Do you strip defective AR coatings ???????????????

[Chris Ryser]

Do you actually strip AR coatings in office? I have had many consumers writing and calling me to find out who would and who could strip their scratched or delaminated AR coatings. What is the reason, that a majority of optical B&M retailers stays away from this task.

[John@OWDC]

I think I have stripped an AR coating about a dozen times in the last ten years.
The most important thing for me is letting them know that there is NO GUARANTEE of any kind that it will work.
If it does (about 90% of the time) then you are the good guy...

I don't think about it as a sale, money, or anything but a goodwill gesture.

Since poly is so prevalent these days you cannot really expect to strip the AR and, "make them in to sunglasses..."

I use glass etching compound which does not seem to be particularly harmful to me. As I understand it that strips ALL the coatings off (scratch included) so you now have an AR free lens that is bound to scratch up within a year at best.

[davelp]

Wow! way to skew a poll! how about, no, because it's a bad practice. I don't tint their old non-ar lenses for a patient because THATS a bad practice too! with the scratches sucking up the tint and standing out like a sore thumb after you tint them, I have never had a patient say they were satisfied with the results. I'm assuming you're selling something.

[Jacqui]

I did when I had the lab. It was more of a goodwill venture than a for profit as I only did 10 - 12 a year.

[opticianbart]

Wow! way to skew a poll! how about, no, because it's a bad practice. I don't tint their old non-ar lenses for a patient because THATS a bad practice too! with the scratches sucking up the tint and standing out like a sore thumb after you tint them, I have never had a patient say they were satisfied with the results. I'm assuming you're selling something.

+1

That being said, I'll do it if someone really really wants it (rather, I'll have my lab do it) - right after explaining that it doesn't always work. Seriously though Chris, while I do enjoy keeping an eye on your posts for interesting info, this poll makes you seem like a shady salesperson who is trying to put anyone who doesn't use something you sell in a bad light. Also, the question on your poll and the question on the post title are different

- Do you strip defective AR coatings ???????????????
and
- Do you strip AR coatings in office ................

are rather different. If the coating is defective, then I'm for completely replacing the lens not stripping it and attempting to recoat the lens.

[Mirror Man]

A great question. Stripping subjects a lens to a lot of stress in the chemical bath and may de-stabalize the underlying hard coat. Poly ,hi-index and trivex are always at risk. Plastic and glass hold up pretty well during the stripping process.

If your doing this for the first time be careful and focus on the task at hand.

I understand CS but how do you make any money color coating old lenses for sunwear? I suppose the same old frame is also re-used? Would your customer not be better served by a better discount on the second pair with new lenses and a new frame? Just my 2 cents worth.

Good luck

[skt]

used to maybe 10-12 years ago but not anymore with with the newer AR's

[chip anderson]

My need would be too infrequent to keep the material aound. But Oddly all of the labs I use don't offer this and act like it can't be done. They will even make new lenses for a new pair with a coating problem. Have had several occasions that I wished I could do this in-house.
But I have grave reservations about how to recognise the 10% that won't work in advance of trying.

Chip

[BMH]

Chris,

I am wondering do you write back to the consumers you mention and ask them what material their lenses are made out of or perhaps what type of AR was applied to the lenses?

I do strip some AR coatings in house perhaps a bit more than the other posters to this thread. The chemicals are easy to use and if handled properly are not dangerous. Having done quite a few over the years I can tell you that there is a high likelyhood that the lens surface under the AR is also scratched and damaged. Aslo as mentioned, polycarb is a very prevelant lens material used in the USA and poly is always a gamble. I have had it work fine and I've had it turn milky white ruining the lens.

I would never recommend to an Optician that this would be something to use as a retail strategy. I explain to the people that I do it for that there is a high risk of the lens being damaged further and that I will not be replacing their lenses for FREE if it does not work.

I always suggest new lenses at this point. I then go on to explain that there are two basic reasons for an AR coat to fail in such a manner. It was a poor quailty coating in the first place and that the place that provided it for them is not using the best quality available. This opens the door for me to tell them why ours is better and different. Or it has been cared for inproperly and then I offer to teach them the best way to clean thier lenses.

[Chris Ryser]

But I have grave reservations about how to recognise the 10% that won't work in advance of trying.

Chip

These days, as there are versions of strippers available that will do Poly, high index and glass without damaging the lens material you will not need to recognize the 10%. Just use the product that is safe for all.

[sharpstick777]

Boy Chris, is this a marketing attempt to sell more product? no coincidence that you just happen to sell an AR stripper? I would consider this thread advertising since your answers are so skewed.

I don't strip lenses simply because I would never sell an AR that is so low of quality it ever needs to be stripped.

[Chris Ryser]

Chris,

I am wondering do you write back to the consumers you mention and ask them what material their lenses are made out of or perhaps what type of AR was applied to the lenses?


I have had it work fine and I've had it turn milky white ruining the lens.

Actually I do write back and ask...............and most of the times they don't know what material the lenses are.

This above argument is not valid any more. There are now products on the market that do work on any material without damaging them. They are a little slower than the standard stripper that works in 4 to 5 seconds, they take a couple of minutes longer but so what, but the lenses have been save.

Furthermore when stripping a CR39 lens, and by removing the hardcoat underneath the AR coating, you most probably also remove all the scratches situated in the hard coat, and have a new lens surface without scratches.

[Chris Ryser]

sharpstick, ..............................actually I invented and made the first ever commercially sold AR stripper and advertised it in in 1985.

I consider to be pretty good and knowing on this subject. I take your objection and accusation as offensive and insulting, as there has been not one commercial mentioning from my side. AR strippers are available from many sources and makes. Just happens that I know more about than most.

[davelp]

Wow, you invented Armor All? That's what the DOC I used to work at used

[For-Life]

My lenses rarely, if ever craze. If they do, it tends to be in the warranty period (usually first 6 months. It would have to be a defect). After that, they tend not to craze, because they are just darn good coatings.

For competitors, when people come to me, they are looking for new lenses, because they have a new RX. They are dissatisfied with the old, cheap coatings the competitors used and that is why they come to see me. But they do not come to get new lenses with their old RX.

The interesting thing is I can see a market for this product, because the people who want to save 3 year old lenses are people that are price sensitive. Price sensitive people tend to shop from discount stores that tend to use poorer coatings. It is a viscious cycle. Pay for a good coating and they will stay. It amazes me how many people walk into my store with 10 year old lenses they purchases from me without a scratch. Some would argue that the product is too good then. But I feel that it is my job to try to give them the best.

[Speed]

Greased Lightening. From any grocery store. Over night. Mild enough that it usually does not harm the lenses.

[EyeMaster]

As stated by others, major laboratories in the US usually do not strip AR. If asked they will usually say “because we can’t”. It’s really not that the AR product can’t be removed but rather that the lab policy won’t allow them to do so.

The original AR process weakens the lens a bit but the lens still meets industry standards and is certified as such. If the AR is removed (recoated or not), that lens has been modified and no longer meets industry standards. Should this now modified lens be re-dispensed and broken, resulting in eye injury, the doctor/optician and the laboratory removing the AR coating would be open to a great deal of liability.

An attorney might ask if removal of the AR is an industry accepted practice? If you check with major labs such as EOA, Zeiss, HOYA, etc and told, “we do not remove AR”, that becomes the “Industry Standard”. So if you’re in Canada or another country - no problem, but in this country it’s simply not worth the risk to remove an AR product from any reduced center thickness lens..

[Happylady]

I have done it but not for a while. The ARs we use now are so good that I can't remember the last time we had one craze or badly scratch.

[EyeMaster]

In the old day's you could boil them in a pan of water. I'd think this would still be true especially if the lenses were already crazing. But I wouldn't do it for a patient/customer

[sharpstick777]

As stated by others, major laboratories in the US usually do not strip AR. If asked they will usually say “because we can’t”. It’s really not that the AR product can’t be removed but rather that the lab policy won’t allow them to do so.

The original AR process weakens the lens a bit but the lens still meets industry standards and is certified as such. If the AR is removed (recoated or not), that lens has been modified and no longer meets industry standards. Should this now modified lens be re-dispensed and broken, resulting in eye injury, the doctor/optician and the laboratory removing the AR coating would be open to a great deal of liability.

An attorney might ask if removal of the AR is an industry accepted practice? If you check with major labs such as EOA, Zeiss, HOYA, etc and told, “we do not remove AR”, that becomes the “Industry Standard”. So if you’re in Canada or another country - no problem, but in this country it’s simply not worth the risk to remove an AR product from any reduced center thickness lens..

Great answer... Also, stripping the AR doesn't solve the issue of why the patient wanted AR in the first place. They are back to lenses with large amounts of glare. The only solution is to put them in AR's that don't need stripping.

[Uilleann]

Great answer...The only solution is to put them in AR's that don't need stripping.

Which most of us have been doing for a decade or more already. Sales must really be slow this week. These thinly veiled advertisements on OB stretch credulity in the unbiased nature of the boards. Maybe that's never been the case here after all?

[Chris Ryser]

Which most of us have been doing for a decade or more already. Sales must really be slow this week. These thinly veiled advertisements on OB stretch credulity in the unbiased nature of the boards. Maybe that's never been the case here after all?

noun ,................credulity
willingness to believe or trust too readily, especially without proper or adequate evidence; gullibility.

Gullibility is a failure of social intelligence in which a person is easily tricked or manipulated into an ill-advised course of action. It is closely related to credulity, which is the tendency to believe unlikely propositions that are unsupported by evidence.[1][2]
Classes of people especially vulnerable to exploitation due to gullibility include children, the elderly, and the developmentally disabled.[2]

[Speed]

Actually, looking back at the question, it says defective A/R. No need to strip that. Just send it back.

[braheem24]

So everyone is too high and mighty to remove A.R. for use as a back up pair or none of your business what I do with my glasses pair?

A.R. Does not work for everyone, Learn to disagree accomidate.

I strip AR AFTER I explain to the patient it may ruin the lenses if it does not all come off; therefore I suggest you wait till you have a primary pair. I sell the primary pair and accommodate the patient by removing the AR.

Chris, I need a bottle I'm running low removing A.R. people are selling to anyone walking through the door.

[VTC]

I was not knowing it was possible to "strip" A.R. !!!
I have never heard that before I read this discussion !

The technology of A.R. is so complex that I wonder how it's possible without destroy the lens !