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Thread: Lens comparison for patients of non-dispensing doctor's office

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by OpticalNewbie View Post
    A non-dispensing doctor that can give patients good neutral advice between chains&private opticians and different lens choices will help win patient loyalty so they are less likely to defect to a chain, and more likely to refer their friends&family. I stated I was dealing with a non-dispensing OD, not that I was one. I figured it matters more where someone with a prescription like this gets their lens than someone with a low power single vision lens, so I figured it would make a good sample case.
    What chain is the doctor next door to that you're performing this research for?

  2. #27
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    OpticalNewbie, you aren't going to find one answer from all the qualified opticians here. We are independent practitioners here, and many have opinions different from one another. We each have our own "brand" that we may prefer, but it really comes down to the patient sitting in front of us at the moment. The biggest difference I see, is that any Optician worth a grain of salt will sit down with the patient and spend time getting to know the patient they are fitting, and select the best product for that person. Many "Chain Store" opticians don't have that luxury. Notice I said many! There are also some fine Opticians at these "Chain Stores" that will and do spend that time.

    Going back to your original post, I think the tone you are receiving here was originally set by you calling us optical snobs. If you don't appreciate being berated, you should consider presenting in a little more acceptable tone. Good luck in your persuit of finding your answers. I do most certainly hope this helps you.

    P.S. I don't have trouble marketing myself, and business is just fine with or without the chain stores.

    Rich

  3. #28
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    A non-dispensing eye doctor can mearly say: "Go there they are honest and know what they are doing."
    A dispensing eye doctor can say: "Go there I have a piece of the action."

    Chip

  4. #29
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    Well, I read all these posts. I workedfor an MD once. 2 of the worst months of my life. 4 techs did therefracting and 2 were go and 2 were bad. Highest remakes ever! Iwill say that I thought all MD's did Plus cyl. Could you please putthis Rx back into the Plus Cyl?


    The reason why chains sell so cheap isb/c they are selling palls that are 10 to 15 years old in design. It's unfair for you to say that we are no good b/c we don't own ourown store. There is a lot a lot that goes into owning your ownstore. And we do not want the head ache.


    The reason why you bring your Rx to theOptician is because they ask questions.
    Do you want your glasses to get darkwhen you go outside? Transitions.
    Small frame? Limits how many palls youcan go into.
    Hi-Index, Trivex, Poly, Rimless? Alldifferent palls.
    Do you play golf? Hunt?


    You can't get these answers in apamphlet. You should be looking for brands and a couple of opticiansto refer to. They may even give your pt's a discount.


    Was it a tech or the Dr that came up w/this Rx or is this just a made up Rx. If you are a consumer. Pleasecome see me. I will have my OD refract you again and I will get youinto a nice pall.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousCat View Post
    Still think we have a consumer here...or maybe an online retailer doing some marketing research.
    Yup.

    It's still a good questin though, and for consumers who are reading this, here goes... shop for the optician, not the optical company, or lens brand. The best opticians tend to migrate towards the independent doctors, eye clinics, eye institutes, or independent optician shops. Check their credentials, BBB status, maybe a referral, and look for decades of experience, especially if you are over age 50 and/or wear a more complex Rx.
    Robert Martellaro
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    www.roberts-optical.com
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    A mime-free zone.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by B101875 View Post
    The reason why chains sell so cheap isb/c they are selling palls that are 10 to 15 years old in design. It's unfair for you to say that we are no good b/c we don't own ourown store. There is a lot a lot that goes into owning your ownstore. And we do not want the head ache.
    Yep, they are running the law of numbers, expecting remakes and returns, but enough volume will compensate for these losses and the problems that the poor quality they offer creates.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Martellaro View Post
    It's still a good questin though,
    I think so too. Now if we can get this person do go do his/her own homework and report back to us with the findings that would be great.

  8. #33
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter NCspecs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OpticalNewbie View Post
    For offices that only do exams but don't sell glasses, is there a consumer guide to steer patients to help them select a progressive lens from the popular retail outfits they will go to, even if the quality snobs here might look down on them? Or does anyone here at least have thoughts on the lenses most patients will actually be choosing from? I'm new to this and don't know how the options compare. e.g. how does the Lenscrafter Signature HD lens compare to whatever Costco, Walmart and Pearle Vision Offer? How do the different Walmart high index lenses compare? (they have Zeiss, Seiko and Nikon among others, though I don't know what models).

    For comparison purpose if you want one example, consider one patient with a high prescription and some difference between the eyes, e.g.:
    O.D. -6.00 Cyl -1.50 095 Add +2.00
    O.S. -9.50 Cyl -0.75 090 Add +2.00

    Thanks.
    I gave this explanation to a different "non-optical poster":


    "A solution I can offer here is that we all pitch in and try to find a way for you to sit down with a solid, well-certified Optician in your area. My recommendation is to call a few Opticials in your area and verify that the Optician you are working with is seasoned and licensed. Because of your profession, I would suggest taking this extra step so you can find someone who is able to answer all of your questions.

    Now, here is a little bit of advice I can give. Nothing raises the hackles of a good Optician like an engineer and a sardonic, "I'm smarter than you" approach will do nothing to sweeten the mood of the person trying to help you. I can promise you that an Optical license is not given away and that you may have to concede to the fact that the person you find might actually be more knowledgable than yourself when it comes to the science of Optics.

    I hope this puts a postive light on our reluctance to offer online support but the the "computer" (i.e. the human brain) we work with is an unfathomable mystery. I hope your needs are met and that you have a pleasant experience that leads to a long-term relationship with a great Optician!"

    There is no such thing as a "Progressive Grid". I work for a private OD and when I sit down with a patient regarding the fit of one of 490+ progressive designs that I have to choose from it's a customized fit. Typically the chain opticals can only fit what the corporate fat cats have told them they can fit. They don't have the choices that private opticans have or sometimes the experience that comes with working with several different designs. If you were my patient, I would have you narrowed down to about 5 different designs just by looking at your Rx. I can't even begin to recommend anything by name however because I don't have your full medical chart.

    I hope this clears up the confusion.

    Cheers.
    "Strictly speaking, there are no enlightened beings; only enlightened activity." -Shunryu Suzuki

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCspecs View Post
    I gave this explanation to a different "non-optical poster":


    "A solution I can offer here is that we all pitch in and try to find a way for you to sit down with a solid, well-certified Optician in your area. My recommendation is to call a few Opticials in your area and verify that the Optician you are working with is seasoned and licensed. Because of your profession, I would suggest taking this extra step so you can find someone who is able to answer all of your questions.

    Now, here is a little bit of advice I can give. Nothing raises the hackles of a good Optician like an engineer and a sardonic, "I'm smarter than you" approach will do nothing to sweeten the mood of the person trying to help you. I can promise you that an Optical license is not given away and that you may have to concede to the fact that the person you find might actually be more knowledgable than yourself when it comes to the science of Optics.

    I hope this puts a postive light on our reluctance to offer online support but the the "computer" (i.e. the human brain) we work with is an unfathomable mystery. I hope your needs are met and that you have a pleasant experience that leads to a long-term relationship with a great Optician!"

    There is no such thing as a "Progressive Grid". I work for a private OD and when I sit down with a patient regarding the fit of one of 490+ progressive designs that I have to choose from it's a customized fit. Typically the chain opticals can only fit what the corporate fat cats have told them they can fit. They don't have the choices that private opticans have or sometimes the experience that comes with working with several different designs. If you were my patient, I would have you narrowed down to about 5 different designs just by looking at your Rx. I can't even begin to recommend anything by name however because I don't have your full medical chart.

    I hope this clears up the confusion.

    Cheers.
    +1

    Besides why would you want to refer to a chain the slaves thier are never there the same time. Where at an OD it's 8 to 5 and you get the same person every time.

  10. #35
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    I think you and your doc are looking for answers to questions that are on islands of concrete surrounded by quicksand. You can't get to the island without first crossing the quicksand. An experienced ecp knows how to get you there or if you should even attempt to try.

    It can take years of experience to give definitive answers (even then almost always qualified) to subjective questions but two simple replies come to my mind-

    1) You get what you pay for.
    2) Ryser's Rule- The success of a progressive is proportional to the motivation of the patient to wear a progressive.

    Kind regards-
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 04-05-2012 at 04:23 PM. Reason: tweak...

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post
    I think you and your doc are looking for answers to questions that are on islands of concrete surrounded by quicksand. You can't get to the island without first crossing the quicksand. An experienced ecp knows how to get you there or if you should even attempt to try.

    It can take years of experience to give definitive answers (even then almost always qualified) to subjective questions but two simple replies come to my mind-

    1) You get what you pay for.
    2) Ryser's Rule- The success of a progressive is proportional to the motivation of the patient to wear a progressive.

    Kind regards-
    You can not argue with logic like that!! +! (love the island analogy too )

  12. #37
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    Unless the OD in question studies in detail the myriads of brands of excellent designs out there, there is no way for him/her to recommend a specific lens/brand. He should recommend the type, not the brand, if he has had the conversation about lifestyle & visual needs Better advice would be to develop a working relationship with local opticians, learn to trust their judgement of what is best for the individual patient & Rx. The doctor should gauge successful referrals by the quality of the glasses, quality of the fit, & patient satisfaction. These are easy to spot for the professional, then he can refine his referral list.
    WE SEE THINGS NOT AS THEY ARE, BUT AS WE ARE..... Anais Nin

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by OpticalNewbie View Post
    I'm trying to give advice to an OD who does exams and doesn't sell glasses.
    Many customers are cheap only because they don't know why they shouldn't be. Customers don't want to needlessly waste money. Private opticians apparently don't care enough about their own livelihood or about prospective patients to bother to learn anything about marketing. (which is partly why they aren't running chains themselves).

    Its sad that people can't grasp the concept of providing a coherent explanation as to why customers should be steered to a non-chain optician. Vague comments about "quality" won't convince a skeptical consumer who wants to understand why that quality is worth the price.

    If you are incapable of explaining it, thats fine, but unfortunate both for the business future of private opticians and for patients who would benefit if those opticians bothered to learn something about business.

    Its also sad that they don't grasp that even patients that are being "cheap" deserve the best vision for the money they can get when they go to a chain. Not everyone is rich.
    What is it you would have us private opticians learn about "marketing" anyhow? Just curious!

    I have a vast, well-rounded, contantly updated repertoire of product knowledge- the only "marketing" I ever have to do (at any of the places I have worked as an Optician) over the years is knowledge of my product, and the ability to explain the benefits of the product in ways that our patients can understand. Naturally, some people can afford more than others- and it is also my job to know what is best in various price ranges, in order to match the appropriate lens to the patient. I also feel very strongly that most people are never told WHY better lenses are more expensive- I regularly sell "higher end" products to patients because I am also able to convey the benefits of the specific lens I am recommending to the patient.

    In a lot of ways, being an Optician is like being a translator. You have to transform technical jargon into leyman's terms for those who do not understand. When you learn to do that, you can help people in any setting and at any income.

    As to not running my own chain- I choose to work for an independent OD. I choose NOT to open my own "chain". It does not reflect on my competence or level of skill as an Optician!

  14. #39
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    Darn it Jim I'm a doctor.....! Let the OMD/OD write the RX and let the Optician bring it to life. The OD is a big boy/girl I'm sure they are more than competent enough to research who is a good optician in their community. Nothing irritates me more than seeing a PAL type written on an RX; One, it makes it seem like it is PART of the RX, Two it's MY job to determine the best PAL.
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    Agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by scriptfiller View Post
    Darn it Jim I'm a doctor.....! Let the OMD/OD write the RX and let the Optician bring it to life. The OD is a big boy/girl I'm sure they are more than competent enough to research who is a good optician in their community. Nothing irritates me more than seeing a PAL type written on an RX; One, it makes it seem like it is PART of the RX, Two it's MY job to determine the best PAL.
    I agree completely, if you want a comparison, it's like an architect and an engineer, the architect designs the building, but the engineer makes it work by deciding the correct materials and procedures. The Doctor writes the Rx but the Optician is the one who guides the Patient in their purchase. For want of a better term, Eyeglasses are a blind purchase, meaning the typical consumer knows nothing about what he is going to buy but must rely on the Optician to make choices for them, and it is our training and experience that lets us do that, and puts us above the typical chain. There are over 700 different PAL designs and having worked in an Essilor partner lab and my wife having worked in a Hoya Lab, I have seen about 1/3 of those and am familiar with about 50-60 of them ( counting dead designs ) so I ask questions about how the Patient uses his glasses and what he has worn before and make my decisons from there,as I am sure most other of us do. for me to tell a Dr. "this" is the best lens for a patient, it takes a little effort and yes while we all have a "go to" lens we are most comfortable with, I don't think many Trained Opticians will put EVERY PAL wearer in the same lens.

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