How to hard-coating CR39 lenses with good yield?!?!?

[Marco.Coppa]

Hi,
I'm Marco Coppa from Italy.
I'm R&D Manager for Sunlens Manufaturing at LUXOTTICA Group.
I'm now encountering a lot of problems to hard-coat CR39 plano lenses: if we use same claening process we have for polycarbonatre, it doesn't work and the final hard-coating process yield is really poor.
We can't remove the samll flakes and particales we find on the lenses after demoulding.
Could you please help me?

Tks,

Marco.

[sharpstick777]

Welcome to Optiboard Marco!

Sounds like a clean room issue to me. It sounds like the molds are getting dusty/contaminated between batches.

Is your air pressure still positive? Filters clean? Clogged or dirty filters can lower pressure enough to let contaminants in. Seals tight? Was there construction work recently in the room? Construction workers often won't clean up well.

If you leave a piece of packing tape out over night with the sticky side up, you may be able to see if its air contamination by looking at the tape with a magnifier. If the air is dirty and you can't locate the issue may need a consulting engineer to trouble shoot the issue. If the air is not dirty, you have an issue in your process.

Is it worse in the morning (after everything sat longer). Are the particles consistant or random? If they are random, its probably dust from outside. If the particles all look alike, you may have internal contamination from a single source.

Are all the procedures being followed?

Hope you track it down

[Nikolay Angelov]

I'm R&D Manager for Sunlens Manufaturing at LUXOTTICA Group.

Could you please help me?

HaHaHaa nice one TROLL.

sharpstick777, do you believe that a Research and Development Manager in Manufacturing of the largest sunlens manufacturing company would ask his questions to random opticians at optiboard!? And not just a production manager but a Research and Development Manager...

Instead of ringing the 24 hours 365days support that you have when buying production machines at that scale.

And Being a manager in Research and Development isn't he supposed to have a team of experts in organic chemistry, clean rooms and all the required fields.
and have R&D labs equipped with enough equipment and funds to solve unique manufacturing problems (their main job).

Even if the internal labs and experts couldn't solve a problem what would he do?

Maybe call the hard coating process engineers? Call the cleaning process engineers and equipment suppliers? Call the equipment manufacturers? Call the chemicals/varnish manufacturers?
Maybe fly them all in to the plant so they can troubleshoot?

How about calling PPG? Or Acomon and SDC Technologies (Mitsui)?

I understand that we all like our egos flattered ... but really?

[Johns]

HaHaHaa nice one TROLL.

sharpstick777, do you believe that a Research and Development Manager in Manufacturing of the largest sunlens manufacturing company would ask his questions to random opticians at optiboard!?

Nicolay! You must read more carefully! Look at the original post....he never, ever, said "manufacturing".

Read it again...

[sharpstick777]

HaHaHaa nice one TROLL.

sharpstick777, do you believe that a Research and Development Manager in Manufacturing of the largest sunlens manufacturing company would ask his questions to random opticians at optiboard!? And not just a production manager but a Research and Development Manager...

Instead of ringing the 24 hours 365days support that you have when buying production machines at that scale.

And Being a manager in Research and Development isn't he supposed to have a team of experts in organic chemistry, clean rooms and all the required fields.
and have R&D labs equipped with enough equipment and funds to solve unique manufacturing problems (their main job).

Even if the internal labs and experts couldn't solve a problem what would he do?

Maybe call the hard coating process engineers? Call the cleaning process engineers and equipment suppliers? Call the equipment manufacturers? Call the chemicals/varnish manufacturers?
Maybe fly them all in to the plant so they can troubleshoot?

How about calling PPG? Or Acomon and SDC Technologies (Mitsui)?
I understand that we all like our egos flattered ... but really?

I have been in positions WAYYY over my head, and needed help. I once found myself managing a 500K sq ft furniture plant, with no experience what-so-ever in furniture making.

You may be right, but I will give him the beneit of the doubt... for now.

[Nikolay Angelov]

Nicolay! You must read more carefully! Look at the original post....he never, ever, said "manufacturing".

Read it again...

He did say it. Here it's highlighted in the quote:

I'm R&D Manager for Sunlens Manufaturing at LUXOTTICA Group.

Wikipedia:

Luxottica Group S.p.A. is the world's largest eyewear company.

sharpstick777, you are too kind. We talk about a supposed manager in manufacturing R&D of a company with revenue of above 7 000 000 000 USD and assets above 10 000 000 000 USD (wikipedia, as of 2010 and yes that's billions). Troubleshooting just works differently at that level.

It's routine practice to fly in experts for serious problems.

Just imagine the support contracts for equipment and all at that scales of manufacturing. I doubt there is a clause that says ... "if you have a problem you're on your own ... sucks to be you"

Also imagine the internal know how of a manufacturing company at that scale.

[Chris Ryser]

Hi,
I'm Marco Coppa from Italy.
I'm R&D Manager for Sunlens Manufaturing at LUXOTTICA Group.
I'm now encountering a lot of problems to hard-coat CR39 plano lenses: if we use same claening process we have for polycarbonatre, it doesn't work and the final hard-coating process yield is really poor.
We can't remove the samll flakes and particales we find on the lenses after demoulding.
Could you please help me?

Tks,

Marco.

I have been involved with hard coatings since the early 1980s. We found out back the that with Ct39 lenses a simple clean with alcohol was the easiest and best way to go. Following that we applied a primer let it dry and then the resin application went nice.
Maybe you have to change the resin.

[Nikolay Angelov]

Serious manufacturers do not "clean with alcohol".
There are multi step complex cleaning processes depending on what you want to clean.
I expected somebody dealing in opto chemicals to know the current manufacturing processes better.

Here are some actual links to equipment manufacturers from the (industrial) ophthalmic lens cleaning:
http://www.elma-ultrasonic.com/
http://www.fisa.com/
http://www.guyson.co.uk/
http://optimal-technologies.com/
http://satisloh.com
http://scl-intl.com
http://teamhk.de/
...

But Marco.Coppa is most definitely NOT who he is claiming to be.

[Marco.Coppa]

I have been involved with hard coatings since the early 1980s. We found out back the that with Ct39 lenses a simple clean with alcohol was the easiest and best way to go. Following that we applied a primer let it dry and then the resin application went nice.
Maybe you have to change the resin.

Many thanks, Chris...

[Marco.Coppa]

Your comments are not so kind.
I'm the one I wrote to be...and sometimes the largest eyewear company in the world finds good help on high professional and skilled Forum like OptiBoard is.
Obviouslly we're working to solve this issue together with our Suppliers, but sometimes new ideas come from diiferent parts.

Regards,

[Marco.Coppa]

Thanks.

[Johns]

He did say it. Here it's highlighted in the quote:

The quote said "manufaturing"

[sharpstick777]

sharpstick777, you are too kind. We talk about a supposed manager in manufacturing R&D of a company with revenue of above 7 000 000 000 USD and assets above 10 000 000 000 USD (wikipedia, as of 2010 and yes that's billions). Troubleshooting just works differently at that level.

It's routine practice to fly in experts for serious problems.

Just imagine the support contracts for equipment and all at that scales of manufacturing. I doubt there is a clause that says ... "if you have a problem you're on your own ... sucks to be you"
Also imagine the internal know how of a manufacturing company at that scale.

Having worked for the Big Lux, its not an enviroment where people are encouraged to seek help from the inside, its seen as weakness. One of the reasons the Lux often struggles is that its very competitive, they pit managers against each other. I can totally see why he sought more information... and sought that from outside his management stream. I have done the same thing myself.

So your right, the Big Lux should have team of people at the ready to tackle any problem... but they punish you when you call.

I don't know if Marco is telling the truth, but he offered a question, I can't see he has any benefit from deceiving us. He made no wild claims that would inflame the stock market. Until we know more, should we jump on someone's first post? Ouch I say. Ouch.

[Francois Chemoptic]

Ciao Marco,

Yes I can testify that you are what you wrote. You know my previous experience (SDC, NGL, FISA), so I know this process from all possible ends and this is an issue I had to fix when I started with FISA in 2003 for the company VOS. Besides, PC and CR have very different behaviours when it comes to hard coating adhesion. Using similar cleaning for CR as for PC would result in poor adhesion. Please give me a call on SkyPe.

[essegn]

So your right, the Big Lux should have team of people at the ready to tackle any problem... but they punish you when you call.

I don't know if Marco is telling the truth, but he offered a question, I can't see he has any benefit from deceiving us. He made no wild claims that would inflame the stock market. Until we know more, should we jump on someone's first post? Ouch I say. Ouch.

+1 for PRO approach, you are the perfect example why people visit this forum

[Furotto]

Too late... I know...but Marco is the one he said to be...