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Thread: The NEWER Poly vs. The OLDER Poly???

  1. #1
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    The NEWER Poly vs. The OLDER Poly???

    I have been told by a few "surfacing" professionals that the poly of late is a lot better than that of old......

    Can anyone shed light on this topic?

    Can the abbe value have changed???

    or is there something else I'm just not getting??

    Thanks guys.

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    A few years ago someone noticed that CD's were better than optical poly. CD poly was adopted for optical use. If something newer is afoot. I'm not aware. But then there is a lot more that I don't know than that which I do know.

    Chip

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    HAHAHA! Follow the money trail. HAHAHA!

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    Master OptiBoarder pseudonym's Avatar
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    I'd like to know more about the differences in lens materials myself. If there is some uber high grade poly, how can you know if your company is using it? Then there is good old CR-39. My company uses Ormex and Gentex. Optically superior, but brittle. Would you use that over poly? Before you start in with the Trivex, please remember we don't all have access to the good stuff. Our choice is bad or badder.

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    Doh! braheem24's Avatar
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    It no longer has a grey #1 tint but still cracks and peels; That's the extent of my poly knowledge.

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    Blue Jumper it has low scratch-resistance and so a hard coating is applied to polycarbonate .....

    Polycarbonate is a very durable material. Although it has high impact-resistance, it has low scratch-resistance and so a hard coating is applied to polycarbonate eyewear lenses and polycarbonate exterior automotive components. The characteristics of polycarbonate are quite like those of polymethyl methacrylate (PMMA, acrylic), but polycarbonate is stronger, usable in a wider temperature range but more expensive. This polymer is highly transparent to visible light and has better light transmission characteristics than many kinds of glass.
    Polycarbonate has a glass transition temperature of about 150 °C (302 °F), so it softens gradually above this point and flows above about 300 °C (572 °F). Tools must be held at high temperatures, generally above 80 °C (176 °F) to make strain- and stress-free products. Low molecular mass grades are easier to mold than higher grades, but their strength is lower as a result. The toughest grades have the highest molecular mass, but are much more difficult to process.
    Unlike most thermoplastics, polycarbonate can undergo large plastic deformations without cracking or breaking. As a result, it can be processed and formed at room temperature using sheet metal techniques, such as forming bends on a brake. Even for sharp angle bends with a tight radius, no heating is generally necessary. This makes it valuable in prototyping applications where transparent or electrically non-conductive parts are needed, which cannot be made from sheet metal. Note that PMMA/Plexiglas, which is similar in appearance to polycarbonate, is brittle and cannot be bent at room temperature.
    Main transformation techniques for polycarbonate resins:
    • extrusion into tubes, rods and other profiles
    • extrusion with cylinders into sheets (0.5–15 mm (0.020–0.59 in)) and films (below 1 mm (0.039 in)), which can be used directly or manufactured into other shapes using thermoforming or secondary fabrication techniques, such as bending, drilling, routing, laser cutting etc.
    • injection molding into ready articles

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycarbonate

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    Well, one thing that's better about the newer poly is that you rarely find tiny carbon chunks in it, though I recently actually did find a chunk in a finished poly lens. And the CD comparison does not fly as far as CD-Rs go - if you try to fold one in half it will literally explode! And I think regular CDs are not really different than other optical grade poly - they still scratch fairly easily, even with their scratch coat.
    Here's a site that can let you search through over 4000 grades of poly.
    http://www.matweb.com/reference/polycarbonate.aspx
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    Master OptiBoarder Striderswife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonLensmanWV View Post
    And the CD comparison does not fly as far as CD-Rs go - if you try to fold one in half it will literally explode! And I think regular CDs are not really different than other optical grade poly - they still scratch fairly easily, even with their scratch coat.

    Are we talking about compact disk CDs? I remember watching Adam on Mythbusters fold one in half way early in the show. They also put one in the microwave, label-side down, and it made an amazing sparkly light show! 8^D

    I never would have made a connection between CDs and poly lenses if I hadn't read this thread.
    It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.

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    The difference in CD's was found that it did not have the carbon flecks. Material was the same animal but appearently the recording industry had higher mfg. standards.

    Chip

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    MasterCrafter OptiBoarder MasterCrafter's Avatar
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    Back in the early 90's you could take a -1.00 poly lens and put it on the ground and whack it with sledge hammers and it would not break. Take a -1.00 today and you can shatter it with a regular hammer.



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    Redhot Jumper Check out the Bayer Website..................................

    Check out the Bayer Website..................................

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    The Bayer and MatWeb sites point out a few things:

    1. MatWeb points out there are different grades of PC purity
    2. Bayer points out there are trade-offs that each manufacturer is going to select from when creating their raw material.
    3. Each lens manufacturer is then going to introduce their own impurities into the final product, depending on what process / QA controls they have in place
    4. Finally, as was pointed out, the Hard-Coating is going to have its own trade-offs and additional impurities introduced

    I've never heard much discussion from any of our vendors concerning these levels of details. Interesting stuff !

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    Master OptiBoarder LENNY's Avatar
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    I noticed that the more expensive poly lenses even sound different when you cut them!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonah View Post
    I have been told by a few "surfacing" professionals that the poly of late is a lot better than that of old......

    Can anyone shed light on this topic?

    Can the abbe value have changed???

    or is there something else I'm just not getting??

    Thanks guys.
    Optima in Connecticut patented a process to reduce distortion typical of most Polycarbs. They have recently licensed their technlogy to Shamir and Zeiss, besides their own Resolution brand. Their key in simple terms that instead of the poly slag being pressed into a cold mold, its vacuum sucked (extruded) into a hot mold. It allows the blank to cool evenly. The second step is to have ABBE matched hard coat (Optima's is patented). You need both, so together they provide a poly that is far clearer than any other that I have seen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sharpstick777 View Post
    Optima in Connecticut patented a process to reduce distortion typical of most Polycarbs. They have recently licensed their technlogy to Shamir and Zeiss, besides their own Resolution brand. Their key in simple terms that instead of the poly slag being pressed into a cold mold, its vacuum sucked (extruded) into a hot mold. It allows the blank to cool evenly. The second step is to have ABBE matched hard coat (Optima's is patented). You need both, so together they provide a poly that is far clearer than any other that I have seen.
    Very good lenses! The range is amazing!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sharpstick777 View Post
    Optima in Connecticut patented a process to reduce distortion typical of most Polycarbs. They have recently licensed their technlogy to Shamir and Zeiss, besides their own Resolution brand. Their key in simple terms that instead of the poly slag being pressed into a cold mold, its vacuum sucked (extruded) into a hot mold. It allows the blank to cool evenly. The second step is to have ABBE matched hard coat (Optima's is patented). You need both, so together they provide a poly that is far clearer than any other that I have seen.
    Is this who you speak of? http://www.optima-hyper.com/frmadvan.htm The seem to talk about polyurethane?

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    Master OptiBoarder rinselberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AustinEyewear View Post
    Is this who you speak of? http://www.optima-hyper.com/frmadvan.htm The seem to talk about polyurethane?
    Here:
    http://www.resolutionlenses.com/index.html

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