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Thread: Is "education" really the answer employers are looking for?

  1. #51
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    Good points Darryl, and I would like to add to them...

    Quote Originally Posted by Darryl Meister View Post
    Scary that some people would take this guy's advice seriously. I would challenge anyone to refute the following facts:

    1. A significant percentage of jobs require higher education to even be considered and more of the best paying jobs will.

    2. College graduates with a bachelor's degree earn on average twice as much as high school graduates according to the US BLS; those with advanced degrees earn three times as much.

    3. Given two individuals equally qualified in every other way, most jobs will give preference to the individual with a degree over someone without one.

    4. Today, with unemployment so high that companies have their pick of the crop, a college education is virtually a requirement to remain competitive in this job market.

    Yes, if you get a degree in basket weaving, your degree may not command a high salary or be in especially high demand. And, yes, there are still jobs that do not necessarily require a degree to earn a high income, most notably sales, if you're good at sales and don't mind working strictly on commission.

    But you'll find that most of the better paying jobs now see a college education as mandatory today. Even this guy's point regarding the demand for workers with job experience is asinine, since you need to get a job before you can actually earn any experience, and a having a degree is more likely to get you one.

    Best regards,
    Darryl
    5. A College degree will increase your career options over your entire life, both in optical and out. Many high paid optical jobs in management and sales reps go to people with degrees but no optical experience. If you had a degree, you will simply have more high paying career options and be able to leverage your education and skills in new ways. It feels great to be recruited, and graduates are recruited exponentially more than non-graduates.

    6. Stress. The more skills and knowledge you have, the less stress you will have in your career and job.

    Although I agree that College is the best choice for today and the future, its a best solution, not a perfect one... but there will never be a perfect solution. There are legitimate problems with the college system, its inefficiencies and expense relative to income in Optical. Although these are legitimate concerns they still don't trump the basic truths Darryl has laid out here. The problems of not having a degree are simply greater than the problems of having one. Even owning an ugly car is faster than walking.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Java99 View Post
    It would also be great if there was a chance at ROI for an optical education, if employers were really willing to pay more for an educated optician. Just a thought, not trying to rehash that whole thread.
    Yes it would be great, but the education does not dictate the salary - the line of business dictates the salary. Optical is pretty much a retail business with lots of downward pressure. A complex one to be sure. There are a lot of struggling optical s out there, that could not afford to make the ROI a worthy investment. I hear about plenty that don't even pay their frame bills.

  3. #53
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    It might surprise you, but Optical is a very high margin business. The money is there, its just not going to Opticians.

    Although there the ROI is marginal in the short term, its very high over the course of our entire careers... the return on not investing is steadily declining income relative to inflation like we have had for over 20 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by AustinEyewear View Post
    Yes it would be great, but the education does not dictate the salary - the line of business dictates the salary. Optical is pretty much a retail business with lots of downward pressure. A complex one to be sure. There are a lot of struggling optical s out there, that could not afford to make the ROI a worthy investment. I hear about plenty that don't even pay their frame bills.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharpstick777 View Post
    It might surprise you, but Optical is a very high margin business. The money is there, its just not going to Opticians.

    Although there the ROI is marginal in the short term, its very high over the course of our entire careers... the return on not investing is steadily declining income relative to inflation like we have had for over 20 years.
    Two counter points to consider:

    # My original statement it seems you agree with at least in what you consider the short term. Which is my point, there are a lot of struggling optical less than 10 years old that have no money to share. Not every optician is going to have the opportunity to work for the high rollers.

    # Hi-ROI over a long period of time is very subjective. If you sit back in an arm chair and look at cash flow statements over some time period then I can see how you would say this. But if you consider total opportunity cost then it becomes much more subjective. A few things to consider:

    1. All the lost nights and weekends put into the business that don't show up on cash flow statements (could be reduced by hiring additional personnel, but then you'd have lower salaries across the board)
    2. The lost opportunity cost on just working for someone else -vs- working for peanuts when you first open the optical (its a bunch if you're in a field that commands a high salary)
    3. Your original investment in the optical, lets say its a piddly 1M. Don't forget to amortize this lost investment opportunity.
    4. Risk of bankruptcy and losing it all. Investors should get something back for their risk or why bother.

    These are just a few, don't forget to back them out of the cash flow statements over the life of the optical before calculating ROI. That extra cash you see flowing to the owners is to pay back school loans, biz loans, make up for lost salaries, make up for investments that could have been made elsewhere, the risk they took, and all the 80 hours weeks they put in so long ago - not to mention the 80 hours weeks they put in so they could save enough to start the optical in the first place.

  5. #55
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    Austin, your points on ROI are valid and I have considered those myself. The opportunties to improve our salaries will not happen overnight, and if we look only at the numbers we may never recoup our full investment if money was the only factor. If I only looked at the numbers, I would not have made most of my best business decisions. I need to combine numbers with a wide view of over-all trends, the histories of other industries and the failures of our past.

    I just know that most of the big wigs in this industry have college degrees but no dispensing background. If Opticians were able to take their valuable first-hand knowledge, patient experience and mix it with a business degree, it would transform the industry because we would kick some butt. Its not just the dispensing table, its the industry decision making I am thinking of, and Opticians are not invited to that table because of our lack of education.

    Quote Originally Posted by AustinEyewear View Post
    Two counter points to consider:

    # My original statement it seems you agree with at least in what you consider the short term. Which is my point, there are a lot of struggling optical less than 10 years old that have no money to share. Not every optician is going to have the opportunity to work for the high rollers.

    # Hi-ROI over a long period of time is very subjective. If you sit back in an arm chair and look at cash flow statements over some time period then I can see how you would say this. But if you consider total opportunity cost then it becomes much more subjective. A few things to consider:

    1. All the lost nights and weekends put into the business that don't show up on cash flow statements (could be reduced by hiring additional personnel, but then you'd have lower salaries across the board)
    2. The lost opportunity cost on just working for someone else -vs- working for peanuts when you first open the optical (its a bunch if you're in a field that commands a high salary)
    3. Your original investment in the optical, lets say its a piddly 1M. Don't forget to amortize this lost investment opportunity.
    4. Risk of bankruptcy and losing it all. Investors should get something back for their risk or why bother.

    These are just a few, don't forget to back them out of the cash flow statements over the life of the optical before calculating ROI. That extra cash you see flowing to the owners is to pay back school loans, biz loans, make up for lost salaries, make up for investments that could have been made elsewhere, the risk they took, and all the 80 hours weeks they put in so long ago - not to mention the 80 hours weeks they put in so they could save enough to start the optical in the first place.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharpstick777 View Post
    I just know that most of the big wigs in this industry have college degrees but no dispensing background. If Opticians were able to take their valuable first-hand knowledge, patient experience and mix it with a business degree, it would transform the industry because we would kick some butt. Its not just the dispensing table, its the industry decision making I am thinking of, and Opticians are not invited to that table because of our lack of education.
    Yup

  7. #57
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    Me personally, I wouldn't get educated for the sake of getting a job. If education doesn't lead to a job, get to thinking and make one.

  8. #58
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    No one asked my opinion, but this is an opinion thread so here goes: I got a lot of theoretical knowledge in school. Wrote a lot of papers because there's only one optical school in NC. Many classes are online so everyone in the state has access.

    We learned the rudiments of adjustments in Dispensing I and II. But I honestly believe whatever skill I possess came from PRACTICE with an old school optician who checked everything I did and didn't let me dispense it until it was right. Still, I wouldn't have begun to know what he was talking about (panto, retro, plus, minus lens, standard alignment etc.) if I didn't have the background from school.

    I think NC has the perfect combination of formal school and apprenticeship. Oh, and real strict laws that say opticians can't dispense without a licensed person on site :)

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    Last edited by idispense; 07-14-2013 at 10:09 AM.

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    Last edited by idispense; 07-14-2013 at 10:09 AM.

  11. #61
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    We can't even get along with each other on an anonymous bulletin board.

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    Last edited by idispense; 07-14-2013 at 10:09 AM.

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    Last edited by idispense; 07-14-2013 at 10:10 AM.

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    Last edited by idispense; 07-14-2013 at 10:10 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by idispense View Post
    I have no doubts that we can get along and work together. Perhaps we just need to stop thinking in terms of competing with each other and figure how Drs, lawyers and accountants work in their joint models.
    They are not retail.

  16. #66
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    I must be very tired. I just can't see this utopian optical community.

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    Last edited by idispense; 07-14-2013 at 10:11 AM.

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    Last edited by idispense; 07-14-2013 at 10:11 AM.

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    Can I watch and listen when you tell your Dr, lawyer and accountant that they're retailers??

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    Last edited by idispense; 07-14-2013 at 10:12 AM.

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    Last edited by idispense; 07-14-2013 at 10:12 AM.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacqui View Post
    I have a Doctor of Nursing degree, I make lenses. Everyone tells me I'm over qualified for any of the nursing positions that I've applied for.
    Hmm....I have two family members with AS degrees in nursing. One just received a $3800 sign on bonus and will be making $62k, the other travels around the country, six weeks at a time, and made over $75k last year.

    There must not be much of a demand for nurses in optical labs.
    Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry

  23. #73
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    Maybe she nurses broken edgers ?

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by idispense View Post
    Medical buildings bring different Drs together in a condo office environment where each maintains their own clientel and their specialties are convenient for the public under one roof. Their condo agreement and Board of Directors for the building can set guidelines for tenancy. In the case of opticians , some may specialize in contacts and others in eyeglasses , some may be brand specific and not overlap on the others in the group. MIght even have joint secretarial staff to keep track of each persons CE credits for relicensing.

    I like this outside the box thinking. Maybe this should be discussed further. Developing a business plan, and doing some marketing research may just be warranted. Keep talking......

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by pseudonym View Post
    No one asked my opinion, but this is an opinion thread so here goes: I got a lot of theoretical knowledge in school. Wrote a lot of papers because there's only one optical school in NC. Many classes are online so everyone in the state has access.

    We learned the rudiments of adjustments in Dispensing I and II. But I honestly believe whatever skill I possess came from PRACTICE with an old school optician who checked everything I did and didn't let me dispense it until it was right. Still, I wouldn't have begun to know what he was talking about (panto, retro, plus, minus lens, standard alignment etc.) if I didn't have the background from school.

    I think NC has the perfect combination of formal school and apprenticeship. Oh, and real strict laws that say opticians can't dispense without a licensed person on site :)
    This is typical of education of any type. All of the optical schools require some hands-on clinical experiences, as well as on-campus dispensaries to provide that side of the learning experience. Even with that, folks who graduate are not yet proficient.......that comes with time. They are competent, but need seasoning. The same is true for Harvard MBAs. When they leave to go to work for a large organization, the folks at that organization typically place them in a 6-month training program to learn the specific requirements of that organization. NC has a solid approach and should be a model. NY, Florida, Virginia and others are very similar. This is the path we need to tak across the country to improve this field.

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