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Thread: Freeform flexibility......(or not)....?

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    Freeform flexibility......(or not)....?

    Have not been here for awhile so sorry if this a repeated topic. Can freeform designs be tweaked to accommodate patients without the standard 2.5 mm inset used with most standard progs today? I have a Doc here who insists he needs an inset for near of about 3.5 on the right and only 1.0 on the left.
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    Many of progressive designs contains of feature of variable inset. I would recommend you to contact your lens supplier about this matter

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    I worked with a doc like that once. He also thought PAL slab offs were the only way to go. Call your lab and good luck.

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    Yes. The Shamir Autograph II Variable is the one I'm most familiar with, though I'm sure there are others.
    There are rules. Knowing those are easy. There are exceptions to the rules. Knowing those are easy. Knowing when to use them is slightly less easy. There are exceptions to the exceptions. Knowing those is a little more tricky, and know when to use those is even more so. Our industry is FULL of all of the above.

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    Variable inset is in the pipeline.
    , among other variables. Put that in your warby parkers ®

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    Seiko let you specify inset on their Emblem, NEO and Superior lenses. Those are the UK names, I don't know what they will be called over there (I don't recognise any of the Seiko lens names I see on Optiboard).

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    In the us the equivalents have not been released. Im not shure u.s. opticians would make enough use of it for seiko to bother with. As it is the choice of corridor lengths is poorly applied.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FVCCHRIS View Post
    Have not been here for awhile so sorry if this a repeated topic. Can freeform designs be tweaked to accommodate patients without the standard 2.5 mm inset used with most standard progs today? I have a Doc here who insists he needs an inset for near of about 3.5 on the right and only 1.0 on the left.
    I've ordered custom insets with Zeiss's Individual and Shamir's Autograph. You might want to check the rational behind the large disparity in insets though.

    FYI, most PALs (probably all of the premium designs) have a variable inset, depending base curve, i.e a +8 BC might be inset around 3mm and a +2 BC about 1mm, assuming a work distance of 40cm.
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    Quote Originally Posted by snotbagel View Post
    In the us the equivalents have not been released. Im not shure u.s. opticians would make enough use of it for seiko to bother with. As it is the choice of corridor lengths is poorly applied.
    Interesting. We have Wing (traditional front surface design), then Synergy (back surface but no customisation), then the three I mentioned with increasing amount of variability. What's available over there? I see Surmount and Succede mentioned, do you think they are the same as Wing and Synergy? Are there only the 2 available from Seiko there?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aberdeen Angus View Post
    Interesting. We have Wing (traditional front surface design), then Synergy (back surface but no customisation), then the three I mentioned with increasing amount of variability. What's available over there? I see Surmount and Succede mentioned, do you think they are the same as Wing and Synergy? Are there only the 2 available from Seiko there?
    There are 4 available from Seiko in the Free Form catagory. Surmount (which does allow some adjustment of inset), the Supercede, and the Succeed. All are full back surface with degrees of what they take into account (POW, frame shape, pd, seg ht, etc.). The fourth is a full back surface with no customization, that Seiko allows independent labs to brand (rename) as they wish.

    That's for the independent lab. There are also 3 designs that they market directly to ECP's under their Perfas brand. They are, in essence, the same as the three Seiko branded lenses. There is also a Perfas brandable version as well (or at least there was about a year ago, I don't know if it's still around).
    There are rules. Knowing those are easy. There are exceptions to the rules. Knowing those are easy. Knowing when to use them is slightly less easy. There are exceptions to the exceptions. Knowing those is a little more tricky, and know when to use those is even more so. Our industry is FULL of all of the above.

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    Nevermind.
    There are rules. Knowing those are easy. There are exceptions to the rules. Knowing those are easy. Knowing when to use them is slightly less easy. There are exceptions to the exceptions. Knowing those is a little more tricky, and know when to use those is even more so. Our industry is FULL of all of the above.

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    It is also possible to actually lay the design out with an unusual physical orientation, but compensate the axis to make the distance prescription perfect, but swing the corridor in or out for each eye to exactly what the patient needs. In other words, calculate the degree of rotation to get your 1.0 twist for the left, and then offset the programmable axis to offset the physical rotation of the blank in the block. The same in the more extreme right eye. The DOC would still be at the correct PD and height.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Martellaro View Post
    I've ordered custom insets with ...Shamir's Autograph. FYI, most PALs (probably all of the premium designs) have a variable inset,
    I looked on Shamir's website, and the technical information I have, and this is not mentioned. Is there information on this anywhere or our my white papers outdated?

    As far as I know, only 2 lenses specify this feature in the US: Kodak Unique and Seiko Surmount.

    I am looking through my white papers today to see if I can find proof on any others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sharpstick777 View Post
    I looked on Shamir's website, and the technical information I have, and this is not mentioned. Is there information on this anywhere or our my white papers outdated?

    As far as I know, only 2 lenses specify this feature in the US: Kodak Unique and Seiko Surmount.

    I am looking through my white papers today to see if I can find proof on any others.
    Shamir calls it their "Free Frame" technology available only in the Autograph II Variable. There used to be a decent amount of info about it, but Shamir seems to not be promoting it as much. There is functionality in their prescriptor to set the inset for the Variable design.
    There are rules. Knowing those are easy. There are exceptions to the rules. Knowing those are easy. Knowing when to use them is slightly less easy. There are exceptions to the exceptions. Knowing those is a little more tricky, and know when to use those is even more so. Our industry is FULL of all of the above.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WFruit View Post
    Shamir calls it their "Free Frame" technology available only in the Autograph II Variable. There used to be a decent amount of info about it, but Shamir seems to not be promoting it as much. There is functionality in their prescriptor to set the inset for the Variable design.
    I don't think Free-frame offers fully customized insets, it just combines the frame demensions with a variable corridor design to ensure the patient gets a full reading zone,. Its a basis to combine frame dimensions and seg height into a corridor length. The reason its disappearing from the documentaion is that Shamir is moving away from variable corridors because dispensers don't know how to use it very well.

    So for example, it would take the frame dimensions and measurements and first determine where the OC should be. Then with the seg height it works backwords to determine the optimal reading zone size, then account for drop in subracts the seg height to come to an ideal corridor length. It then pulls up the corresponding point file.

    All variable corridor lense have to do this really, its not as special as it seems.

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