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Thread: Strange but True: You can easily remove most scratches from 1.60 and 1.66 product

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by optical24/7 View Post
    Ok, I'm an experiment junkie. I just conducted this with a 1.60 w/src only (no ar) stock lens I had. I used 1500 grit sandpaper to lightly scratch the front surface. ( it looked like very fine cleaning scratches.)

    Still just as scratched afterwards as before the treatment described above. Common sense told me that the SRC was what scratched, not the material. If you could repair an SRC like this, it would work on any (or most ) SRC's.

    So, not strange nor true.
    Myth busted!!!

  2. #27
    Manuf. Lens Surface Treatments OptiBoard Gold Supporter
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    Redhot Jumper No chemical change......................

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave E View Post

    so when removing ar from a lens we are to check to see if a lens is still impact resistance that is if I under stand this right

    Why don't you check your new fresh from the coating lab received lenses for impact resistance............that is where the major change to the material would have been made. Chemical wash cycle, heat to cure the hard coat and then the vacuum chamber for a double coating when a hydrophobic is added.

    Removing an AR coating is purely a surface treatment, and nothing penetrates into the lens material, not even as much as tinting a lens. Furthermore there are also neutralizers available to get rid of any acid leftovers.
    Last edited by Chris Ryser; 01-21-2012 at 07:35 PM.
    Chris Ryser
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  3. #28
    Ophthalmic Optician Wes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RT View Post
    For US labs/ECP's, Q20 of the 2010 FDA Q&A on impact resistance defines who needs to perform impact testing. Stripping coatings would most likely qualify as altering "the physical or chemical characteristics of the lens..." For example, if a lens had been rendered impact resistant by the application of a cushion coat which is then subsequently stripped away, the lens may not be impact resistant any longer. As such, anybody stripping or performing some of the other actions in this thread may need to consider testing for impact resistance.

    http://www.fda.gov/medicaldevices/de.../ucm070579.htm
    20Q. Who should perform the test for impact resistance?
    A. The manufacturer must perform the test for impact resistance (21 CFR 801.410(d)(1)). Manufacturer is defined under 21 CFR 820.3(o) and would include the person (or firm) who puts the lens in the form ready for its intended use or who alters the physical or chemical characteristics of the lens by grinding, heat treating, beveling, applying scratch resistant coating, applying anti-reflection coating, cutting, or other pertinent actions.
    Aside from glass, (which you shouldnt try to strip since the stripper dissolves glass) most other lenses will be more impact resistant upon removal of AR, faulty or not.
    Wesley S. Scott, MBA, ABOM, NCLE-AC

    Ask the average American if ignorance and apathy are a problem in America, and the reply will be "I don't know, and I don't care." - me

  4. #29
    OptiBoard Professional OptiBoard Silver Supporter RT's Avatar
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    Aside from glass, most other lenses will be more impact resistant upon removal of AR, faulty or not.
    The key word there is MOST. For example, some labs are able to surface 1.60 or 1.67 index materials to 1.0mm center thickness, by applying a cushion coat. Otherwise, those materials typically require 1.5mm center thickness to pass dropball. Strip a 1.0mm CT lens, and you may have rendered it weaker. Unless you have explicitly tested, you really don't know.

    Note that the US FDA Q&A uses the word "must" with regard to who must test. Not "should", nor does it suggest an exemption for "most" lenses. You can interpret your own potential liability in the rare instance of a product liability case. Generally speaking, the last person to do something to the surface of the lens may be considered the manufacturer per the FDA Q&A. Certainly if you apply a coating, you are considered the manufacturer. It is less clear that removing a coating might also make you the manufacturer. As far as boiling a lens to repair a scratch per the original post...I wouldn't even care to speculate.
    RT

  5. #30
    Cape Codger OptiBoard Gold Supporter hcjilson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave E View Post
    so when removing ar from a lens we are to check to see if a lens is still impact resistance that is if I under stand this right
    With all due respect Dave, what does this have to do with the original question you posted at the top of the thread? Obviously the original premise is flawed! Why waste our time?
    Last edited by hcjilson; 01-21-2012 at 05:26 PM. Reason: addendumb
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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    Why don't you check your new fresh from the coating lab received lenses for impact resistance............that is where the major chance to the material would have been made. Chemical wash cycle, heat to cure the hard coat and then the vacuum chamber for a double coating when a hydrophobic is added.

    Removing an AR coating is purely a surface treatment, and nothing penetrates into the lens material, not even as much as tinting a lens. Furthermore there are also neutralizers available to get rid of any acid leftovers.
    Thanks that answers my ?

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by hcjilson View Post
    With all due respect Dave, what does this have to do with the original question you posted at the top of the thread? Obviously the original premise is flawed! Why waste our time?
    I am not trying to waist anyones time I found my first post on Laramy-k Optical web sight and justed wanted to no if anyone had done that and if it works . So I am sorry if I waisted anyones time .

  8. #33
    Manuf. Lens Surface Treatments OptiBoard Gold Supporter
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    No need to apologize, you initiated a good debate. I always enjoy when people show thab they are greedy and just want to push for new sales when they are not needed,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,why are the on-liners florishing ? That is one reason why. Not help the consumer who is in a bad spot. sell sell sell sell...........................and then complain that the onliners are getting ahead.
    Chris Ryser
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    http://optochemicals.com............................. http://arcoatings.com

  9. #34
    Cape Codger OptiBoard Gold Supporter hcjilson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave E View Post
    I am not trying to waist anyones time I found my first post on Laramy-k Optical web sight and justed wanted to no if anyone had done that and if it works . So I am sorry if I waisted anyones time .
    So sorry, I thought this thread was about getting rid of scratches, not whether or not a lens looses it's impact resistance if you strip it of ar. I guess I should learn to read a little closer.I am retired, I have plenty of time!
    "Always laugh when you can. It is a cheap medicine"
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  10. #35
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    Harry you should know that tese threads always take a turn to some thing else than when they originate. I am tired now and go and watch TV and fall asleep so I can be back early to bug you all.
    Chris Ryser
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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by optical24/7 View Post
    Ok, I'm an experiment junkie. I just conducted this with a 1.60 w/src only (no ar) stock lens I had. I used 1500 grit sandpaper to lightly scratch the front surface. ( it looked like very fine cleaning scratches.)

    Still just as scratched afterwards as before the treatment described above. Common sense told me that the SRC was what scratched, not the material. If you could repair an SRC like this, it would work on any (or most ) SRC's.

    So, not strange nor true.
    How about soaking overnight in Greased Lightning and then microwave .Have you tried this?

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by OpticLabRat View Post
    You can also cover the scratches with a China Marker, and then wipe clean. The scratches will temporarily disappear. "Not that Ive ever done that" to get something past the final rejector...I mean inspector :)
    What color China Marker?

  13. #38
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    Redhot Jumper If you could repair an SRC like this......................................

    Quote Originally Posted by optical24/7 View Post

    Ok, I'm an experiment junkie. I just conducted this with a 1.60 w/src only (no ar) stock lens I had. I used 1500 grit sandpaper to lightly scratch the front surface. ( it looked like very fine cleaning scratches.)

    Still just as scratched afterwards as before the treatment described above. Common sense told me that the SRC was what scratched, not the material.
    If you could repair an SRC like this, it would work on any (or most ) SRC's.

    .........................actually you can, there is a polymer available that is based on humidity cure, just apply on clean surface and hold over steam to start curing, that will totally hide these fine scratches. It will not hide deep ones.
    Chris Ryser
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    DLO. NA.IC.I.T.PO

    http://optochemicals.com............................. http://arcoatings.com

  14. #39
    Leo Hadley Jr. OptiBoard Gold Supporter OpticLabRat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bill8234 View Post
    What color China Marker?
    Doesn't matter, the color will wipe away leaving the clear wax behind.
    "Not that I endorse this technique"

    Leo Hadley Jr.
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  15. #40
    Ophthalmic Optician Wes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes View Post
    Sometimes these "myths" have some basis in fact, but get garbled along the way...

    Ok here goes. I have observed this firsthand on many ocassions. We sometimes have a situation where a glass bead will find its way between the chuck or leap pad and the front or back of the lens, and it makes a small "divot". Sloppy? Yes, but we're production, with far more emphasis on speed than cost, so it happens.

    On uncoated CR-39, and the uncoated backside of 1.56 and 1.60 (yes I know it should be coated, I don't get to make that decision), if the divot is not very large, a fair amount of heat makes it go away, blemish free. If it is significant, it goes away, leaving a small, smooth blemish. On coated lenses, it always leaves a small, smooth blemish.

    Caveat: this does not work for scratches, where the material is actually removed, only when it is slightly displaced, and would never work on AR.
    I had the opportunity to try this today.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    In the first pic there's a small "divot" or depression in the lens above the seg.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    In the second pic, after a minute in the bead bath, it's gone, with zero blemish.
    Wesley S. Scott, MBA, ABOM, NCLE-AC

    Ask the average American if ignorance and apathy are a problem in America, and the reply will be "I don't know, and I don't care." - me

  16. #41
    Ophthalmic Optician Wes's Avatar
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    This was a non-AR, scratch coated CR-39 lens.
    Wesley S. Scott, MBA, ABOM, NCLE-AC

    Ask the average American if ignorance and apathy are a problem in America, and the reply will be "I don't know, and I don't care." - me

  17. #42
    OptiWizard RIMLESS's Avatar
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    What's your name Wes Copperfield?????
    90% of everything is crap...except for crap, because crap is 100% crap

  18. #43
    Ophthalmic Optician Wes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIMLESS View Post
    What's your name Wes Copperfield?????
    Copperfield is old news. I'm "Wes Angel"
    Wesley S. Scott, MBA, ABOM, NCLE-AC

    Ask the average American if ignorance and apathy are a problem in America, and the reply will be "I don't know, and I don't care." - me

  19. #44
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter SeaU2020's Avatar
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    Just a "funny"... I once had a man come in with destroyed a/r coated high-index lenses that he "thought" were top-rack dishwasher safe!

  20. #45
    OptiWizard RIMLESS's Avatar
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    Is that your porn name??
    90% of everything is crap...except for crap, because crap is 100% crap

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    Nikolay, I have preached exactly the same thing here on OptiBoard for the last over 10 years. This is the way to do it, however on this continent most optician want to sell new glasses or at least lenses, and tell their customers it can not be done.

    Besides that you could do the stripping yourself for somebody that has purchased new glasses and would like to have the old partially delaminated ones as a spare. It only takes maximum 10 seconds to stripp the AR coating and about 1 hour to get rid of the hard coat, and you have most probably a lens without even a scratch.
    It can be done... but most high quality AR 's either won't work well (adhesion issues), can't be applied to cut and edged lenses, or you get clamp marks when they can. So you are often left with A and B AR's only. As well, larger scratches will fill unevenly and streak in a dip coater often leaving blurry spots or waves. One patient kept cleaning the new/old lenses just because they seemed fuzzy and dirty but it was tiny waves.

    Just because you can do something doesn't always mean you should do something.
    Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy ~Benjamin Franklin

  22. #47
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    I just looked at my stock lens price list..........this is not worth the effort.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by OpticLabRat View Post
    You can also cover the scratches with a China Marker, and then wipe clean. The scratches will temporarily disappear. "Not that Ive ever done that" to get something past the final rejector...I mean inspector :)
    ;)

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by bill8234 View Post
    What color China Marker?
    I've had the best luck with white. Usually doesn't work on lenses with A/R however.

  25. #50
    OptiBoardaholic a1vo's Avatar
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    Anybody use this product before? Can it be used to fix scratches??


    Amcon Scratch CoatAMCON SCRATCH COAT SOLUTION is a ready to use product designed to provide a scratch resistant coating to CR39 type lenses without the need for baking. This fast acting formula can treat up to 200 pairs of lenses.
    Paul @ Silicon Valley California

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