"Always laugh when you can. It is a cheap medicine"
Lord Byron
Take a photo tour of Cape Cod and the Islands!
www.capecodphotoalbum.com
Pride goes before the fall.
"Old timers " discount "Young Guns" at your peril.
Nearly every major scientific advance is made by the young. We think of Einstein as an old man, but he was young when he made his notable contributions. This is the norm, not the exception.
Go read phitrace's posts over the last few months and you will see this person is sharp as a tack, if a bit hotheaded. That's passion coming through. I don't see many posters answering the questions like this guy does.
Wesley S. Scott, MBA, MIS, ABOM, NCLE-AC, LDO - SC & GA
“As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it.” -Albert Einstein
Geez, I just realized I mispelled "knew" in that post. Maybe I am getting old.
gmc................Thank you. Even us oldies learned from the then older ones, and the ones that were fortunate like me, went from an apprentiship in Europe, to an optical school for a 3 year fulltime course.
Furthermore I would like to add that without the technology with computer assistance of today, formulas had to be calculated by hand, using a sliderule if you knew that technology, besides adding machine there were no calculators. You had to grind glass lenses to perfect shape by hand. Frames were of better quality right into the 1980s and also did cost more at source than today.
Opticians in the UK did not use lensometers, contrary to the ones in Europe, until the 1960s and you had to neutralize lens powers with trial lenses, which got a little harder when a cylinder was involved. However I can still do it today, can you?
We actually managed to make perfect jobs with those you would call primitive tools and machinery, because we had to learn und understand the how and the why, and develop the use of our hands and fingers.
In todays world one can be a specialist by being good at understanding the elctronics of a machine that does the work but will never know the why......................it is that way, because it is all based on how it was then.
I would put my hard skills up against yours any day, you pick the events. I may not beat you in everything but I'll probably beat you in most since I am a current practicing optician. I know how to solder and sink hidden hinges and create a pair of glasses from a semi finished blank. I can if needed create a frame from raw materials, I can facet, polish by hand, set stones. All the things that a button can do I can do in analog, but I am much more proficient in a digital environment where I can do all these things and still interact with the people that visit the shop. The new age has provided more than it has taken away, and I don't think anyone can do by hand what my santinelli has the capabilities to accomplish and they would be an arrogant fool to suggest they could.
I don't understand your point, glass is a thing of the past for the most part so hand grinding glass is an exercise in futility unless you work in a specialty lab or glass lab where the skill is being taught and perfected today just as it was 30+ years ago. As far as hand calculating that's fine I wouldn't mind hand calculating my jobs, I have the skills, but I also have the programs. If the programs didn't exist I have the programming abilities to write the programs.Furthermore I would like to add that without the technology with computer assistance of today, formulas had to be calculated by hand, using a sliderule if you knew that technology, besides adding machine there were no calculators. You had to grind glass lenses to perfect shape by hand. Frames were of better quality right into the 1980s and also did cost more at source than today.
I can, but the 60's is 50+ years ago, if you were a teenager back then you would be pushing 70 to 80 years old. Even though you may have better skills your hand eye coordination, arthritis, and other various ailments would hold you back in other ways. Plus not to mention the wheel was invented some thousands of years ago from stone but you don't see me chiseling a rock to put on my car to get to work. I poses the ability to use the current technology just as the many old timers had the skills to use the technology of old.Opticians in the UK did not use lensometers, contrary to the ones in Europe, until the 1960s and you had to neutralize lens powers with trial lenses, which got a little harder when a cylinder was involved. However I can still do it today, can you?
Once again let me point out that the industry in it's current shape does not allow me to spend the number of hours to perfect every single job with primitive tools. Most are a button press in the machine with the exceptions being pulled to the side and worked on here and there to achieve a level of perfection that you are hinting at. The industry has changed, either you change it back to what it was and hold me to those standards or you get with it and be held to the standards of current practice.We actually managed to make perfect jobs with those you would call primitive tools and machinery, because we had to learn und understand the how and the why, and develop the use of our hands and fingers.
I understand the equipment from the power supply to the resistors, to the mosfets that control the equipment. I am currently taking a electronics engineering certificate course at MIT so your example is interestingly enough right up my alley.In todays world one can be a specialist by being good at understanding the elctronics of a machine that does the work but will never know the why......................it is that way, because it is all based on how it was then.
Yes the current optician has many different places he can specialize. The term optician has been broadened to include the guy that comes in every so often to repair the machine to the guy that just started yesterday straight out of high school. What difference does that make, if you were to compare the best of the old timers to the worst of the young bucks, like is often the case; then of course the old timers rule but put the best and brightest of today against the best and brightest of yesteryear and now the comparison is more true.
Originally Posted by gmc
I am still fairly young, I don't know everything but I know enough to defend myself. I am assuming that your title on your business card or accomplishments on your resume reads "Old Timer". It is a derogatory term used to discount the young in the work force, by the older less productive work force. I am sure my generalizations are just as unappreciated as the generalizations that have offended me. If you look beyond "time in" and look at relevant skills used in practice who amoung those posting in this thread would you envision as successful? I can tell you this even though the fellow Chris says he can hand neutralize a pair if a patient of mine saw him doing that compared to me reading it in the digital vertometer who do you think is going to lose trust? I'll tell you this much the time disparity between me and Chris checking an Rx could be filled with talks of second pairs for sunglasses, office use, sports eyewear, and or industrial use.
PhiTrace, you clearly are very knowledgeable, and may even be able to do many technical things well, both old and new. But there is nothing wrong with respecting the processes that brought us to where we are today, and the people who helped along the way. It is frustrating to deal with people who refuse to have an open mind and embrace new things, but having the grace to respect the wisdom of those who have been there isn't a bad thing either.
Probably the best post in this thread, My weakness has always been that I have no grace, after all I refer to myself as an optical *****. I like your proposition I will respect the older generation for their knowledge and they will respect the younger generation for our grasp of current technology.
I think us youngsters do enough patting ourselves on the back. That being said, I personally haven't ever come across an old timer who doesn't embrace the future. But I for the most part have worked with women middle aged and younger. I can imagine how annoying it would be working with someone who doesn't respect me or my ideas because I like them new fangled progressive lenses. I'm lucky because for the most part, no matter where I've worked, I've been one of the most, if not the most, well educated and knowledgeable optician.
This doesn't need to be optical gladiator. Why do we beat each other up so much? There's room for the noobs and the old farts alike. But I do think we should respect each other.
Maybe we should all follow Darryl Meister's example. He has few if any peers on this board when it comes to knowledge of ophthalmic optics. Surely he knows it. Yet when he is engaged in a discussion, even with someone who clearly doesn't know what they are are talking about, he shows no arrogance or condescension even when the other party is making a fool of themselves.
It's more fun for me personally to make a fool of myself. The only reason for my reaction is I am currently dealing with a scenario of an old timer that is just non productive who is piling the work on me, meanwhile every time she touches a job it gets screwed up. Then I hear endless stories of how she would work with glass and blah blah. It's a touchy subject, and I see it posted here often with no rebuttal, I thought maybe this would be a good place to express my true opinions. If I am not mistaken Mr Meister is a young buck, I would say he is a great person to look up to with a vast array of knowledge in this industry.
My problem really exists with the "time in" principal that many like to hold onto. If you have been practicing for 10 years and I have only been practicing for 5 years, I can never surpass you unless you get out of the field, that scenario exists in many practices. I would suggest that it's what you do with your time that counts not just the passing of it.
You are fortunate indeed. We just tried to hire a LDO for a new practice and of the LDO 12 applicants, only two have ever dispensed a Free-form lens, 4 didn't have any email address at all, 6 had never used any Practice Management software and 4 showed up to their interviews in contact lenses, not glasses (one came in a FT-28 with no AR). It took months to find an LDO with Free-form cred who wasn't afraid of a computer.
No, we got it.
I was a young gun also, not a braggart per se, but I felt that I knew it all, and it showed. And you know what? Older, more seasoned folks don't like that attitude- they don't like it because they went through that stage themselves, and they know it doesn't make you a better doctor or a better optician, that those technical skills, combined with wisdom, good judgement, and listening skills is what makes a first-rate optician. Much to my dismay, it was an old-timer who set me on the right path, who knocked me down a notch, so that I would have a chance to help people see better. My advice is to sit back and enjoy the learning experience, and put yourself in a position where you can do the most good.
Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. - Richard P. Feynman
Experience is the hardest teacher. She gives the test before the lesson.
Oh I skipped reading a bunch of posts....but some of us young uns miss the old days as well. I learned to neutralize on a reg lensometer. I learned how to look up frame parts in FF. The first edger I ever used was an OLD patterned edger, I have drilled by hand and soldered. I only sell nut and bolt rimless, I am oldschool and do not want to fix those plastic gromets. My old lab manager would make me do the math instead of looking on the BC chart...******* :) (I swear the word was not that bad...just a fatherless child)
I explain to people who think our service is above and beyond that at the chain stores they only have to have one licensed person on staff, the other people could be brand new making min wage. Also at the chains they pick the product that works for their bottom line....I pick the product that works best for them. Like picking a PAL I tell the patient there are 100's of lenses on the market...I have narrowed it down to three I feel will work the best...now you pick.
I have always worked for private practices...since I was 9 in the summers for my grandpop. I think that has kept me loving this field. Now I dream of opening my own eyeglass shop in Bisbee one day, just selling glasses and making repairs for the stinky hippies.
And the number one thing that pisses me off (and my older patients) I CAN NOT FIND REPLACEMENT PARTS ANYMORE. Nope after a year it is done. I had this problem with a sink repair the otherday. My kitchen was remodled 3 years ago...and they stoped making replacement parts for my pfiser sink. Now I know how my patients feel. Sigh.
A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than you love yourself.
~Josh Billings~
Biggest difference is opticians today are employees, of the past were owners.
There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 2 guests)
Bookmarks