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Thread: Acetate from China vs. Italy? Any major differences?

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    Acetate from China vs. Italy? Any major differences?

    Hi,

    I was wondering if anyone has noticed any quality differences from the acetate from China versus Italy? I noticed the Ray Ban frames from China seem just as equal to the ones they make in Italy. Not sure if they use Chinese acetate in their Made in China frames though.

    Thanks for any input.

    Regards,
    Jim

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    Are those Chinese Raybans really zyl? It seems many are now injected, not pantographed, not "real plastic".

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    I always found the Itallian or early R-B plastics to be far more difficullt to mount and much more critical about being just the right temp when mounting, dismounting lenses. Easier to roll, etc. Don't know if this has gotten better or worse.

    Chip

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    Quote Originally Posted by finefocus View Post
    Are those Chinese Raybans really zyl? It seems many are now injected, not pantographed, not "real plastic".
    yes, they appear like acetate (zyl) to me. For example, the RB 5150.

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    From other fellow opticians, all I gather is that the Italian acetate has more color variations than the chinese counterpart and the material being stiffer to hence hold their shape longer.

    I was wondering if others would note other quality differences of the acetate?

    It is interesting that you mention the difficulties with the older model RBs Chip. I guess it would be a testament to their acetate holding shape better hence nicer quality in that respect.

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    Blue Jumper Celulose acetate........................

    I have done a search for acetate sheets made in Europe aand have not found any evidence that there is still any made there. There are still some textile acetate manufacturers to be found in the west and the rest is all in Asia.

    In 1849 Mazzucchelli Spa. opened in north of Italy in Castiglione Olona a town near Varese, Como and Milan. The founder Santino Mazzucchelli and his son Pompeo begin working Cellulose nitrate sheets in the late 1800. The idea was to transform the sheets in to combs, brushes, bottons and hair ornaments. This entrepreneurs were able to establish a company that would influence the development of bioplastic material world wide til today. Mazzucchelli grew to become the largest producer of Celluloid Acetate sheets and Cellulose Nitrate sheets worldwide. Today this warm and aesthetically pleasing material is used mostly for making the frames for eyeglasses, followed by hair ornaments, jewellery, stationary and other accessories. The history of Mazzucchelli 1849 Spa. is fascinating being one of the few family company that lasted for 6 generations. The family is still involved in the business and it continues to influence the bioplastic manufactring development in Europe, USA and Asia. Through the year many tests were done and many patterns were created with acetate sheets the most famous is the Tortoise shell look made exclusively by Mazzucchelli.

    Aceteate sheets, to perform properly in the frame manufacturing I learned a long time ago, need quite some time to cure in storage and are not ready right away for processing after manufacturing.
    Chris Ryser
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    Ain't it strange that all the countries that have joined the global economy, started farming out all the real work to China and the far East because it's cheaper and more profitable to import it and re-sell it here are in real ecconomic trouble.
    Those that still make most of thier own stuff seem to be getting buy.

    Chip

    NAFTA is a good thing "because it's a global economy?" Yea, right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    I have done a search for acetate sheets made in Europe aand have not found any evidence that there is still any made there. There are still some textile acetate manufacturers to be found in the west and the rest is all in Asia.

    In 1849 Mazzucchelli Spa. opened in north of Italy in Castiglione Olona a town near Varese, Como and Milan. The founder Santino Mazzucchelli and his son Pompeo begin working Cellulose nitrate sheets in the late 1800. The idea was to transform the sheets in to combs, brushes, bottons and hair ornaments. This entrepreneurs were able to establish a company that would influence the development of bioplastic material world wide til today. Mazzucchelli grew to become the largest producer of Celluloid Acetate sheets and Cellulose Nitrate sheets worldwide. Today this warm and aesthetically pleasing material is used mostly for making the frames for eyeglasses, followed by hair ornaments, jewellery, stationary and other accessories. The history of Mazzucchelli 1849 Spa. is fascinating being one of the few family company that lasted for 6 generations. The family is still involved in the business and it continues to influence the bioplastic manufactring development in Europe, USA and Asia. Through the year many tests were done and many patterns were created with acetate sheets the most famous is the Tortoise shell look made exclusively by Mazzucchelli.

    Aceteate sheets, to perform properly in the frame manufacturing I learned a long time ago, need quite some time to cure in storage and are not ready right away for processing after manufacturing.
    Thanks for the information.

    Yeah, I noticed that a lot of high end acetate frames state Mazzucchelli acetate. It is surprising very available but there is a slight wait time stated by the manufacturers. I believe even frames from Warby Parker make it using their acetate.

    Acetate from Italy adds to the frame production costs and hence my question, is it really worth it?

    As with most companies, Mazzucchelli now has a factory in Mainland China!

    With all of the factories being moved out to China, it is only a matter of time that they too just simply copy the techniques of foreign companies.

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    With all of the factories being moved out to China, it is only a matter of time that they too just simply copy the techniques of foreign companies.

    It is our established corporations that are moving their equipment to China and train chinese workers to do the same as it was done in the old country. The the quality is still the same but the cost to make it has come way down.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ckglasses View Post
    My company also do OEM for some top brand glasses,may be your glasses which was made by our factory.
    Such as this? (I posted the link, but it didn't work)





    LOL! Can you get us a deal on a boatload of these? Is that a RayBan , or RayBon?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ckglasses View Post
    Hi,John


    I wish from here I can get to know more R&D engineers or designer,and other glasses company which can offer good job for me.


    ...................just wondering what this has to do with the theme of this thread ??????????????
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    is there a site or some data or test result of the different in acetate zyl .i am considering buying material in Asia and producing them but i want the best grade material i can find within my reach .

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    In the old days, when reps knew what they were selling, the storyline was that the best zyl was aged before being milled into a frame. Lesser plastic would draw up, especially visible on the temples where the metal core would start showing as the plastic shrank. It shows up as true when in the donation box of old glasses, the better quality frames, many 10-15 years old are still solid. Many newer frames start showing the temple core after only a few months. Sometimes the sales reps samples are starting to shrink.

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    That is really good info you got , but when you said Aged how long is the process. A few days ? weeks or month , or is there a process which will improve it , like heat treatment and so on .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bear View Post
    That is really good info you got , but when you said Aged how long is the process. A few days ? weeks or month , or is there a process which will improve it , like heat treatment and so on .
    This a fantastic topic! Thanks to the OP for starting it up!

    To Bear: I will assume that some of the methods, oils used, infused, timings of curing, turning, etc. is a pile of "trade secrets" harbored by a handful of Italian masters of the craft. Kinda like a great Italian wine!

    (Sip) Cheers!

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    i am trying hard to learn and produce my range of Sunglasses, so far had had been communicating with mazzucchelli and there had point me to some very good direction, and even their china outlet .
    i am also asking my supporting factory toi test out many material to see which is most suitable for what i want. and getting the best end result and lasting product. Some design can counter the material weakness, not it does not always work.



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    Hello,

    I have done a range of sunglasses using mazzucchelli. It is really good acetate but is very malleable, so if the sunglasses heat up they are very prone to twisting out of shape easily. This can be a good point when custom fitting but canalso be annoying making sure all your stock is always in correct shape. I am interested to here your end findings. I am getting some samples made with chinese Acetate to test this week.

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    The Chinese acetate that I have seen is very poor quality compared to the Italian. Even the Chinese made Mazzucchelli doesn't have the same feel as the Italian. You may also want to check out Decorocet in France they do some custom acetates. There are several more in Europe that do small custom orders and do some fantastic work. Some of the smaller manufacturers are unknown here in the States just because they only produce very small quantities for special customers.

    I just seen some today from a small shop in Greece that will knock your socks off. A montage of geometric shapes in very, very bright colours, he's also showing the same type of pattern in pastels.
    Last edited by Jacqui; 04-19-2013 at 08:12 PM.
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    Blue Jumper acetate sheets had to be stored..............................

    I learned a long time ago, when I was still in frames that acetate sheets had to be stored at least 12 to 15 month after they had been made for a proper curing cicle. If the material was too young it would not stand up properly for daily use as in glasses. As far a I know the formula has not changed ..................so if you get crappy frames that would be the reason for not holding up.
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    How interesting! I'm thinking of doing a small run on a frame that has the perfect fit, or as close as humanly possible to a perfect fit.
    How would one go about locating a small manufacturer in the States? Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by newopt75 View Post
    How interesting! I'm thinking of doing a small run on a frame that has the perfect fit, or as close as humanly possible to a perfect fit.
    How would one go about locating a small manufacturer in the States? Thanks

    I don't know, I've been trying to start a small frame factory just for that reason.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacqui View Post
    I don't know, I've been trying to start a small frame factory just for that reason.
    Is there a commericially made milling machine that suits your needs to do this ? What about tumblers and polishers ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by idispense View Post
    Is there a commericially made milling machine that suits your needs to do this ? What about tumblers and polishers ?
    YES!!! I'm sending you another PM about this.
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    How many face shapes are there? .....................................

    Quote Originally Posted by newopt75 View Post

    How interesting! I'm thinking of doing a small run on a frame that has the perfect fit, or as close as humanly possible to a perfect fit.
    How would one go about locating a small manufacturer in the States? Thanks


    You will have to make many runs of perfect fits if humanly possible......................, there is no standard face on this earth, not only in my opinion, but also as a fact.

    How many face shapes are there?

    Oval, Long, Square, Heart and Round are the standard face shapes, although there are realistically so many more. Oblong, rectangular, triangular, diamond, and inverted triangle are also some other shapes that are commonly referred to.
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    Thanks for interesting thread.
    Last edited by Den; 08-04-2014 at 10:51 AM. Reason: correcting mistakes
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