What Lens are truly Freeform?

[sharpstick777]

We are in the process of reorganizing our optical price structure to a Good, Better, Best system. What are considered the Best lens that use true free form tecnology? Zeiss Individual, Hoya ID lifestyle, and Physio Enhanced are some of the products we are considering. Is the Reveal Freeform truly a freeform lens?

I would counter that there is no one BEST lens. Different lifestyles have different needs, so the Best Lens is the lens that compliments a patients lifestyle the most. In general Wider Fields of view are good, but it depends where that wideness falls. Although the Auto II is immensely better than the Comfort, the reading can actually be narrower in the Auto II. If my patient reads a lot, she would be disappointed with her new lenses. There are Free-form lenses with wider reading than the Comfort though, but you get my drift.

It should be noted too, that those lenses requiring advanced measurements such as Panto, Wrap and Face Form will only benefit about 10% of our patient based on RX. I see myself better in the Spectrum than the Auto II in my low RX.

[n711]

Optimized free form: Autograph, Autograph II Fixed, Element, Spectrum, Succeed, Supercede, GT2-3D, SightStar365, Unique, Comfort DRx, Physio DRx.
Individualized free form: Autograph II Variable, Individual, Surmount.

I have had nothing but pure "wow" and sucess with any and ALL Shamir products! (Free-form only) I have been using these lenses pretty exclusively for the past year, and honestly, have never had it easier @ disp! For PAL's I use the Auto II about 80% of the time..the other 20% is split between the Element or a Spectrum lens. Now for SV nothing can beat the Autograph II SV either! We give our pt's a slight savings on premium AR to try and get them into this lens, I am that happy with it.
Now the new freeform Relax lens by Shamir is terrific! I doubt I will ever wear anything else!..

My 2cents.

[EyeMaster]

Ya... but Shamir is also available at Lenscrafters and Walmart and most of the other chains

If Walmart has it I don't need it....

[EyeMaster]

[QUOTE): I would digress a bit. Some of Hoya's lenses are cast on the front, digital on the back, so I would consider those products Hybrid lenses, not True Free-form.

I've heard that before, are you with Shamir?
I had a Shamir rep once say "that since HOYA lenses are cast on the front there not really true Free-form".

Perhaps we could have a HOYA expert explain what they're doing with their (so called, if you like) freeform product/products?

[hyperoptic]

Let me start off by putting it out there:

Im Kurt Gardner, Sales and Support Manager for IOT America: a independent lens design house dealing exclusively in House branded Digital PAL's

Here is my take on Freeform.
There is no BEST, rather its all about what works best for the patient, but I would look for a lens that best suits your needs and that if your customer is happy they will keep coming back when the need new ones.
We could look at a mountain of power maps and each say one is better than the other. There are disadvantages to having a Spherical front; namely that when fitting base curves on mild hyperopes generally a steeper curve is needed then when using a conventional product because the front curve needs to be chosen for the highest plus power, if a flatter curve is chosen then optics specifically in the near visual field are compromised as the rear surface curve approaches Plano. However for any myopes or higher hyperopes who are used to steep curves this has little effect.

There are also disavantages to having a dual surface design, the one that effects most dispensers is in availability of materials, and inventory issues. How many times does a job get delayed because we have the right blank but not the left, or not in transitions, etc.

We also haven't even touched on is the lens optimized (or compensated) or not. Non Compensated designs offer no great advantage to conventional progressives except the design is more recent. Where we can really start to show the capabilities of digital processing is when we begin to compensate for environmental factors that effect the wearer experience.

Ok Ill be quiet now

If you want more information just PM me

[n711]

Ya... but Shamir is also available at Lenscrafters and Walmart and most of the other chains

If Walmart has it I don't need it....

Eww.... I will have to check into that! Although, it seems like "chains" can get almost everything now. And just because they can "get" it doesn't mean that they use it.

[edKENdance]

Eww.... I will have to check into that! Although, it seems like "chains" can get almost everything now. And just because they can "get" it doesn't mean that they use it.

Sometimes they don't even know what they're using. My friend manages an LC. I asked him what they were using for their top of the line digital offering. He had no idea.

[sharpstick777]

[QUOTE): I would digress a bit. Some of Hoya's lenses are cast on the front, digital on the back, so I would consider those products Hybrid lenses, not True Free-form.

I've heard that before, are you with Shamir?
I had a Shamir rep once say "that since HOYA lenses are cast on the front there not really true Free-form".

Perhaps we could have a HOYA expert explain what they're doing with their (so called, if you like) freeform product/products?

No, I am independant. What Hoya is doing is nothing new, in fact it was first pattened in 1917 I believe although it was never put into production. They apply cyl across the 180 and the 90 on the front. Its in effect neutral in the lensometer on OC because its on both meridians. The effect is that they create prism both base up/out on the temporal side, and base up/in on the nasal side. The result is that it counters the geometric distortions created by every progressive's add power. Its essentially a small add at top out of central view to balance the add at the bottom. It does reduce distortion but it also pulls distance periferal vision outside the corrective range in proportion the prism it induces. They basically trade distance area for spatial control.

[sharpstick777]

We also haven't even touched on is the lens optimized (or compensated) or not. Non Compensated designs offer no great advantage to conventional progressives except the design is more recent. Where we can really start to show the capabilities of digital processing is when we begin to compensate for environmental factors that effect the wearer experience.

Kurt, could you please clarify what you define as "compensated"? There is some word in the market that only Free-form lenses that offer "customized" vertex, face form and panto calculations are truly better. However, I have seen usage studies from both manufacturers and universities where only about 11% of patients benefit from those advanced compensations (Essilors says 9%).

All true-free form are compenstated with at atoric, base curve, ect, and most use standard averages of tilt and vertex. So when you say "compenstated" are refering to the standard ones, or the fully customized ones?

And if you mean that only the highly customized compensated lenses are better, do you have any usage studies your company has done (or at least read) to support that? Right now the ones I have seen do not.

[GokhanSF]

Essilor doesn't have a true freeform yet, so consider Shamir AutoII, Hoya ID, Zeiss Individual, and Kodak Unique.

[GokhanSF]

True and False.... Lenscrafters and Walmart uses discontinued Shamir lenses which means your patient cannot get the latest technology lens they offer from them
.

Ya... but Shamir is also available at Lenscrafters and Walmart and most of the other chains

If Walmart has it I don't need it....

[sharpstick777]

Essilor doesn't have a true freeform yet, so consider Shamir AutoII, Hoya ID, Zeiss Individual, and Kodak Unique.

Physio DRx and Physio Enhanced Fit are both 100% Free-form.

[GokhanSF]

I don't think they are 100% freeform. Just because freeform surfacing is used doesn't mean you get a freeform lens. You also need a lens blank and design. :)

Physio DRx and Physio Enhanced Fit are both 100% Free-form.

[hyperoptic]

Essilor doesn't have a true freeform yet, so consider Shamir AutoII, Hoya ID, Zeiss Individual, and Kodak Unique.

And dont forget IOT designs (shameless plug)

[GokhanSF]

:) Of course IOT designs are freeform... Kurt can you please clarify what true freefom is? As far as I know Physio DRx and Physio Enhanced are not true freefom.

And dont forget IOT designs (shameless plug)