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Thread: Glasses for an airline pilot

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by marquette42 View Post

    I often hear inexperienced or poorly educated opticians say pilots can never wear polarized. There is little farther from the truth. There certainly are a segment of the piloting community who would have their flight performance hampered by polarized, but to make a blanket statement that no pilot should ever wear polarized is incorrecr.



    Australian Government.........Civil Aviation Authority,

    2.1.13 Sunglasses
    Glare is often a cause of significant discomfort when flying above cloud or when flying intothe sun. Sunglasses may be required in such circumstances.
    There are two basic factors to consider when selecting sunglasses, namely the frame andthe lenses.
    Any spectacle frame reduces the field of vision. Narrow frames that carry large lenses aredesirable. The most critical problem with frames arises from the presence of wide sidearmswhich significantly impair the peripheral visual field.
    Sunglass lenses should protect the eyes from glare while not adversely affecting the visualcues necessary for safe flight. Accordingly, lenses should not be too dark, and shouldtransmit at least 15% of incident light. The tint used should be "neutral density" (N.D.),that is, a greyish tint that does not distort colour perception or adversely affect red signaldetection and recognition. The recommended tint is N.D.15.
    Lenses of polycarbonate are preferred because of their impact-resistance and ability toabsorb ultra-violet and infrared rays. However, these lenses can scratch readily and anyscratched spectacles should be discarded.
    To ensure that sunglasses provide adequate protection from solar radiation that maydamage the eyes, only those sunglasses that conform to the current Australian Standardshould be worn.
    Sunglasses that conform to the current Australian Standard also meet acceptablestandards for lens quality, frame strength and lens retention.For aviation use, those sunglasses marked "Specific Purpose Sunglasses" arerecommended, provided their frames are appropriate. The lenses of these sunglasseshave been specifically designed for use in conditions of intense glare, such as in flightabove cloud. At high altitude, atmospheric absorption of ultra-violet radiation is reduced.
    Polarising sunglasses should
    not
    be used when flying. The polarising filter interacts with
    the cockpit transparency to produce a distorted and degraded visual field that poses athreat to air safety.
    The pilot who already wears prescription spectacles for flying can choose from a numberof options for glare protection. Prescription sunglasses with N.D.15 lenses can beobtained, or N.D.15 clip-on or flip-up sunglasses may be worn over prescriptionspectacles.
    Pilots who require correction of their near vision only and who wear "look-overs" areadvised to obtain bifocals and a plano upper segment. Clip-on or flip-up sunglasses can
    then be worn. However, the dangers of flip-ups previously mentioned should be recalled.

  2. #27
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter DragonLensmanWV's Avatar
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    I still think polarized lenses are indicated in many piloting instances. Australia's regulations look sloppy, giventheir instances ofrunin words withno spaces. And the FAA's reasoning that with polarized lenses no pilot would be able to see a flash off a possible intesecting airplane is balderdash. Anyone who's ever worn polarized lenses will notice a bright flare from the sun's reflections off windshields, etc. The polarizing does reduce it to a non-blinding glare, but I guess the FAA wants them to be blinded by the reflection.
    DragonlensmanWV N.A.O.L.
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  3. #28
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    Redhot Jumper Polarized lenses are not recommended..........................................

    POLARIZATION
    .
    Polarized lenses are not recommendedfor use in the aviation environment. While useful for blockingreflected light from horizontal surfaces such as water orsnow, polarization can reduce or eliminate the visibility ofinstruments that incorporate anti-glare filters. Polarized lensesmay also interfere with visibility through an aircraft windscreenby enhancing striations in laminated materials and mask thesparkle of light that reflects off shiny surfaces such as anotheraircraft’s wing or windscreen, which can reduce the time a pilot
    has to react in a “see-and-avoid” traffic situation.





    More information:
    FAA publication: Sunglasses for pilots: beyond the image. http://www.faa.gov/pilots/safety/pilotsafetybrochures/media/sunglasses.pdf
    FAA pilot safety brochure: Pilot vision. http://www.faa.gov/pilots/safety/pilotsafetybrochures/media/Pilot_Vision.pdf






  4. #29
    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
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    Ah this ol BS drug up again. There is ZERO chance of eliminating 100% of reflections from aviation traffic. NONE. As far as the modern avionics suite, I have yet to find a SINGLE instrument that has ever 'blacked out' due to cross polarization, although I don't doubt there are some that might to a greater or lesser extent. These "warnings" are a silly fear tactic created by those who sit in cubicles writing manuals (but don't actually fly) trying to sound intelligent. The overwhelming population of pilots I've talked to about this at any of the local FBOs, glider ports, ANG or AF bases, or out at the Itnl prefer polar lenses to non. But by all means, feel free to keep parroting the same old out of date manuals and archaic regs.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uilleann View Post
    Ah this ol BS drug up again. There is ZERO chance of eliminating 100% of reflections from aviation traffic. NONE. As far as the modern avionics suite, I have yet to find a SINGLE instrument that has ever 'blacked out' due to cross polarization, although I don't doubt there are some that might to a greater or lesser extent. These "warnings" are a silly fear tactic created by those who sit in cubicles writing manuals (but don't actually fly) trying to sound intelligent. The overwhelming population of pilots I've talked to about this at any of the local FBOs, glider ports, ANG or AF bases, or out at the Itnl prefer polar lenses to non. But by all means, feel free to keep parroting the same old out of date manuals and archaic regs.
    Hey......I didn't get a HARUMPH outta you!!

  6. #31
    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
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    Oh snap...you're right! ;)

  7. #32
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    Time for that Trifocal!!!

  8. #33
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    There are two good reasons for polarized lenses to be counter indicated a) poorly designed LCD instruments, yes there are some out there that are designed with cross-polarization and b) swept canopies that lead to distortion when looking through a polarized lens.

    These are both valid points and should be taken into account. The same can be said for motorcylists. I work in Harley country and some riders have problems with how their face shields and polarized lenses interact. However, just because some have issues doesn't mean all motorcyclists will. Again it's about asking the right questions and informing the patient of things to be aware of.

    But the total elimination of glare from a reflective surface shows how little the person who wrote it understands polarization, I won't even comment about an optician using it as basis for an arguement against polarization in all of aviation.

  9. #34
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    Crier Polarized don't work on the MD-80.......................................

    Quote Originally Posted by marquette42 View Post

    But the total elimination of glare from a reflective surface shows how little the person who wrote it understands polarization, I won't even comment about an optician using it as basis for an arguement against polarization in all of aviation.




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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by warriordriver
    Ive been looking at polarized sunglasses,

    Polarized don't work on the MD-80. The windows get obscured and the digits of the DFCG look inop.

    Go to Costco and buy several. Try um and return the ones that don't work.
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  10. #35
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    I recently made bifocal rimless lookovers for a presbyopic commercial pilot who flies large passenger jets. He needs no distance correction, but his instruments are at intermediate and still needs full near correction for doing documentation. Used Trilogy D28 with bridge set very high in lenses giving uninterrupted distance vision and 13mm of intermediate for full view of instruments with 8mm seg height for full near correction. Uses these for night flying only. Will do a tinted pair later as a franklin for day time use. If ED trifocals were still available would have used those.

  11. #36
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    Blue Jumper

    Quote Originally Posted by Murray O'Brien View Post

    If ED trifocals were still available would have used those.


    E-D Trifocals
    The seldom heard of and less used E-D trifocal (from Carl Zeiss Vision) consists of a distance correction in the entire upper half of the lens. The intermediate correction is in the lower portion of the lens with a segment line that goes all the way across the width of the lens. It also has a flat-top segment containing the near add located within the bottom zone. The E-D trifocal is good for patients who may need a wide field of intermediate vision and who also need to see clearly at both distance and near.
    Spend time with your patients, ask questions, and listen carefully to their needs. As you do, you will find plenty of opportunities to solve their uncommon vision problems with uncommon lenses.

    Steven Robbins is Department Chair for Vision Care Technology at Tyler Junior College in Tyler, TX.

  12. #37
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    Yep, the ED trifocal was a handy lens. R.I.P. ED trifocal along with Sola Optical lens casting in Adelaide South Australia. R.I.P. the Australian optical manufacturing industry :(

  13. #38
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  14. #39
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    The Ole Master of cut and paste strikes again!

    Chris,

    Have you ever flown a plane? Have you ever spent time talking with pilots? Have you ever taken the time to get out of the late 50's and 60's which you seem to be stuck in, and learned anything new? Are you fearful that some of us may learn that polarized lenses are actually OK for most pilots and may not buy your outdated "Micro Tint" system?

    Have you ever worked in Australia?

    What is your motive?
    Last edited by Diopterman; 08-20-2011 at 07:12 PM.

  15. #40
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    In defense of Chris...............

    I believe Chris is trying to be informative, and after all this is an international site viewed by O's, the general public from all over the world. Aviation rules, will vary from country to country. Guidelines, and recommendations will also vary.

    I strongly believe that if a product could interfere with anyone's ability to function in an occupation, especially ones where, not only their own lives, but the lives of others are at risk................the product should not be used. Just because a pilot may be flying a specific plane daily, that doesn't mean it's the only plane they fly, or may fly, in their career.

    Locomotive engineers are also not allowed(in Canada) to use polarized lenses, and I've often thought they would benefit using them, due to the consistent sources of natural polarized light, and the lower altitude that they "fly" at.....

  16. #41
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    Redhot Jumper Insult is not my style............

    Quote Originally Posted by uncut View Post

    In defense of Chris...............

    I believe Chris is trying to be informative, and after all this is an international site viewed by O's, the general public from all over the world. Aviation rules, will vary from country to country. Guidelines, and recommendations will also vary.


    Thank you uncut, I am used to do a lot of research and the information I come up with is the one I post. It has nothing to do with rude people as the one posted above. I have been trying to find an airline manual but can not dig one up. I have been shown the one of Air Canada a few years back which states that their pilots have to wear and use G15 lenses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diopterman

    Chris,

    Have you ever flown a plane? Have you ever spent time talking with pilots? Have you ever taken the time to get out of the late 50's and 60's which you seem to be stuck in, and learned anything new? Are you fearful that some of us may learn that polarized lenses are actually OK for most pilots and may not buy your outdated "Micro Tint" system?

    Have you ever worked in Australia?

    What is your motive?


    I usually do not even answer rude peoples post's, however this one smells of insult from the first word to the last. So I am going to leave it at that.
    Last edited by Chris Ryser; 08-21-2011 at 03:18 AM.

  17. #42
    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diopterman View Post
    Chris,

    Have you ever flown a plane? Have you ever spent time talking with pilots? Have you ever taken the time to get out of the late 50's and 60's which you seem to be stuck in, and learned anything new? Are you fearful that some of us may learn that polarized lenses are actually OK for most pilots and may not buy your outdated "Micro Tint" system?

    Have you ever worked in Australia?

    What is your motive?
    Rude and insulting? Perhaps you would be better served to answer Diopterman's question as it does have direct correlation to the topic. The boards here are rife already with regurgitated nonsense that others expect you should take on blind faith. Despite their being mounds of evidence to the contrary. If you genuinely are in fact attempting to be helpful, first hand experience with the lenses and environment this thread relates to. And even then - realize your own experience will not be that of everyone else.

    Attachment 7967Attachment 7968Click image for larger version. 

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    When soaring last weekend, none of the gauges, nor the polycarbonate canopy exhibited anything near a black-out state, or for that matter were even greyed out. Traffic at 15-20 miles was perfectly visible (extremely easily actually), as was sun glint off the wings/fuselage/windscreen etc. of said traffic. Obviously there will be odd cases that will contra-indicate the use of polar lenses, but to state blindly that no pilot should ever wear them because a government suggestion from 50 years ago said so is doing noone a favor.
    Last edited by Uilleann; 08-22-2011 at 05:20 PM. Reason: missed a space...

  18. #43
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    Beautiful pics!, Uilleann......................what type of camera and filter did you use?

  19. #44
    Master OptiBoarder rbaker's Avatar
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    I've taken thousands of photos both on the ground and in the air with a polorized lens filter. I have never paid the slightest attention to the orientation of the filter and all the photos come out just fine. Quite frankly, I don't think it makes any difference.

  20. #45
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    Redhot Jumper It now turns out that you are not an airline pilot, you are a glider pilot...........

    Quote Originally Posted by Uilleann View Post

    Rude and insulting? Perhaps you would be better served to answer Diopterman's question as it does have direct correlation to the topic.



    I have no intent of answering rude people who in my opinion are un-educated and have a primitive mentality and attitude.

    It seems that nobody cares to follow the subject of the original question and title of this thread which is:

    "Thread: Glasses for an airline pilot ".

    It now turns out that you are not an airline pilot, you are a glider pilot, which is a hobby affair. You have a wonderful hobby, but I would not want to be your passenger if you'd be flying a 737 from Arizona to Miami tomorrow, without any additional and complex training on your part.

    And it is not fair to make a judgment on government regulations without being a certified professional, be it Australia, the UK or the USA.

    The instrumentation of a glider plane as can be seen on your very nice pictures. They are plain basic, 6 of them.

    Airspeed indicator

    Attitude indicator

    Altimeter

    Turn coordinator

    Horizontal situation indicator

    Vertical speed indicator




    History: These six so-called primary instruments were positioned slap in front of the pilot, where he or she couldn't miss them, while other gauges like the engine instrumentation was clustered around them. To begin with, there weren't many other gauges, but aircraft kept getting more and more complex, and as time passed there was further standardisation, and engine instruments, for example, began to be placed near the center of the panel. This was an important development, because it made it possible for pilots to be taught a scanning method that worked in every aircraft, and commercial pilots repeated this so often that it became second nature.

    However, as more time passed and aircraft became more complex, additional flight instruments found their way onto panels, and the instrument scan became more and more complex, making a second pilot essential. Examples of these new instruments include Omega, Loran, INS, dual VOR and ILS instruments, extra ADF receivers and such wonderments as doppler navigation systems. Before long, it wasn't uncommon for an airliner to have a couple of dozen separate dials on the center instrument panel, and eventually the proliferation of gauges became so great that a third crew member, the Flight Engineer, had to be added, just to keep track of what the power plants were up to at any given moment.

    However, as more time passed and aircraft became more complex, additional flight instruments found their way onto panels, and the instrument scan became more and more complex, making a second pilot essential. Examples of these new instruments include Omega, Loran, INS, dual VOR and ILS instruments, extra ADF receivers and such wonderments as doppler navigation systems. Before long, it wasn't uncommon for an airliner to have a couple of dozen separate dials on the center instrument panel, and eventually the proliferation of gauges became so great that a third crew member, the Flight Engineer, had to be added, just to keep track of what the power plants were up to at any given moment.

    See a lot more including pictures at: http://www.flightsim.com/main/howto/glass/glass.htm


    So I would suggest that when discussing vision problems or vision solutions for certain professions does follow what this profession is really doing, and not steer opinions towards a side branch of the same which could be less complex.
    Furthermore, professional airline pilots have their home base usually close to a large commercial airport and will buy their glasses at a B+M store somewhere around home, or in Hong Kong.



  21. #46
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter DragonLensmanWV's Avatar
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    I have a FedEx 747 pilot that loves his polarized lenses and has no trouble.
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  22. #47
    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
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    Oh Chris - how is it that you've come to be SUCH a douche? As with most all of my educational, vocational and "hobby" experience, I have mentioned some of it here over the years, but not ALL of it. I fly sailplanes as an incredibly enjoyable experience when time and life allow. However your assessment that this is the only type of A/C I fly, or have ever flown is - just like the rest of your analysis in the course of this thread (and many others here sadly) - is patently false. But hey - if your selling your product to the masses...who cares right?

    Oh and by the way - your avionics list is completely wrong. You could have said: Airspeed indicator, Vert speed-A, Vert speed-D, G meter, Alt and Flight computer, and been a bit closer. I'll leave you to do the research and figure out which is which. The D-radio was out of view but it was just as clear via polar suns as everything else.

    The pictures were taken with my cell phone camera and no filter - to do nothing more than share the experience and my own love of flight with others here perhaps interested in that aspect. The DG 1000 we were up in happens to belong to two of my good friends (and patients) who fly Boeing and Airbus A/C for United and Delta. Both happen to wear polar suns as well as non when they fly depending on particular A/C type and conditions. The day was good, if not a bit bumpy, with fair lift and some awesome ridge soaring. Almost tangles with a couple of nuts up in their powered para-sails (three wheeled lawn mowers!)

  23. #48
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    Geeze and you fellas thought I was getting nasty.

  24. #49
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    The whole point I believe that needs to be made here is that as the optician, you need to ask your patient lots of questions, and get to know them, just like you would any patient. Weed out what the individual patient wants/needs/desires and make your spectacles accordingly! Chip you hit it right on the first response of the whole thread. 50 years might be enough experience eh?

  25. #50
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    Just fit a 767 Captian

    Searched for an ED or FD trifocal without success ended up with a ex-trifocal and he loves it. "Best he has ever had" he claims. He says landing is the most critical time for him visually. The FD or ED would have been better if any one knows if it is possible to get these or a bunch of uncut blanks please let me know.
    "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." Jonathan Swift

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