Is "education" really the answer employers are looking for?

[B101875]

I too went to college. When I got out I could only find a job taking cleaning offices for $8 and now I say that frame looks good on you and take a pd and a sg ht for a living. 4 years did me good.

[optilady1]

Optilady, Im sorry you thought that I "assumed opticians with a degree won't be able to do the work." that is not how I ment to come across.

In my first line I said to "get the degree, but IF you cant do the work"............. I fail to see how one can assume that I had made a assumption when I had used the word "IF".

My reply wasn't against you, it's against so many here on OB who have a foul opinion about education because they are excellent opticians who didn't go to college. It's also against the opinion many have that "I've worked with opticians who have degrees and they were horrible, therefore there is no need for formal education."

It's an absolute fact that there are excellent apprentice opticians, master opticians, who have been doing this for 35+ years, who have built a foundation for this field in ways that us relative newbies could never do. But I can't imagine any other field where there is such an "us verses them" attitude. More power to you that you learned everything on the job. We ALL learn on the job.

But wouldn't it be great if most opticians out there learned in two years what apprentices did in their first 10 years?

[Chris Ryser]

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[Java99]

But wouldn't it be great if most opticians out there learned in two years what apprentices did in their first 10 years?

It would also be great if there was a chance at ROI for an optical education, if employers were really willing to pay more for an educated optician. Just a thought, not trying to rehash that whole thread.

[Judy Canty]

It would also be great if there was a chance at ROI for an optical education, if employers were really willing to pay more for an educated optician. Just a thought, not trying to rehash that whole thread.

You could probably say the same thing about nurses and teachers, but that doesn't stop people from pursuing those careers.

[sharpstick777]

Good points Darryl, and I would like to add to them...

Scary that some people would take this guy's advice seriously. I would challenge anyone to refute the following facts:

1. A significant percentage of jobs require higher education to even be considered and more of the best paying jobs will.

2. College graduates with a bachelor's degree earn on average twice as much as high school graduates according to the US BLS; those with advanced degrees earn three times as much.

3. Given two individuals equally qualified in every other way, most jobs will give preference to the individual with a degree over someone without one.

4. Today, with unemployment so high that companies have their pick of the crop, a college education is virtually a requirement to remain competitive in this job market.

Yes, if you get a degree in basket weaving, your degree may not command a high salary or be in especially high demand. And, yes, there are still jobs that do not necessarily require a degree to earn a high income, most notably sales, if you're good at sales and don't mind working strictly on commission.

But you'll find that most of the better paying jobs now see a college education as mandatory today. Even this guy's point regarding the demand for workers with job experience is asinine, since you need to get a job before you can actually earn any experience, and a having a degree is more likely to get you one.

Best regards,
Darryl

5. A College degree will increase your career options over your entire life, both in optical and out. Many high paid optical jobs in management and sales reps go to people with degrees but no optical experience. If you had a degree, you will simply have more high paying career options and be able to leverage your education and skills in new ways. It feels great to be recruited, and graduates are recruited exponentially more than non-graduates.

6. Stress. The more skills and knowledge you have, the less stress you will have in your career and job.

Although I agree that College is the best choice for today and the future, its a best solution, not a perfect one... but there will never be a perfect solution. There are legitimate problems with the college system, its inefficiencies and expense relative to income in Optical. Although these are legitimate concerns they still don't trump the basic truths Darryl has laid out here. The problems of not having a degree are simply greater than the problems of having one. Even owning an ugly car is faster than walking.

[AustinEyewear]

It would also be great if there was a chance at ROI for an optical education, if employers were really willing to pay more for an educated optician. Just a thought, not trying to rehash that whole thread.

Yes it would be great, but the education does not dictate the salary - the line of business dictates the salary. Optical is pretty much a retail business with lots of downward pressure. A complex one to be sure. There are a lot of struggling optical s out there, that could not afford to make the ROI a worthy investment. I hear about plenty that don't even pay their frame bills.

[sharpstick777]

It might surprise you, but Optical is a very high margin business. The money is there, its just not going to Opticians.

Although there the ROI is marginal in the short term, its very high over the course of our entire careers... the return on not investing is steadily declining income relative to inflation like we have had for over 20 years.

Yes it would be great, but the education does not dictate the salary - the line of business dictates the salary. Optical is pretty much a retail business with lots of downward pressure. A complex one to be sure. There are a lot of struggling optical s out there, that could not afford to make the ROI a worthy investment. I hear about plenty that don't even pay their frame bills.

[AustinEyewear]

It might surprise you, but Optical is a very high margin business. The money is there, its just not going to Opticians.

Although there the ROI is marginal in the short term, its very high over the course of our entire careers... the return on not investing is steadily declining income relative to inflation like we have had for over 20 years.

Two counter points to consider:

# My original statement it seems you agree with at least in what you consider the short term. Which is my point, there are a lot of struggling optical less than 10 years old that have no money to share. Not every optician is going to have the opportunity to work for the high rollers.

# Hi-ROI over a long period of time is very subjective. If you sit back in an arm chair and look at cash flow statements over some time period then I can see how you would say this. But if you consider total opportunity cost then it becomes much more subjective. A few things to consider:

1. All the lost nights and weekends put into the business that don't show up on cash flow statements (could be reduced by hiring additional personnel, but then you'd have lower salaries across the board)
2. The lost opportunity cost on just working for someone else -vs- working for peanuts when you first open the optical (its a bunch if you're in a field that commands a high salary)
3. Your original investment in the optical, lets say its a piddly 1M. Don't forget to amortize this lost investment opportunity.
4. Risk of bankruptcy and losing it all. Investors should get something back for their risk or why bother.

These are just a few, don't forget to back them out of the cash flow statements over the life of the optical before calculating ROI. That extra cash you see flowing to the owners is to pay back school loans, biz loans, make up for lost salaries, make up for investments that could have been made elsewhere, the risk they took, and all the 80 hours weeks they put in so long ago - not to mention the 80 hours weeks they put in so they could save enough to start the optical in the first place.

[sharpstick777]

Austin, your points on ROI are valid and I have considered those myself. The opportunties to improve our salaries will not happen overnight, and if we look only at the numbers we may never recoup our full investment if money was the only factor. If I only looked at the numbers, I would not have made most of my best business decisions. I need to combine numbers with a wide view of over-all trends, the histories of other industries and the failures of our past.

I just know that most of the big wigs in this industry have college degrees but no dispensing background. If Opticians were able to take their valuable first-hand knowledge, patient experience and mix it with a business degree, it would transform the industry because we would kick some butt. Its not just the dispensing table, its the industry decision making I am thinking of, and Opticians are not invited to that table because of our lack of education.

Two counter points to consider:

# My original statement it seems you agree with at least in what you consider the short term. Which is my point, there are a lot of struggling optical less than 10 years old that have no money to share. Not every optician is going to have the opportunity to work for the high rollers.

# Hi-ROI over a long period of time is very subjective. If you sit back in an arm chair and look at cash flow statements over some time period then I can see how you would say this. But if you consider total opportunity cost then it becomes much more subjective. A few things to consider:

1. All the lost nights and weekends put into the business that don't show up on cash flow statements (could be reduced by hiring additional personnel, but then you'd have lower salaries across the board)
2. The lost opportunity cost on just working for someone else -vs- working for peanuts when you first open the optical (its a bunch if you're in a field that commands a high salary)
3. Your original investment in the optical, lets say its a piddly 1M. Don't forget to amortize this lost investment opportunity.
4. Risk of bankruptcy and losing it all. Investors should get something back for their risk or why bother.

These are just a few, don't forget to back them out of the cash flow statements over the life of the optical before calculating ROI. That extra cash you see flowing to the owners is to pay back school loans, biz loans, make up for lost salaries, make up for investments that could have been made elsewhere, the risk they took, and all the 80 hours weeks they put in so long ago - not to mention the 80 hours weeks they put in so they could save enough to start the optical in the first place.

[Jacqui]

I just know that most of the big wigs in this industry have college degrees but no dispensing background. If Opticians were able to take their valuable first-hand knowledge, patient experience and mix it with a business degree, it would transform the industry because we would kick some butt. Its not just the dispensing table, its the industry decision making I am thinking of, and Opticians are not invited to that table because of our lack of education.

Yup

[Pogu]

Me personally, I wouldn't get educated for the sake of getting a job. If education doesn't lead to a job, get to thinking and make one.

[pseudonym]

No one asked my opinion, but this is an opinion thread so here goes: I got a lot of theoretical knowledge in school. Wrote a lot of papers because there's only one optical school in NC. Many classes are online so everyone in the state has access.

We learned the rudiments of adjustments in Dispensing I and II. But I honestly believe whatever skill I possess came from PRACTICE with an old school optician who checked everything I did and didn't let me dispense it until it was right. Still, I wouldn't have begun to know what he was talking about (panto, retro, plus, minus lens, standard alignment etc.) if I didn't have the background from school.

I think NC has the perfect combination of formal school and apprenticeship. Oh, and real strict laws that say opticians can't dispense without a licensed person on site :)

[idispense]

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[idispense]

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