educations. Also, they are all in professions (note I did not say "trades") that are nationally recognized.

    At this point, opticianry is not a profession, but rather a trade. There are varying degrees of education, but most state require none. There are no national standards, the scope of practice varies widely, and most people cannot even define what an optician is.

    Lawyers, doctors, and accountants are peers. Opticians are peers with ODs and MDs like a Shetland pony is a peer to a Quarter horse.
    Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry

  23. #123
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
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    Plumbers and electricians are tradesmen, and they make a hell of alot more than most opticians.

    B

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    ah, you're thinking of the unions. A "good" HVAC tech or electrician might make around $20 per hour in this part of the country. I'm a good optician and I make more than $20 per hour.

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    Redhot Jumper Johns is right all the way.............................

    Quote Originally Posted by Johns View Post

    Groups of opticians "controlling" the market? Nobody is going to control the market. Not MDs, no ODs, and certainly not opticians. If there ever was an opportunity for that, it was way before our time, and it's not coming back.


    And the winner of this discussion is very clearly Johns....................................................

    .....he is right, it is not coming back, times have changed too drastically and fast. The only control of the market is on the big corporation level and they have adopted the newest child, opticals on line.

    The CBC has just aired a repat of their Market place show yesterday.
    Chris Ryser
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    http://optochemicals.com............................. http://arcoatings.com

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