Opticianry Summit?

[Barry Santini]

I enjoyed some of this and endured the rest. Let's see now, we better educate all future Opticians and who pays them more based on more education? Certainly not ANY eye doctor or retail chains or customers, you'll notice I didn't say patients. For the last 52, yes I said 52 years I have made a very good living doing what I do better than most and that is, selling and fitting eyeglasses to the public. I have changed how I market my wares at least 6 times and fined tuned it many more. I have opened 12 successful locations and employed many good Opticians. I was taught the basics and took it on myself to become the best I could be. I have observed many Opticians down through the years many good ones and some not so good.
My take on this is the same as it has always been. Until Opticians become INDEPENDENT retailers they will never attain the status or reach the economic levels they wish to attain. The trainig is only as good as the person getting it and let's face it some of them will never put forth the effort to become good. Here is the key to success, becoming an expert at Opticianary and it is more of a hands on job making and fitting eyeglasses, so train by doing it, drk has it right, next learn to MARKET, when opening a store DONOT feel you have to spend $100k on displays and EDGERS. Only STUPID people buy a $35k machine to edge a couple pair of lenses a day. People are looking for expert advice backed up by expert work and most of all a PRICE THEY CAN AFFORD. Take NO INSURANCE, I HAVE NEVER TAKEN A DIME OF INSURANCE and never will. Find a good location at a good price and drive a hard bargin with the landlord. I have joked many times that "I could open in a phone booth and make a good living". I may try it yet. I am afraid many of us spend too much time wishing we were something other than what we are, not what we should be, a skilled craftsman that fits and fabricates the most comfortable, attractive, accurate eyewear on God's green earth. Do this and you will succeed, I guarntee it.

Bill, my almost 40 years in cannot really argue with any of this. +1

B

[tx11]

Bill, I would love to hear your take on how to become independant and get Rxs. I think many opticians would enjoy that situation.

[Java99]

Bill, I would love to hear your take on how to become independant and get Rxs. I think many opticians would enjoy that situation.

Borrow your tail off and market that same tail off.

I too would love to hear Bill's take.

[MakeOptics]

Again you're not an optician unless you're independent. That is a good starting point for t the definition of an optician. Now where are the courses on starting an optical or writing a business plan. Once a crop of new "opticians" exist then they have to differentiate themselves now you get the demand for education.

[Optician1960]

PT
Disagree on your statement that a person cannot be an optician unless they are independent, would you say the same for an OD or MD? . Some of the best of the best are independent, some work for independent opticians or Drs and others work for chains (been there, seen them, worked with them). My belief is that the best of the best are probably "inter-dependent" and rely on others or have others rely on them at times. Good point though on the courses to help students learn about becoming a business person before they try to go all in and have to learn the hard/expensive way. The same can be said for the Optometry Schools, in general.

[gmc]

Again you're not an optician unless you're independent. That is a good starting point for t the definition of an optician. Now where are the courses on starting an optical or writing a business plan. Once a crop of new "opticians" exist then they have to differentiate themselves now you get the demand for education.

And all these years I thought I was an optician. I guess I'll have to start calling myself something else. I'll call the state of Florida and tell them they'll have to change what it says on my license.

[sharpstick777]

I am not saying that higher ed has no place in dispensing or whatever "opticianry" is as a whole today. However, to keep pushing a currently non-existent, non-standardized, non-competency driven, non peer-reviewed national educational agenda doesn't make sense. Yet. If opticianry can come to some consensus about what minimum competencies should realistically be and define it clearly and simply, then I believe this whole current pseudo movement might just gain some sort of traction nationally.

I agree, any education can be effective only be part of a test or peer review (preferabley both) that is more thorough than the ABO is now. Law Students get their JD degree, but they still have to take the Bar exam for example.

I know an Optician locally with a PHd (chemical engineering) and she can't tie her own laces. So I am right with you there.

[sharpstick777]

(Provoking the ire of Wes)
I'm still in the "barefoot and pregnant" camp.

Here's what I learned from watching a video about medieval guilds (how's that for looking towards the future?): they enforced their own standards in everything from wages, prices, tools, how to conduct business, etc. They self-policed, they self-ruled.

This is no different from you guys trying to unify opticianry under some organization, and getting governmental assistance in laying down the laws.
My "barefoot and pregnant" way...you don't have to be Don Quixotes waiting for non-opticians to go along with your agenda...you can start tomorrow.

The Electricians do this here locally. The provide their own training through the union that is actually and excellent mix of class room time and very structured apprenticeship. Apprentices have to pass both a writen exam and demonstrate hands on compentancy before they have to move to the next level. You must join the Union though, but once you go through the program you are gold and your entire education is either free or essentially reimbursed (you make it up in dues though).

Although Dr K I would have agreed with you whole heartily 5 years ago the market is changing so fast that structured Apprenticeships and purely technical educations are becoming dinosaurs in the market. The focused 3 year technical degrees that are popular in Germany and Scandivia have no respect here the US, but they would be perfect if they did.

I personally favor your approach but by the time it finally got traction it would suffer from both obsolensence and lack of respect. It would also limit lateral career changes across sectors of the industry like outside sales.

[sharpstick777]

Again you're not an optician unless you're independent.

I would kindly disagree, although being independant is a great lesson, I think managing a multi doctor ($2 million a year plus) clinic could be even more valuable. Have you ever tried to get 6 MD's/OD's to agree on anything? That my friend is the greatest challenge any human can face on this planet.

[sharpstick777]

Perhaps a 12 month certificate program similar for that of pharm techs. Upon completion it could be transferred and applied toward an AA that would incorporate some of the entrepenural business sense that Bill West spoke of.

+2 (inflation)

[sharpstick777]

here's an interesting observation ... my pharmacist has never tried to upsell me into the more expensive branded drug when the generic will save me money and get the job done.. Hmmm professionalism .. looking out for the patients best interest...what a concept!

The issue is purely economic, his salary is not tied to any production. In Optical with exam reibursements so low (some are only $35, most $75) there is a huge income gap. Say I can generate $150 an hour with exams alone. But when you start adding up the costs of clinic, rent, salaries, lights, practice management software, CE's in NYC or Las Vegas, Insurances of various kinds, equipment, inventory, carpet, school loans, displays, chairs and paint I have to generate about $250-$300 an hour just to pay the bills.

Its that gap that requires we sell. The only way to fix that is higher exam reimbursments from insurance companies. Good luck with that.

[tx11]

ALSO a pharmacist is paid for their knowlege and certificationa nd liscense. W/o these you can't be a pharmacist.

[wmcdonald]

ALSO a pharmacist is paid for their knowlege and certificationa nd liscense. W/o these you can't be a pharmacist.

Imagine that.......being paid for your knowledge. That is my goal for Opticians.

[Uilleann]

Imagine that.......being paid for your knowledge. That is my goal for Opticians.

Except that, as was pointed out above, "his [the pharmacist's] salary is not tied to any production". Opticianry is fundamentally different. And having knowledge can also be fundamentally different than having this or that degree framed on the wall. Neither situation places the American optician today in a position to demand, and this next bit is particularly important, actually get more money simply for random educational credentials alone.

[tx11]

Except that, as was pointed out above, "his [the pharmacist's] salary is not tied to any production". Opticianry is fundamentally different. And having knowledge can also be fundamentally different than having this or that degree framed on the wall. Neither situation places the American optician today in a position to demand, and this next bit is particularly important, actually get more money simply for random educational credentials alone.

ONLY a mandatory liscense or certification. If anyone can dispense ...anyone will be hired to.

[MakeOptics]

PT
Disagree on your statement that a person cannot be an optician unless they are independent, would you say the same for an OD or MD? . Some of the best of the best are independent, some work for independent opticians or Drs and others work for chains (been there, seen them, worked with them). My belief is that the best of the best are probably "inter-dependent" and rely on others or have others rely on them at times. Good point though on the courses to help students learn about becoming a business person before they try to go all in and have to learn the hard/expensive way. The same can be said for the Optometry Schools, in general.

Their professions have a uniform definition.

And all these years I thought I was an optician. I guess I'll have to start calling myself something else. I'll call the state of Florida and tell them they'll have to change what it says on my license.

So your an optician, so is the guy that worked the counter at burger king yesterday. It's not the title that should make anyone proud be proud of the type of optician you are if you call yourself that.

I would kindly disagree, although being independant is a great lesson, I think managing a multi doctor ($2 million a year plus) clinic could be even more valuable. Have you ever tried to get 6 MD's/OD's to agree on anything? That my friend is the greatest challenge any human can face on this planet.

That sounds challenging enough but I would call you a practice administrator.

Opticians are an autonomous professional, if your selling what someone else is telling you to sell then I wouldn't call you and optician. I personally have been an optician and currently am not one. I sell what the lab the doctor I work for has available. I don't provide wehat a patient needs I provide the best I have access too. I know this holds true for the chains and many other scnearios.

[tmorse]

Perhaps a 12 month certificate program similar for that of pharm techs. Upon completion it could be transferred and applied toward an AA that would incorporate some of the entrepenural business sense that Bill West spoke of.

Already has been available for many years... there's a 7-month private College opticianry program in California, a 9-month private College program in Colorado, and a 6-month private College opticianry program in CANADA.

[sharpstick777]

Neither situation places the American optician today in a position to demand, and this next bit is particularly important, actually get more money simply for random educational credentials alone.

The greatest value an educated Optician will have is to move laterally through the industry. For most of the last 10 years high paying sales reps jobs have been going to mostly college grads with no optical background. Some of the positions pay $120K + a year after a few years. Not only is that door closed to most Optician now, these are the people that will be executives in 10-15 years throughout the industry.

As well many high paid multi-doctor clinical managers are less Opticians and more billing accounting people... because they have the education.

When these doors open to Opticians, the pay and respect of every other optician will rise. So although the clinical pay may not necessarily have an immediate and tangible impact, over time the market will shift and as Opticians have more job options pay will go up inherently.

Opticians can't close the door on high paying positions and expect their stock to rise. When these doors open to Opticians, the opportunities of every optician will slowly rise along with it.

[gmc]

So your an optician, so is the guy that worked the counter at burger king yesterday. It's not the title that should make anyone proud be proud of the type of optician you are if you call yourself that.

Yes, I'm an optician. And a damned good one. There are opticians on Optiboard that are smarter than me and that have greater skill than I do. I'm not arrogant enough to claim or imply that I'm the very best while hiding behind an anonymous username.

[tx11]

Perhaps we could have levels of scope of practice (ie Medical asst.-LVN-RN-Nurse practioner). Entry level could be Frame stylist only allowing the stylist to help with the selection of frames. There are aspects of frame styling that could be learned and tested on (fashion excluded). A frame stylist would not be able to take pd's,consult on lens options or dispense eyewear. The next level could be certified optician which could do all of that . This would change the definition of optician by officially creating a non-optician title.

[MakeOptics]

Yes, I'm an optician. And a damned good one. There are opticians on Optiboard that are smarter than me and that have greater skill than I do. I'm not arrogant enough to claim or imply that I'm the very best while hiding behind an anonymous username.

So if I wasn't anonymous I might be the best, I doubt that opticians are judged based on the depth of who the person is. Because I have confidence in my work, I must be arrogant. That seems to be the running theme for the opinions on me, would it be Ok for me to serve a back handed insult as well? Maybe it's your lack of confidence that should be addressed, maybe when your talking about your skills or knowledge you can refrain from cursing yourself?

[MakeOptics]

Perhaps we could have levels of scope of practice (ie Medical asst.-LVN-RN-Nurse practioner). Entry level could be Frame stylist only allowing the stylist to help with the selection of frames. There are aspects of frame styling that could be learned and tested on (fashion excluded). A frame stylist would not be able to take pd's,consult on lens options or dispense eyewear. The next level could be certified optician which could do all of that . This would change the definition of optician by officially creating a non-optician title.

Seriously, optician and non optician is seperated by taking a PD? So the use of a simple ruler is what makes you uniquely an optician. Yeah and I'm the one that insulting opticians.

[Johns]

A frame stylist would not be able to take pd's,consult on lens options or dispense eyewear. The next level could be certified optician which could do all of that . This would change the definition of optician by officially creating a non-optician title.

Great idea! That way, only real opticians and consumers, and smart phones would be able to take PDs! (Really??)

[tx11]

Seriously, optician and non optician is seperated by taking a PD? So the use of a simple ruler is what makes you uniquely an optician. Yeah and I'm the one that insulting opticians.

PD's and consult on lenses and dispense eyewear....all three

[Judy Canty]

The greatest value an educated Optician will have is to move laterally through the industry. For most of the last 10 years high paying sales reps jobs have been going to mostly college grads with no optical background. Some of the positions pay $120K + a year after a few years. Not only is that door closed to most Optician now, these are the people that will be executives in 10-15 years throughout the industry.

As well many high paid multi-doctor clinical managers are less Opticians and more billing accounting people... because they have the education.

When these doors open to Opticians, the pay and respect of every other optician will rise. So although the clinical pay may not necessarily have an immediate and tangible impact, over time the market will shift and as Opticians have more job options pay will go up inherently.

Opticians can't close the door on high paying positions and expect their stock to rise. When these doors open to Opticians, the opportunities of every optician will slowly rise along with it.

Agree.