P.D.'s For online Purchases

[Barry Santini]

. The law should require 2 things.

#1 Only a licensed professional shall fabricate eyewear

and

#2 The optical is required to measure and service the eyewear before and after its fabricated.

If an online optical can do those 2 things, then there should be no issue.

These are also difficult to substantiate will reduce harm/improve quality/not increase prices.

Let the public have their choice. If people crash into one another as a result, it'll be no different than a drug that recieved approval, only to be removed from the market later.

I'm bettin' no one' s gonna crash where it can be soley deteremined to be the fault of "bad" eyewear.

B

[Flippin Retail]

Great posts by everyone! At the end of the day the patient is free to measure their own PD using the printed ruler and directions provided by the online retailer or they may simply check check the average PD box. Problem solved but we are not aiding or giving them permission to purchase eyeglasses online because we are professionals and understand that prescription eyeglasses are not a commodity product and require much more than any one measurement to perform as intended to correct for visual errors. Regardless of potential liabilities, I will not denigrate what it is that we are licensed to do.
Secondly, the FTC in responding to NC has issued no official ruling. The response was from an advisory board which, in my opinion, was mixing contacts with glasses. Only time will tell.
And finally to Barry you are spot on because we all fall into the category of 'glasses don't kill anybody'.
Tough issues require tough love and I love my patients too much to enable them to make bad choices.

[Diopterman]

Anybody see the Bears Game?

[drk]

Then let's deregulate and eliminate the Rx status of eyeglasses and contacts and obsolete optometry.

Sounds good, Barry. Check back with me in about 20 years and we'll see how far backwards vision care went.

Or try to find an unregulated country and see how they're doing.

[Barry Santini]

Drk:
Prescribing eyewear is not in dispute: this is and should continue ti be by a licensed professional
But what is actually worn by the public, whether it be poorly made by B&M or online, or excellently made by you, is now, more than ever, a personal choice being dictated by both the market and our society.

Yes, its a step backwards. But I can't see sufficient consensus for ANYTHING in our country that possesses a rational underpinning and driven to delivering the best.

You'll hear: "We can't afford that anymore"

This is, unfortunately, probably true. The only real question ahead of us as a society is *why* we can no longer afford it. And that requires alot more clear, unbiased thinking than any of us, including our supposed leaders, are prepared to do.

Sad.

B

[Chris Ryser]

What is theconsumers position......a few samples......................



[/QUOTE]

You'll hear: "We can'tafford that anymore"

This is,unfortunately, probably true. The only real question ahead of us as a societyis *why* we can no longer afford it. And that requires alot more clear,unbiased thinking than any of us, including our supposed leaders, are preparedto do.

Barry..........................has been right in this thread all the way long.

I just wonder how many OptiBoarders have done a little research on the web howthe consumer is reacting to the issue and if there are any reports out thatjudge the situation one way or the other. So I have spent a little time to findout and will post some results.

---------------------------------------------

http://www.eyeglassretailerreviews.com/

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• Buying Glasses Online

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum...t=1007189&p=12

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January 22, 2011 10:54 PM
Get Eyeglasses Online, forQuarter of the Price

By CBSNews ............. .

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/...n7272080.shtml

...........................................

·
Buying glasses online: short sighted thinking from retailers

Posted22 March 2010 11:46am by Matthew Curry with 21comments

http://econsultancy.com/us/blog/5363...from-retailers

[Dave E]

FramesDirect.com I went to this sight and found that they do not ask for a seg ht when you tell them that you ask for a progressive lens witch they only have one Accolade lens that we do not use and there ar is free witch tell me it's not the best ar .

[optical24/7]

Witches at F.D.? I thought it was run by a bunch of warlocks....

[internetmonkey15]

Barry,
I respect your comments - you're one of the more levelheaded individuals on this forum. Now, I'm not talking about progressives or bifocals, just SV. Can you tell me how you or DRK or anyone else on here can justify an extra $300-$400 for say a -2.5 OU? You're telling me you don't use stock lenses?

[DragonLensmanWV]

[Judy Canty]

Seriously!

[Barry Santini]

Barry,
I respect your comments - you're one of the more levelheaded individuals on this forum. Now, I'm not talking about progressives or bifocals, just SV. Can you tell me how you or DRK or anyone else on here can justify an extra $300-$400 for say a -2.5 OU? You're telling me you don't use stock lenses?

Online has helped myself and others to define just what it is we bring to the table in added value.

But first, a rationale comparison has to be made about the specifics of the materials supplied.

Second, we now realize that our fees have really been comprised of the bundle of services, convenience and warranty we supply and include. Mine is two years, all inclusive including scratches.

Plus, there's the tailored professional advice in fitting, selection and fashion for both lens and frame and case.
Plus, we're local and convenient.
I say that if many ofvus here are open minded enough to see reasons why people would do eyewear compkete online, then all we can reasonably ask of the online vendors is the same for the different tier we represent.

B

[internetmonkey15]

That's all good and dandy. But again, look me straight in the eye and tell me that the extra service is worth $300. The guys who comment on here are a small group, do you really believe every optician offers a similar level of service and provides enough differentiation to warrant staying in business? Walk around any Manhattan, LA, Boston etc neighborhood, why are there so many opticals selling the same goods for the same prices and all making $? That's a model ripe for disruption.

What if online went B&M, what would you say to that?

[Judy Canty]

I think they would discover that operating a B&M is more expensive.

Now, will everyone quit feeding the trolls, please.

[Dave E]

how long have you ben selling online and do you only sell online or do you have a store as well

[drk]

Alas, Barry, what people "can't afford to pay for" is
1. professional care
2. regulated quality
3. legal recourse
4. access
5. service

and I could add to the list. It's like buying a baby pig instead of a barbeque dinner.

Is there harm in that? Traditionally, it has been thought so. You could buy glasses off the street in earlier centuries, and try them on to see which one worked, and it has evolved into a pretty high-tech science with a lot of safeguards. What has changed so that we want to go backwards?

A: The internet as a means of communication, and relatedly, globalization ergo reduced regulation and labor cost. That's all. Not some improvement in the optical field.


True story: I have friends who help a nice but barely-english-speaking Chinese national student while she studies in America, and I was told she needed more disposable contacts and was trying to buy them over the internet but was a little confused on the process. I offered to examine her and provide the lenses the "correct" way.

In the office, she showed me her empty box of Acuvue 1-Day Define, (a lens I didn't know existed! http://www.acuvue.com.tw/contact-len...-acuvue-define) that she loved since it made her eyes look bigger (those crazy foreigners). Vistakon confirmed that it is only available offshore (probably Asian markets), but the young lady had no interest in my visitint U.S. lenses.

What was telling is how I had to explain the situation to her, in very basic English: "In America, there is only one way to get contacts: from a doctor with a prescription, for the protection of our people. Now, though, you can buy anything you want from the internet (contacts, drugs, alcohol) without rules."

Well, you can guess which way it went. And who knows how they do it in China? Do they even have optometrists?

Looky:

http://www.pillsprescriptions.com/
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...ol-cover_x.htm

The take home message is this: In a purely free society, people self-regulate. In a society where people can't self-regulate, rules are imposed for civil order.

Let's illuminate: With the new freedom that globalism and easy communication provides, it's up to each website owner (and employee!) to use their own moral judgement. You can see from the above links where that is taking us. How long until artificial contacts or unsterile packaging? How long until horrible quality, unsafe eyeglasses with absolutely no regard to good vision? Are we there already? Can anyone see this not ending badly? We're going to repeat history, here, since we are failing to learn from it.

The realistic fact is that we need some degree of regulation.

[jediron1]

DRK said:

Well, you can guess which way it went. And who knows how they do it in China? Do they even have Optometrists?


Of course she went that way! Look in your dispensary and see how many frames are from China and your wondering why people go on line! Come on you can't have it both ways!

[drk]

That makes no sense.

[Barry Santini]

That's all good and dandy. But again, look me straight in the eye and tell me that the extra service is worth $300.

You asked me to explain, or at least answer this same point above. And when I think I have, you *ask* me again, this time couched in (No really!).
In situations like this, you sound like some customers who want an explantion for why they can't see, but don't want to accept the answer.

The guys who comment on here are a small group, do you really believe every optician offers a similar level of service and provides enough differentiation to warrant staying in business? Walk around any Manhattan, LA, Boston etc neighborhood, why are there so many opticals selling the same goods for the same prices and all making $? That's a model ripe for disruption.

Yes, I agree. And it is more prevalent than most of the industry is willing to accept.

What if online went B&M, what would you say to that?

They eventually will have to, in order to deliver the essential services and convenience that online alone has unbundled.

B

[internetmonkey15]

They eventually will have to, in order to deliver the essential services and convenience that online alone has unbundled.

B

Fair enough Barry about the first point, sorry about that.

[Chris Ryser]

Well, you can guess which way it went. And who knows how they do it in China? Do they even have optometrists?

the School of Optometry & Ophthalmology To Homepage of School of Optometry & Ophthalmology

眼视光学院 As the first to provide undergraduate program combining Ophthalmology and Optometry in China, the School of Optometry & Ophthalmology in Wenzhou Medical College was the first academic institution to conduct research and higher education work on Ophthalmology & Optometry. In 1978, the first post-graduate program majoring in Optics of Ophthalmology was introduced. In 1981, Wenzhou Medical College became the first institute authorized by the Degree Committee of State Council to confer Master’s degree. In 1988, the Dept. of Ophthalmology and Optometry was set up, being the first one in China to train the advanced professionals. In 1992, the Optometry Research Center of Ministry of Public Health was established. In 1997, the School of Ophthalmology & Optometry was set up. In 2000, Joint Program of MS/OD with New England College of Optometry was approved by the Degree Committee of State Council. In 2002, a 7-year under-postgraduate Program of Ophthalmology & Optometry was approved by Ministry of Education and the 5-year program became the Key Construction Specialty in Zhejiang province. In 2003, the key laboratory for visual science was approved by Ministry of Health. In 2006, Wenzhou Medical College was authorized by the Degree Committee of State Council to confer Doctor’s degree. In 2007, approved by Ministry of Science and technology, the base of national key lab－Optometry & Ophthalmology and Vision Science, constructed both by province and Ministry, was set up and became the creative pilot institute of talented person training model of Ministry of Education. In late 2007, Optometry & Ophthalmology was formally taken into the first group of key specialty of general universities. Since 1984, Optometry & Ophthalmology have been consecutively awarded the Key specialty in Zhejiang province and was awarded the ‘very important’ specialty in Zhejiang in 2004. At the same year, it was awarded the Medical Key Construction Specialty by the Health Department of Zhejiang province.................................................... .........

Continue: ------------------> http://www.wzmc.edu.cn/en/schools/ysgxy.php


7 years of learning......seems pretty impressing to me.

[drk]

Very good for them. Now, what's their government going to do? Who knows. I'm sure the Chinese are really worried about counterfeit goods and playing fair. NOT.

But we have our own destinies about which to worry.

[Patrick888]

DRK said:

Well, you can guess which way it went. And who knows how they do it in China? Do they even have Optometrists?

Can you DRK please learn more about the country other than your own? I could not imagine this globe even exists such people who are so ignorant. Internet has provided with sufficient knowledge about the world. World is changing so fast, embrace the CHANGE! Thanks Chris for offering such info.

[KStraker]

I've had to quickly explain to a few customers that I don't work for their online optical. How many of these cheap people actually have paid you to take a pd or service internet glasses? Has anyone had success charging 50.00 for a service package on a pair of 15.00 glasses?

[optical24/7]

I've had to quickly explain to a few customers that I don't work for their online optical. How many of these cheap people actually have paid you to take a pd or service internet glasses? Has anyone had success charging 50.00 for a service package on a pair of 15.00 glasses?

I know an optician that got the pleasure of a bad yelp review for charging 20 bucks! Charge or don't touch them at all, either way you're the bad guy..