Where is the news ?

[idispense]

Where is the News ? Wouldn't you think that some of the optical associations and the Colleges would be informing and reporting this news in their newsletters and on their web sites ?


http://www.thespec.com/news/local/ar...ence-suspended


After the Colleges spent huge dollars in court, how is it possible that they have no comment on this ? Did the Presidential messages say anything about this ?

Is this not newsworthy to the members of all associations and regulatory body members or is it just too embarassing ? Were they all sleeping at the switch ?


Why do they all go quiet after spending our money ? Where is our legal people ?


Where are the court transcripts ? Did the Regulatory bodies or anyone oppose this ?

The fines were reported as being in the 17 million dollar range , how is it that non-payment and a suspended sentence is not important enough for mention by the Associations and College regulatory boards ? How much money did we spend on legals for this to not be of interest to report ?

What were the two biggest optical news events in the past 8 years ?

[idispense]

Perhaps the Ontario Minister of Health would like to explain the value rules and regulations to us and the public ?


Who makes the mockery ?

[ex-optician]

I believe if the Colleges want compensation for their legal expenses then they have to file a separate law suite. ($100,000 plus of our money) The decision to pursue this would be based on legal counsel's advice. Mr. Bergez may have financial assets available or transfered ownership a long time ago if he was smart. Unfortunately this is the justice system in Ontario. The penalty for white collar crime is just a slap on the wrist. My mother was swindled out of her retirement money by an investment manager. The out come was very similar. A minor penalty and kiss your money good bye because it has been shifted around were you can not reach it!

[idispense]

Still the College of Opticians , the Ministry of health , the Optometry College, and the relevant associations have a duty to inform the opticians and optometrists of the final outcome after spending our money . They can not be allowed to whitewash this .

This should have been in the Presidents message from the College of Opticians and it should also be on all of their web sites.

The College of Opticians of Ontario can not be allowed to proclaim Integrity, Transparency and Accountability while they whitewash this .

When all of the rules have been violated and none will stand up in court and the result is a suspended sentence and complete mockery of justice and a complete mockery of our Standards of Practise , then we as members are entitled to know the outcome achieved by our leaders or lack of leaders.

We can not allow our self governing regulator to continue on a path on inventing new rules and spending more money to make new rules when they can not enforce the old rules .

We must insist on knowing the truth, that means they must tell us why we lost in court and why they will not enforce the existing rules to apply to the internet vendors.

[tmorse]

Still the College of Opticians , the Ministry of health , the Optometry College, and the relevant associations have a duty to inform the opticians and optometrists of the final outcome after spending our money . They can not be allowed to whitewash this .

This should have been in the Presidents message from the College of Opticians and it should also be on all of their web sites.

The College of Opticians of Ontario can not be allowed to proclaim Integrity, Transparency and Accountability while they whitewash this .

When all of the rules have been violated and none will stand up in court and the result is a suspended sentence and complete mockery of justice and a complete mockery of our Standards of Practise , then we as members are entitled to know the outcome achieved by our leaders or lack of leaders.

We can not allow our self governing regulator to continue on a path on inventing new rules and spending more money to make new rules when they can not enforce the old rules .

We must insist on knowing the truth, that means they must tell us why we lost in court and why they will not enforce the existing rules to apply to the internet vendors.

Sounds as if you have a platform. Why didn't you run in the last recent Board election and actually try to change a few things?

[idispense]

I'd have to leave the farm and go to Toronto. I can't figure out why anyone would go there. I am just a small town country hick. Here we trust our neighbours, we don't shoot people driving on the highways . First thing I'd have to do is close that office down, and buy a bigger building but actually own it for less than 5 years rent. I still believe in equity.

I wanna smell the fresh air not chew on exhaust fumes . I wanna look up and see white clouds surrounded by blue sky, I don't understand rings of brown, smoggy haze everywhere I look .


When it rains I wanna smell fresh cut grass, not get drunk from smokin it. When I park my truck I wanna still find the keys in it when I get back. When my neighbor runs out of gas I wanna toss him my keys and say "here take mine "

I wanna sit with the dog at my feet smellin fresh coffeee brewing watchin electric storms and hear thunder pounding in my ear . I don't wanna hear the sounds of concrete fallin on my head from the Gardiner .

When we run things here , we don't peek at the wine before it's time . I wanna live in democracy not hypocrisy .

[Chris Ryser]

idispense.............nice way of living, the why the above complaint.

Law cases cost lot of money. Both sides Lawyers will discuss together how to drag it on for years and the accused has probably exported whatever you could make him pay.

I would worry a lot more about what the on-line opticals are doing to your associations.

[idispense]

I am worried about the on-liners and that's why the complaint. Unfortunately the problem as I see it is at the top of the chain . Not enforcing the existing rules and regulations allows the on-liners to grow.

The bottom of the chain (on-liners) are expanding and gaining ground because the top of the chain (Regulators) are not doing their job.

Google was fined 500 million recently for their part in the pharmacy illegal advertisements. We can do the same.


First though we have to fix the Regulators. As near as I can tell they are not taking any form of action .

Adding new rules that are equally unenforceablele because of inaction is not the answer, we do not need any more changes to the CE credits. We do not need a "portfolio system" . We need to put teeth into what we have .

[Chris Ryser]

I am worried about the on-liners and that's why the complaint. Unfortunately the problem as I see it is at the top of the chain . Not enforcing the existing rules and regulations allows the on-liners to grow.

Where does one go to try and get probably some action if enough poeple participate ? Put some pressure to elected members of Parlament . I dont know how many Candian OptiBoarders we have, but mayube we can succeed. We would have to write up a message and correct and ad and recorrect to get it real impressing and then have as many members as we can, to e-mail it to the members of Parlament. If all of them will get it someone, or more will probably get the message and do something about it. This could be an ongoing campaign which cost's not a cent just a little effort.

I have setup a list of all 308 of them including their e-mail addresses, you can get that list at my website at:
http://optochemicals.com/canadian_parlament.htm

I will start a new thread on this subject over the weekend.........if we have many that want to participate, at least there could be some action.

Have a nice weekend.

[inside out]

I am new to this forum. I have background info on alot of this politics. So I will say this. The problem we have with govt hearing us is that healthcare is a provincial power. You can talk to the fed govt all you like but they dont control the provinces healthcare standards. Also we need to remember that although Ontario may be the biggest province it not the only province in Canada. That is why BC has sighttesting and what I call deregulating of dispensing and other provinces do not have the same rules. From my experience it appears that the provincial regulators have no backbone to stand up to the national bodies. The national bodies are not answerable to any govt or public group but they control the finances of smaller provincial blended regulatory bodies through education and con-ed conventions. If we are to ever to have success in all the provincial govts to hear our voice we must maintain the power at the provincial level and at the same time unite are voices one concern at a time. The existing national bodies are professionally silent on the topic of preventing internet dispensing. The individual hard working optician is crying out for help. Their reply at our con-eds is to teach us how to sell online. How demoralizing!!! What a joke our professional standards have become. What a hypocracy to our education standards and our testing of competencies. These two messages are two opposite roads that our national bodies our try to take us down. It cant be done. So we have no leadership. If internet dispensing is the the new inevitable game change then why do we need to maintain the financial load of these national bodies to have national standards when there appears to be none. How can we in good conscience have discipline committees for individual opticians when we do nothing about the big internet companies providing glasses in other provinces than BC. We pay for a licence to have crediablity so that we can ensure a certain level of income as we perform a public service. If we pay for a licence and we have no professional support where is the logic? We need to devolop not another national body but a grassroots group that serves the provinces as one national voice. Currently the provincial bodies who are answerable to govt are serving the national bodies who are not answerable to govt or public. This equations needs to be reversed. If this is to be done much courage is needed. You will be attached. So far I have witnessed very few publically courageous Opticians. Behind the scenes they talk big, but when you pull the curtain up and it hits the fan they melt faster than an ice cube in boiling water and quake to the national bodies. I think the govt is willing to listen to us. We just need the individual Opticians with courage who takes the time to do the home work and to band together and speak with a united voice. Let us not be deceived the govt wants one clear voice not 20 conflicting voices. Once we achieve that with full transparency they will listen. From this forum I hear a clear concern against internet dispensing. This appears to be the frontline Opticians concern. My question is who is muddying the waters and for what purpose?

[Chris Ryser]

From this forum I hear a clear concern against internet dispensing. This appears to be the frontline Opticians concern. My question is who is muddying the waters and for what purpose?

inside out............................what a post, congratulations, you make sense, just wonder if your words will be taken to heart by most.

[inside out]

I will start a new thread on this subject over the weekend.........if we have many that want to participate, at least there could be some action.

you are welcome to repost my first thoughts if you think it would get Opticians going.
In reply to your words will it be taken to heart. I have the bullet holes to prove that it likely will not. I dont know who to trust any more. I know too much and the national's know that. I would not dance their tune. I believe I know how to fix the national problems of opticians but my voice is shut down at every turn. I think that is because it would greatly effect the cash flow of the national bodies. How do I get Opticians to hear me?
One thing that gives control the provinces is the Agreement on Internal Trade(AIT). It supercedes over the Mutual Recognition Agreement. In section 700 of the AIT it outlines the intra provincial recognizing of Licence. Unless we are listed as an except (which Optician are not) there is no way that an Optician in good standing in one province can be rejected from being licensed in another (except Quebec). This is so regardless of where they got their education. The second point is this. It is within the power, according to their ACT and Bylaws, of every provincial regulatory body to choose their own education source and to assess the competency of each individual applying for a licence in their province. The education in fact does not have to be accredited by NACOR. None of the provincial healthcare departments ask this. The National Exam should be able to maintain national standards. This is the power provincial regulatory bodies have given up to NACOR of their own choosing. I dont understand why. Because this is how the regulatory bodies are control by the national's. By making the provincial bodies choose only NACOR accredited courses it severely limits the options for many small provinces. Take for instance to NAIT distance delivery course. The substance of that course is actually quite good. The problem is that the distribution rights are owned by the OAC. They profit somewhere around a 1000$ ++ per course fee for each student. There is some 300+ courses sold accross Canada. They have given the provinces no other choose than to except an agreement where the OAC fees go up every year by 5%. Surprise, surprise the course NAIT was one of the first courses to be NACOR accredited. By the way the NACOR office is in the same building,on the same floor and just accross the hallway from the OAC office. They actually used to share the same office areas. Last I checked they still share the same office equipment. So it seems clear to me that education controls cash flow and cash flow controls the power of each province to control it own destiny. Take the education control out of the hands of provincial regulatory bodies and you control them. Added to this many small provinces have no choice but to take the OAC course that NAIT offers because of NACOR accreditation. They have made it so that no other option is available within their province to be educated and recognized. So where do these small provinces recover their lost revenue? They increase your licensing fee. Of course there are many fees associated with all this accreditation. There is national exam fees. Seat fees that the regulatory must pay to both NACOR and OAC. Plus of course each Optician membership OAC fees of 105$ per year. Some of these fees are blended right into the provincial associations membership. Plus OAC receives healthy donations from the suppliers. The OAC collects a 1,000,000+ dollars a years from all these revenue sources. I actually may be on the low side. Really there is nothing new here. It is the old adage whoever holds the cash holds the power. I have to admit. They are pretty good at it. There is one hope though. We are the Opticians not the national's. Provincially we still hold the legal power. The provinces are the ones answerable to govt and the public. The national bodies do not answer to anyone. The provincial regulatory bodies have govt appointed reps on their boards the national bodies do not. And if misconduct is disclosed who takes the hit? Who pays out the cash? It is the provincial bodies not the national bodies. Remember healthcare is a provincial power and not federal. So it is the provinces that are accountable for their choices of delegating power to the national bodies. We deal with the public,we bend the frames and we fit the contacts. We have a voice. Knowlege is power. Educate yourself. Get on your regulatory board. Read and understand your Act and Bylaws. Read the AIT( at least section700). (This information is all avialable on the internet. Its all public info) Research NACOR and OAC. Holler to your local health minister and require transparancy. After all, it is your cash they are using. It also YOUR Profession.

[idispense]

Congratulations , you said it right ! If opticians would go to the College Board meetings, they would be disgusted with most of what goes on there. They would quickly find that there is only one or two with enough guts to speak the truth and act on principles.

The first step would be a forum where we could reach the opticians . The second step would be to convince them that most of their Regulators need a clean sweep out the door. If opticians attended meetings that would convince them . If they attended meetings they would know first hand where the problems are and why there has been no action in years.

[tmorse]

If they attended meetings they would know first hand where the problems are and why there has been no action in years.

But, but, but..."I'd have to leave the farm and go to Toronto. I can't figure out why anyone would go there. I am just a small town country hick." Post#6.

[idispense]

But, but, but..."I'd have to leave the farm and go to Toronto. I can't figure out why anyone would go there. I am just a small town country hick." Post#6.

Very true Ted, I do dislike the place but I go regularly.

[Chris Ryser]

The first step would be a forum where we could reach the opticians .

What a comment............................you are right on one of them. Not only a Forum, but the most popular one in the optical cyberspace according to my listing of optical websites at : http://optochemicals.com/web_listing.htm at the bottom of the page under Forums.

You are right on it, there is a (Professional and Educational Organizations) you could use for this purpose. It seems to be all at your fingertips to start and get some action without any problems.

[inside out]

What a comment............................you are right on one of them. Not only a Forum, but the most popular one in the optical cyberspace according to my listing of optical websites at : http://optochemicals.com/web_listing.htm at the bottom of the page under Forums.

You are right on it, there is a (Professional and Educational Organizations) you could use for this purpose. It seems to be all at your fingertips to start and get some action without any problems.

I have the knowledge. I have the courage. I have the time. I can convince Opticians one on one. How do I get even just the majority of my provincial Optician to hear me? Then how do I get Opticians accross canada to hear me. When the bullets fly I hold my ground but one individual can not win this war. Honestly I have tried. Everyone who gets involved in this must know that they will be attacked and be willing to take a hit. If we run at the first letter from their lawyers we lose. We will need cash to pay for our own administrative lawyers. They are 300-400 per hr. I believe that current legislation favors this cause. In my appeals to goverment their legal department says that these bodies are self regulating and that unless there is a strong out cry from the public they have no legal position to get involved. The provincial govt appears to give a wide latitude as to how regulators govern to their respective provinces. The most economicial way then to make change is to become a regulator and replace the old guard. If you consider most regulatory bodies they consist of very few indepentents that have their own dollars invested in their optical. With all due respect to my colleagues in the different positions I believe that it is the indepentent optician that is fully able to carry out the moto "What is good for Opticians is what is also good for the Public." We cant afford to look after the public properly if we dont look out for ourselves. When an Optician is working in the blanket of their corperations or employers they dont see or feel the bottom line. With the current market Opticals can not afford to pay for the 50000$+ plus wages and compete with the internet. They can't afford to pay for their Optician licensing fees. The numbers dont add up. Thus we have the inevitable de regulation as we have witnessed in BC. I was told by an independent BC Optician that he was threatened with legal action by his BC regulatory board if he did not renew his licence even though he was only going to just dispense glasses. Our current provincial regulators and associations can stay in their fancy hotel at the national meetings, have their drinks paid for by the national bodies expense account and collect their big wages and enjoy their status and perks and party as the real Opticians are dying one by one. As they enjoy the 300$ per night hotels with the Lindt chocolate on their pillows and the liquor flows from this blood money. When their minds numbed by design and the real decisions are made. I hope they at least pay homage to the tomb of the last of the Opticians

[idispense]

There are only two forums that will work in Ontario and that is where you have to be , because that is where the opticians are in one place, otherwise you will have to be a travelling sales person to encounter them all economically. So start learning how to get the mic.

[inside out]

Ontario Ontario yes that is the flag ship but this problem is Canada wide. I will start learning how to get the mic. How about you teach me. All ears. Care to stand by my side???

[inside out]

canceled

[Ory]

Haley
I dont know quite how to feel about you comments. I am very glad to hear from an Ophthalmologist. And your first post as well. I hope you ment that this ablity would serve me well in a campaign. I hope you didnt think I should give up being an Optician and become an ad consultant. I would be pleased the hear from a higher educated eyecare professional and hear what you think of our Canadian situation. And would like to hear your advice. By the way I have written poetry for decades and no they dont all rhyme. I am passionate about every thing I do. This of course effects the way I feel about my profession.

Haley is a spammer who wrote a random generic line to get the link in the signature on the site. Likely not an ophthalmologist.....

[inside out]

Thank you. And my reply was so polite. LOL. I thought they were screened out. I will watch for this in the future.

[idispense]

Ontario Ontario yes that is the flag ship but this problem is Canada wide. I will start learning how to get the mic. How about you teach me. All ears. Care to stand by my side???

Do you have CE seminars where you are and where all of the Opticians go to be in one place ? How many opticians are in Saskatchewan ? Do you have emails and address for all of them ? When is your next CE seminar ? During Q & A stand up with your questions and start talking fact.

[inside out]

Have you ever been on the front lines? You sound a little condsending. There is around 250 opticians.. no I dont have all their emails. working on that. What Q+A? I am the.only one asking questions at the Agm. Do you attend your agm.Are you as vocal there as you are here. Cause I am. Did you make any phone calls today to resolve this? Cause I did. So teach me something a havnt tried. I will stand by your side at your agm. I will speak with you at your agm. I will pay for my own flight to get there. Will you do the same for me at my agm? I will pay for your flight. Just so you know I always do just as I say.

[idispense]

Sounds familiar, 2400 opticians more or less in Ontario and a handful at best that would speak up at the AGM . Those would get cut off. Out of 250 how many would attend in a province the size of Sakatchewan? Out of 250 how many are employees of chains ? What would motivate a chain store employee to speak up especially if their license fees are paid for by the employer ? Why would anyone in BC speak up , they have no rights now and if they were worried they have already lost their chance and blown their timing. The best BC could do now is start over again from the bottom and the beginning and prove risk of harm, then lobby to reinstate licensure. BC needs young blood to do that , those at the top with insitutional memory are too close to retirement and count the prize as refraction.