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Thread: Lens comparison for patients of non-dispensing doctor's office

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    Question Lens comparison for patients of non-dispensing doctor's office

    For offices that only do exams but don't sell glasses, is there a consumer guide to steer patients to help them select a progressive lens from the popular retail outfits they will go to, even if the quality snobs here might look down on them? Or does anyone here at least have thoughts on the lenses most patients will actually be choosing from? I'm new to this and don't know how the options compare. e.g. how does the Lenscrafter Signature HD lens compare to whatever Costco, Walmart and Pearle Vision Offer? How do the different Walmart high index lenses compare? (they have Zeiss, Seiko and Nikon among others, though I don't know what models).

    For comparison purpose if you want one example, consider one patient with a high prescription and some difference between the eyes, e.g.:
    O.D. -6.00 Cyl -1.50 095 Add +2.00
    O.S. -9.50 Cyl -0.75 090 Add +2.00

    Thanks.

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    Master OptiBoarder TLG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OpticalNewbie View Post
    For offices that only do exams but don't sell glasses, is there a consumer guide to steer patients to help them select a progressive lens from the popular retail outfits they will go toThanks.
    Yes, there is a consumer 'guide'; we call them 'Opticians'.
    What I'm saying is that this decision belongs in the hands of the person fitting the eyewear, not the one who did the eye exam...or a pamphlet.

    WELCOME TO OPTIBOARD! First post and you already called us 'snobs' - still nice to have you along!

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    Pssst....Tony! We got called "quality snobs"!

    I agree with Tony, about the guide. You have to remember that the "flavor" brand used at some of the chains you mentioned changes with the political and economic winds!

    Welcome to the forum, opticalnewbie!

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    Quote Originally Posted by OpticalNewbie View Post
    For offices that only do exams but don't sell glasses, is there a consumer guide to steer patients to help them select a progressive lens from the popular retail outfits they will go to, even if the quality snobs here might look down on them?
    Hi, I'm one of those "snobs".

    Let me rephrase the question for you. "Hi, I'm a consumer, and want to buy cheap glasses somewhere, but want to get all the information about them from a pamphlet."

    Correct me if I'm wrong (wouldn't be the first time today), but that's the way I'm reading it.
    Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry

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    Are there really that many customers that ask about the technical differences between specific brand name products as opposed to asking the difference between free form versus non-free form or generic product versus a brand ? I can count on two hands the intelligent engineer types that have asked me about technical difference between brands , but usually they bought elsewhere based on price thinking they were getting a deal then came back asking me to solve their vision problems with the new glasses . Those vision problems usually turned out to be centration and seg height and fitting problems not brand problems .

    The first mistake made was to select branded lens versus branded person with the education and experience to properly select, fit, and adjust those branded lenses.


    However there is terrific value in the sale by selling /explaining a "Brand" they can identify with over a non-brand. That is the value added portion of using Nikon or Zeiss or Kodak . The brand commands premium dollar and is best compared against non-brand in the decision making process. You do not wantthe customer to have an interbrand war or conflict.


    The lesson for me was to concentrate on "normal flow customers " as opposed to shoppers who were really price people not brand people at all.

    The point being that we need to move customners in a flow from 1 point in the eyewear/lens selection process to the next. The technical customer is motivated by wanting quality and talking quality so the first step from a Dr is to sell that customer on the branded expert who possesses the knowledge to answer those questions . A non-dispensing Dr should not enter that portion of the process regarding which lens to buy . He should sell the referral to the expert that is branded to know which individual product brand to use for that technical patient's visual needs.

    A non-dispesning Dr should have no part in product selection other than which dispenser to refer to.
    Last edited by idispense; 03-29-2012 at 06:24 AM.

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    It is, or should be, up to the optician to make the decision regarding lenses, not the one doing the exam. Opticians are the ones that have to keep up with current technology in lenses so that they can choose what is best for the patient. But... if you really want to recommend a lens you can always choose the most expensive one. :D
    Jonathan

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    One eye sees, the other feels OptiBoard Silver Supporter
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    Quote Originally Posted by idispense View Post
    Those vision problems usually turned out to be centration and seg height and fitting problems not brand problems.
    Indeed. I tried to play golf a long time ago- the ball would go to the right or to the left, but only rarely down the fairway. I even tried some extremely pricey, hi-tech clubs, but it made no difference. The only time the clubs made a difference was the time I rented a set that were to short- I'd take my swing and miss the ball completely.

    OpticalNewbie,

    Locate two or three of the best opticians in your area and refer your clients to them.
    Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. - Richard P. Feynman

    Experience is the hardest teacher. She gives the test before the lesson.



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    OpticalNewbie,

    Locate two or three of the best opticians in your area and refer your clients to them.

    +1 for this idea!!!!! Completely up to the trained and educated optician to choose which lens would fit the patients needs. It is more than just the Rx that you need to consider. It would be nice to say that one lens would fit all, but without ALL the information from the patient, there could be many.

    Welcome to the site OpticalNewbie.

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    I sense a consumer post.

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    Cheaper almost always equals lower quality. Sorry. And with your Rx, you better not go cheap.

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    I suspect the negative posts are all dispensing opticians and have difficulty grasping that not all eye doctors sell glasses. Its seems an appropriate customer service to give some guidance to patients who will buy their glasses elsewhere rather than leaving them stranded and clueless. Being able to provide guidance would help prevent defection of patients to doctors at those retailers. Its sad that some people here have trouble grasping there isn't an obvious source of information to steer patients to and that its a logical business tactic to provide them neutral guidance on where to go depending on their needs. A large fraction of the public is going to buy lenses from Costco, Walmart, et al., no matter what your fantasies are that they'll go and find the perfect private optical store. The sales people at each major retail chain will likely be pushing their own brand. How do the lenses compare between chains? Yes, the selection changes as someone pointed out, but that doesn't magically remove the utility of being able to provide some guidance.

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    I'd suggest its of use to dispensing opticians here to be able to answer the question "Why should I got to you rather than a chain?" more specifically than a vague reference to quality, and to communicate that to local non-dispensing doctors. Eyecare is a business even if many here aren't focused on that aspect of it, I'm considering what business advice to provide to an eye doctor.

    So I'll add alternatively you could give guidance on explaining the cost/benefit of using a private optician rather than a chain. Why should they be steered to one? What is the benefit, how much difference does it really make and how to explain that? How should the best local opticians be selected? What lenses should they look for to help assess the quality of an optician?

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    I like the new lense from Essilor... The Essilor Acquisition. Helps you gobble up everything in sight.
    Clinton Tower

    The intellect to live free is in short supply
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    Love it, that's funny! As Larry the Cable Guy would say, I Don't Care Who You Are, That's Funny, Right There!

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    Quote Originally Posted by scriptfiller View Post
    I like the new lense from Essilor... The Essilor Acquisition. Helps you gobble up everything in sight.
    Ha! And if you don't buy into the Acquisition, be prepared for the 'Inquisition'. It's old school, but it gets results.
    Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. - Richard P. Feynman

    Experience is the hardest teacher. She gives the test before the lesson.



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    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousCat View Post
    I sense a consumer post.
    Let me rephrase the question for you. "Hi, I'm a consumer, and want to buy cheap glasses somewhere, but want to get all the information about them from a pamphlet."

    Correct me if I'm wrong (wouldn't be the first time today), but that's the way I'm reading it.


    ...
    Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    Dear OpticalNewbie,

    You know, a little honesty would have been appropriate. You could have communicated with many of us through PM, and received more appropriate advice than this thread has produced.
    Play nice, follow the rules and so will we.

    Peace out!

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    Newbie: We have no trouble grasping the idea that not all eye doctors sell glasses. This used to be true of all of the MD's and we opticians loved them as it gave us a chance to be independents and actually make money. Unfortunately some idiot optician shared the fact that he was making money and the good doctors wanted that for themselves.
    We all love an applaude the few ethical MD's that do exams and do not sell eyeglasses, unfortuantely there are so few of them left, that many of the younger opticians don't even know of the concept.
    As to cheap consumers like yourself that want to go to chains and mail order, who needs them?

    Chip

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    Quote Originally Posted by chip anderson View Post
    We all love an applaude the few ethical MD's that do exams and do not sell eyeglasses, unfortuantely there are so few of them left, that many of the younger opticians don't even know of the concept.
    As to cheap consumers like yourself that want to go to chains and mail order, who needs them?
    I'm trying to give advice to an OD who does exams and doesn't sell glasses.
    Many customers are cheap only because they don't know why they shouldn't be. Customers don't want to needlessly waste money. Private opticians apparently don't care enough about their own livelihood or about prospective patients to bother to learn anything about marketing. (which is partly why they aren't running chains themselves).

    Its sad that people can't grasp the concept of providing a coherent explanation as to why customers should be steered to a non-chain optician. Vague comments about "quality" won't convince a skeptical consumer who wants to understand why that quality is worth the price.

    If you are incapable of explaining it, thats fine, but unfortunate both for the business future of private opticians and for patients who would benefit if those opticians bothered to learn something about business.

    Its also sad that they don't grasp that even patients that are being "cheap" deserve the best vision for the money they can get when they go to a chain. Not everyone is rich.
    Last edited by OpticalNewbie; 04-02-2012 at 07:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousCat View Post
    Dear OpticalNewbie,

    You know, a little honesty would have been appropriate. You could have communicated with many of us through PM, and received more appropriate advice than this thread has produced.
    Play nice, follow the rules and so will we.

    Peace out!
    I played nice. I asked a valid question. Eye doctors that don't dispense don't know all the lenses. Its unclear who I should have PMed and how I should have known to do so and why a topic shouldn't be publicly discussed.

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    Last we checked on Costco, they were pushing some really old PAL technology. Call them and ask yourself, but it was pretty old, and not that great. LC does the same thing, most of these chains do the same thing. They want to buy frames for $3 and charge $100 for them. That's how they work in optics too. They really are a terrible value. I would recommend that you call and do some research, and then come back here with some real data that people can then respond to. Your question is way to vague.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OpticalNewbie View Post
    For comparison purpose if you want one example, consider one patient with a high prescription and some difference between the eyes, e.g.:
    O.D. -6.00 Cyl -1.50 095 Add +2.00
    O.S. -9.50 Cyl -0.75 090 Add +2.00

    Thanks.
    Your Doctor wants his Anisometropia, most likely Aniseikonia patient with off axis vertical and horizontal imbalance as well as reading imbalance to pick his glasses from a pamphlet?

    Please, Please come back with you Doctor's answer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OpticalNewbie View Post
    I'm trying to give advice to an OD who does exams and doesn't sell glasses.
    Some folks are questioning your ophthalmic pedigree. You can clear that up by coding the sample Rx you provided, with a short description of what your concerns are when filling this Rx. Assume that both eyes are healthy except for a grade 2 nuclear cataract in the left. VA 20/20 and 20/25.

    How do the lenses compare between chains?
    Not relevant. I don't judge eye doctors by the brand of equipment in their office. I choose by reputation, how much time is spent with each client, feedback from other clients, and objective results (the ability to get it right the first time). Do the same for the optician. In the 28 states that don't regulate opticianry, confirm that they have at least the minimum certification.
    Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. - Richard P. Feynman

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    Still think we have a consumer here...or maybe an online retailer doing some marketing research. The rx is so randomly off the norm, and without enough real information to provide a comprehensive answer, that I remain suspicious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Martellaro View Post
    Some folks are questioning your ophthalmic pedigree. You can clear that up by coding the sample Rx you provided, with a short description of what your concerns are when filling this Rx. Assume that both eyes are healthy except for a grade 2 nuclear cataract in the left. VA 20/20 and 20/25.
    .
    The site refers to eyecare professionals, presumably those helping with the business side of an eyecare establishment qualify as a professional involved in eyecare.I asked a question as part of addressing an issue incredibly obvious to those with any business background even if it isn't to those with only an optical background who perhaps might operate a business but don't know much about marketing or customer service.

    A non-dispensing doctor that can give patients good neutral advice between chains&private opticians and different lens choices will help win patient loyalty so they are less likely to defect to a chain, and more likely to refer their friends&family. I stated I was dealing with a non-dispensing OD, not that I was one. I figured it matters more where someone with a prescription like this gets their lens than someone with a low power single vision lens, so I figured it would make a good sample case.

    As I noted its useful for private opticians to be able to explain to customers (or to local eye doctors) why someone should consider using them rather than a chain, why it might be worth the extra money in concrete terms they can relate to rather than say a vague general comment about quality which doesn't tell concretely why it might be worth their money. e.g. that " there are X% non-adapts in cheap lenses but in X lens its more like..." Or "the cheap non free form lens they use will have a narrow intermediate zone compared to these free form lenses so.." . I used an example where the quality of the lens will make a difference. Which chain should they go to if they don't have the money for more than a chain? If they go to a private optician, what guidance is there on what lenses they should consider in case the optician isn't 1st rate or is pushing just the ones they happen to be familiar with?

    What source of information compares lens between these chains? If there is none, what comments do people have on them, would it be of use collecting them to create such a resource?
    Is there a better site to ask? I figured progressive lens choices were more of an issue than single vision so I started with this forum rather than the general one on this site.

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