General public opinions abouit online glasses

[charan]

this local forum i get to speak to people, this is what people think when they buy glasses online.

I'm not an optician but will say the instructions from this company were very straight forward and simple. There was nothing hidden or misrepresented by the compay and was up front with my wife during the whole process. I took the mesurements for her ( you should have seen me with the calipers ) and she picked out two pairs of glasses she liked. One pair of normal and one for the sun. They advised her that the style she picked was not suited for her perscription and that she would have to pick another style.

The glasses showed up as promised however one of the lenses was not correctly ground. She contacted the company and a new set was ordered. They told her to just put the wrong glasses back in the box and use the mailing slip included. She waited two days to mail the wrong ones back and couldn't believe that the new ones were Fedex'd that morning. The company just took her word for the mistake and sent a new pair overnight even before they got the wrong pair back. They told here that the mistake was made at the factory in Calgary and took full responsibility.

I don't know about anyone here but that kind of service is refreshing. They never promised on the web site that a new pair would be Fedex'd but it was a nice touch.

They will be getting our business again especially after over promising and even further over delivering. No offence Optician but I can see how your industry is concerned with this kind of competition and service. It's hard to compete with on line sales these days as it seems the store front operation is getting harder to manage. I do like talking to people face to face I'm purchasing from but I'm only willing to spend so much on what I perceive as extra attention and service. With such a large discrepancy between prices face to face interactions will be limited to the original eye exams.

BTW, the lenses are made in Calgary and shipped out of Vancouver. My wife also had an eye exam prior to purchase by an optition locally and trusted that the Clearly Contacts optitions were qualified to fill the order. Yup they messed up the one lense but like a good company will do made corrections without excuse or cost.

With respect to you and your profession Optician why is this not a good thing/deal?? I basically duplicated what I already have. I have 3 pair all from an eyeglass store which all cost me around $400- $500. And I wanted a pair for riding. As the instructions guide you through the steps I simply entered the prescription strength and all the other info that was printed on my current glasses. Now I have a pair to take in the woods and boating and if they get sat on or dirt flung at them I wont be too worried.

how do u even convince people who think this way? its almost frustrating i'm running out of examples.

[Chris Ryser]

this local forum i get to speak to people, this is what people think when they buy glasses online.
how do u even convince people who think this way? its almost frustrating i'm running out of examples.

You can not convince people that something is bad if they had a super good expierience with this so called bad entity.

You have to accept the online opticals of being here to stay. The bad economy has magnified the speed with which they are storming forward with their sales figures. Their websites performances, their sales tool, have increased another 20% to 30% and so must have followed their sales.

We have to find a solution to be able to stay commercially alive without being pushed over the cliff. It always comes back to charge professional fees instead of selling by a ball park multiplier and then do the after services for free, (while they have been pre-paid).

Some of the largest retail chains right now are having financial difficulties and have been put on hold deliveries by some of their suppliers, as the rumors fly. So maybe its time to really and seriously reflect what is in the near future.

[optical24/7]

You worry about online when you can go down to any WalWart and get a complete pair for 29 bucks? Or JCpenys $1 frame offer, not to mention all the regional and local small chains and independents that do the same or similar pricing. There's pleanty of room at the bottom if that's the market you are going after. There's a budget market, a middle market and an upper end market, pick one you wish to cater to.

[John@OWDC]

OK I am totally confused...
This person had a great experience, got good value for their money, was happy with the final product received, would tell others about their experience as being positive, spent some time and actually gave some thought to writing and posting their understanding of the market and the products and you write:

"how do u even convince people who think this way? its almost frustrating i'm running out of examples."

Convince them of what?
If it sounds like a duck...

Are you offended because this individual states a supported position that in his opinion you are irrelevant?

This is the same old head in the sand position which is driving this quasi-profession to its rapid death.
Keep it up folks.

My own father was a draftsmen. At one time he was drafting supervisor for thirty (YES 30) draftsmen for just one mid-sized company. The room was huge and every guy had his own full size drafting table. In 1971 those guys were important, every little change, every little update, every little engineering tweak required their expertise. You know how many people do that job now? One (YES 1) with a computer and a single desk and they accomplish in seconds what they took hours to do.

Once upon a time typewriter repairmen were important too.

Folks, we are on the list for extinction.
Not today, not tomorrow, not next week, not next month but within 10-20 years we will be done for.

Think not?
Yeah, and I bet you think you are in health care too!

There will be a need for the advanced practitioner (not "optician") who can work with complex prescriptions and problem solve.
The future lies not in opticianry but in an advanced level of optical understanding similar to optical engineering.
An area I admittedly could not enter because I am just not that smart.

[Bejeezus]

OK I am totally confused...
This person had a great experience, got good value for their money, was happy with the final product received, would tell others about their experience as being positive, spent some time and actually gave some thought to writing and posting their understanding of the market and the products and you write:

"how do u even convince people who think this way? its almost frustrating i'm running out of examples."

Convince them of what?
If it sounds like a duck...

Are you offended because this individual states a supported position that in his opinion you are irrelevant?

This is the same old head in the sand position which is driving this quasi-profession to its rapid death.
Keep it up folks.

My own father was a draftsmen. At one time he was drafting supervisor for thirty (YES 30) draftsmen for just one mid-sized company. The room was huge and every guy had his own full size drafting table. In 1971 those guys were important, every little change, every little update, every little engineering tweak required their expertise. You know how many people do that job now? One (YES 1) with a computer and a single desk and they accomplish in seconds what they took hours to do.

Once upon a time typewriter repairmen were important too.

Folks, we are on the list for extinction.
Not today, not tomorrow, not next week, not next month but within 10-20 years we will be done for.

Think not?
Yeah, and I bet you think you are in health care too!

There will be a need for the advanced practitioner (not "optician") who can work with complex prescriptions and problem solve.
The future lies not in opticianry but in an advanced level of optical understanding similar to optical engineering.
An area I admittedly could not enter because I am just not that smart.

Sadly, this is not only a well written and thought out post, but probably the most true thing I've seen about the optical industry in a while. As an optician for 20 years, I recently started working on my cisco/networking certifications. I hate to admit it, but I'm tired of trying to convince people that it's better to come here and drop $400.00 when they can get what they perceive < incorrectly of course > as the same thing for $100 or less up the road or online. I suppose I'm getting a little jaded but there it is.

[charan]

i dont know why Opticians give up like this? you guys know damn well that when the customer buys their glasses online at one point or another they have to bring that pair back to an Optician to get it adjusted, they are not gonna mail it in, if you make the right suggestions to people I see no reason why people would buy their glasses online.

In my opinion the online sales are usually for people who want that spare pair for odd uses, for their primary glasses they still go to an Optician.

[Chris Ryser]

They will be getting our business again especially after over promising and even further over delivering. No offence Optician but I can see how your industry is concerned with this kind of competition and service. It's hard to compete with on line sales these days as it seems the store front operation is getting harder to manage. I do like talking to people face to face I'm purchasing from but I'm only willing to spend so much on what I perceive as extra attention and service. With such a large discrepancy between prices face to face interactions will be limited to the original eye exams.

The worlds largest supplier has covered their back by taking over "FramesDirect". They now cater to the consumer 100%, which means through the B&M stores, the large chains and directly on line through one of the largest on line dealers. Just watch them in a couple of years gobbling up the shares of coastal which will make them the worlds largest online service retail optical. The people running the largest optical corporation are the world champions of optical corporation chess.

you guys know damn well that when the customer buys their glasses online at one point or another they have to bring that pair back to an Optician to get it adjusted, they are not gonna mail it in,.............

Yes they will bring them in to adjust............they are also told by the onliners to do that, like get the PD first, and get the hand on service from the ECP.

Second pair first and if service is good, also the first pair and then go to optician for adjustments and advise.

John is so right.......................you can not fight a huge pricing gap that is immensely advertised on any ever just faintly optical smelling website.

[coupe]

Chris,
Care to spill the beans on which chains are on "hold"status. Maybe using a different word than thier real name. It just may give some ECP's an idea of how hard things are in thier area.

[FVCCHRIS]

Happy Trails to you............... I would like to know what Optometry schools are teaching their students that are in the pipeline what they can expect to be doing to earn a living when they get done with their degrees? The completely automated and autorefracted offerings will be available soon to those same On line spectacle purchasers. I am so glad that I will be reaching retirement about the same time my chosen profession becomes a lesson in technology and computer history. :(

[Patrick888]

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[Patrick888]

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[John@OWDC]

You say:

i dont know why Opticians give up like this?

After you say: "how do u even convince people who think this way? its almost frustrating i'm running out of examples."

I do not read "giving up" in to anything anyone has written except you. Sorry, but in my opinion you are missing the importance of this by a kilometer. It is NOT about the second pair, or spare pair anymore but about an entire shift in the industry. The recent changes (Eyeglasses.com and VSP) are opening the door to changes we have neither anticipated or know how to react to. If you believe this is a small part of the business or just a minor annoyance I believe you are sadly mistaken.

The interesting part is trying to imagine the future. If the independent store has to compete does it mean the end of the absurd mark-ups we are forced to build in for insurance (here in the US)? Are we going to have to put serial numbers on frames and track if we made a pair and what services we will provide for them? Will the frame companies have to react with lower costs to the independents? Is this really the end of the optical retail store as we know it today? Is this the end of stupid expensive lenses, the ones we are supposedly paying for the R&D for? Is it the end of "frame reps"?

Seriously, don't you find yourself thinking, "Hmmm, $650 dollars sure is a lot for a pair of glasses."
Frames are made by the billions in China for pennies.
Lenses are just pieces of molded plastic spit out by the thousands.

[Barry Santini]

You say:

After
Seriously, don't you find yourself thinking, "Hmmm, $650 dollars sure is a lot for a pair of glasses."
Frames are made by the billions in China for pennies.
Lenses are just pieces of molded plastic spit out by the thousands.

John:

No.

I gotta think that those who share your viewpoint really haven't/don't value what they bring to the table. I know the higher-quality frames I offer do not cost "pennies" to make in china. Neither do the lenses.

I think any ECP whois threatened by online has already lost the war.

Sad.

B

[John@OWDC]

Barry,

You simply cannot argue that glasses are a few pieces of bent wire fastened to a few pieces of curved plastic!
THAT IS ALL THEY ARE!
You cannot deny that almost every frame from the big manufacturers Safilo, Marchon, Charmant, Luxottica are all made in China.
There is NO difference in the quality of a frame with a designer name vs. one without when they come from the same factory, off the same exact line and are made from the exact same materials.
Just because we pay $60 to $100 dollars for a frame does not mean that it cost that to make.

Put your frame and lenses through a backward chain process in the current marketplace.
You have to build in: your pay, ALL your business costs, insurance loss, the frame reps pay, the lens reps pay, the labs costs, the manufacturers costs, the manufacturers advertising and promotion costs, the stock holders cut, and the list just goes on and on...

What happened to the Mom and Pop store and "downtown"? They went out of business when Walmart cut out all the middle-men and they were able to buy at low costs and pass the savings on to consumers. They broke the traditional model, took control of the entire process from start to finish and caused a paradigm shift in business.

I understand and I really do respect your position on the non-intrinsic "value" you provide and the non-intrinsic "value" in offering a quality product. That does not change the fact that many of the products that we sell every day are so packed with built in costs that are NOT directly related to the intrinsic value of the product that low-cost competition is becoming a real danger. I think it is a real mistake to underestimate the power, influence and intelligence behind the on-line retailers.

I am always willing to admit I could be wrong and all we are expressing here are opinions. However if you think that optical is going to look just like it does today ten years from now I think you are going to be in for quite a shock.

Barry, oddly enough when I wrote:
There will be a need for the advanced practitioner (not "optician") who can work with complex prescriptions and problem solve.
The future lies not in opticianry but in an advanced level of optical understanding similar to optical engineering.
An area I admittedly could not enter because I am just not that smart.

It was with you in mind as a model!

John

[Barry Santini]

John:

I appreciate the attribution, and I still stand by those words.

But reducing what we/us do to "glasses are a few pieces of bent wire fastened to a few pieces of curved plastic! THAT IS ALL THEY ARE!"
is, IMHO, simplifying things...just a bit!

B

[optilady1]

The question isn't "am I in a health care profession", the question is, do my patients perceive me as such? When I worked at the LC, people saw me as a retailer of glasses. Working in the office I'm at now, my patients see a health care provider and eyeglass expert. The percentage of people might be shrinking, but there are always going to those who want their eyeglass purchase experience to be sitting in my dispensary, and not in their computer chair at home.

[braheem24]

Why fear the simplification?

Physicians charge for a 5 minute opinion.
Surgeons charge for a thread.
Pharmacists charge a chemical.
Opticians charge for metal and plastic.

Take the professionalism out of any of the above and you have something of no value left.

[Barry Santini]

"and not in their computer chair at home."

Correction: Sofa + IPad

[kaypaula]

I'm not the least bit worried. I work in a fairly large medical practice. My patients WANT and need me, I spend quite a bit of time with them. They value my opinion, something they cannot get online. I shower them with attention, we go over details, we address visual medical issues-- we gossip and chat. You can't get that online and they don't want online glasses. For the most part. Yes, I do have a few patients from time to time that do want their RX and don't need me in the equation. Fine. I'm okay with that. I'm hoping they have a good experience online but they know I'm here if they don't. I can see a bit of a shift in our profession but I don't really think it will affect certain opticals all that much. Some, yes. The chains, probably. I doubt it will shut them all down either.
Had a patient just last week that brought me her own frame she purchased from Frames Direct (a frame I currently have on the shelf so that was a bit disconcerting) so that I could take her seg height for her online glasses order. I know this will happen more and more over the next several years, but not enough to make my job go away. Bottom line, the human factor is gone with online glasses and lots of people (most of my patients) need AND enjoy that.
Paula

[charan]

i feel the census that people who are almost close to the retireing age, have given up or dont really beacuse they're gonna be out of the industry, but for us who need to work another 30-35 years still need to figure this out, its really sad to see Opticians starting to sound like the regular joe who's always been saying the glasses are just a piece of wire and molded plastic, if thats the case I want you to justify all those years when YOU charged people 300-400 minimum a pair for glasses, you are also forgetting the overhead costs.

[finefocus]

i feel the census that people who are almost close to the retireing age, have given up or dont really beacuse they're gonna be out of the industry, but for us who need to work another 30-35 years still need to figure this out, its really sad to see Opticians starting to sound like the regular joe who's always been saying the glasses are just a piece of wire and molded plastic, if thats the case I want you to justify all those years when YOU charged people 300-400 minimum a pair for glasses, you are also forgetting the overhead costs.

But that is all they are, just as the human body is a jar of water and a few chemicals, and a computer is... well, you get the idea.
Also, what can a pair of glasses do? Make light focus on the retina. For most people, that's it, nothing more (I ignore diplopia, etc.). The things you can accomplish with tints and filters also can be done with non-Rx. So, it isn't from what they are constituted, it's the value added by the lab and the dispenser. They can be described as a commodity, but that's not the end of it.

[kws6000]

" I'm hoping they have a good experience online .."


Had a patient just last week that brought me her own frame she purchased from Frames Direct (a frame I currently have on the shelf so that was a bit disconcerting) so that I could take her seg height for her online glasses order. I know this will happen more and more over the next several years, but not enough to make my job go away.
Paula[/QUOTE]




Why would you hope they have a good experience online???


Wanna bet it wont affect your job long term,if you keep giving these "patients" the measurements ,so they can buy online...

Im assuming that you will be providing the after sales service for these "patients"..?

[kws6000]

i dont know why Opticians give up like this? you guys know damn well that when the customer buys their glasses online at one point or another they have to bring that pair back to an Optician to get it adjusted, they are not gonna mail it in, if you make the right suggestions to people I see no reason why people would buy their glasses online.

In my opinion the online sales are usually for people who want that spare pair for odd uses, for their primary glasses they still go to an Optician.

Its all about the money...They will keep buying online as long as storefront opticals will provide the after sales service....

[kws6000]

i feel the census that people who are almost close to the retireing age, have given up or dont really beacuse they're gonna be out of the industry, but for us who need to work another 30-35 years still need to figure this out, its really sad to see Opticians starting to sound like the regular joe who's always been saying the glasses are just a piece of wire and molded plastic, if thats the case I want you to justify all those years when YOU charged people 300-400 minimum a pair for glasses, you are also forgetting the overhead costs.

If you need to work another 30-35 yrs,I would strongly suggest you switch careers.....It is going to get progressively harder to make a living in the optical field.....

Large optical chains have *******ized the business to the point, where in the minds of most people,eyeglasses and contact lenses are just disposible commodities like a ballpoint pen......

[kws6000]

The question isn't "am I in a health care profession", the question is, do my patients perceive me as such? When I worked at the LC, people saw me as a retailer of glasses. Working in the office I'm at now, my patients see a health care provider and eyeglass expert. The percentage of people might be shrinking, but there are always going to those who want their eyeglass purchase experience to be sitting in my dispensary, and not in their computer chair at home.

True,but this is going to be a constantly shrinking number,and storefront opticals will be fighting for a smaller piece of the pie....