We are expanding and the doc is thinking about putting a lab in our optical shop. I would like to hear anyone's good and bad comments on this? Headache? Profitable? Any tips, insite, words of wisdom?
In Office Lab
We are expanding and the doc is thinking about putting a lab in our optical shop. I would like to hear anyone's good and bad comments on this? Headache? Profitable? Any tips, insite, words of wisdom?
Originally Posted by decm1108
If it were me, I would put in a finishing lab. Get a good computerized edger that does almost everything, tinting tanks, good lensometer, blocker, use a local lab or a lab that will give you a good price on semi finished lenses. This will cut your costs down because they are not finishing the product, edging and putting lenses into frame for which they charge a fee.
Now down side is your going to have to spend an initial investment on this and
have a location in office that is accessible.
If you put in U shaped counters this will make it easier to set up operation. Initial investment probable low 50,000 to high 100,000. If your doing at least 50 jobs a week and 30 you could do in-house then it might be worth it. But remember not much down time can't read that trade mag. Got to get jobs done and checked out all the while your taking care of people wanting to buy. Something to think about.
I would say make sure you dig into the financial aspect of things. I have found on average less than a $10 savings finishing in house when it comes to PAL's and such. SV can be a little more lucrative. So if you "break" the high end PAL, w/ transitions and A/R even at a discount how many more pair must you edge to make up for the loss? Also figure in at least a PT lab tech, additional utilities, supplies, etc.
If it is for service you are looking to cut and edge, that's great because I feel you'll cover your costs over time. I just don't feel there is a huge profit to be made. Just my 2 cents....
Rob
Thanks for the info jediron 1 and rbailen. I will be checking on all the costs.
Dawn
It also gives you control over the finish quality, no arguing about ANSI standards with somebody that doesn't care how picky your trouble pt is.
We've been finishing about 30 pairs a day and its rare to scrap more than or two if any. When we do, a few mouse clicks means a new lens is on the way, hopefully under warranty, no shipping off the frame.
Used equipment can be had for relatively cheap, and often not that complicated to maintain. Repairs are seldom cheap though.
Even if it doesn't make a ton of money, it gives you the chance provide a quicker service and keeps you more connected to the craft of producing the glasses. Too many opticians are being stifled into insurance experts with PD sticks and a set of pliers.
Last edited by Pogu; 04-07-2011 at 07:36 PM. Reason: grammars
Who is going to operate this eqipment?
Finding someone who is a good enough lab tech to be a one-man show AND competent as a fitter/dispenser is not easy. And even the most user-friendly edger doesn't confer the mechanical problem-solving skills needed to run a finishing lab.
I'm in the midst of training an excellent and intelligent associate on both the optical and finishing sides of our office. She's smart and wonderful, but the experience is making me realize just how many elementary things about optics and edging I learned in 1990 that I take for granted. Either finding or training someone to run your lab will be substantially more difficult--and more important--than the equipment cost.
I'm Andrew Hamm and I approve this message.
+1. The best equipment in the world will not make up for a bad operator.
There are rules. Knowing those are easy. There are exceptions to the rules. Knowing those are easy. Knowing when to use them is slightly less easy. There are exceptions to the exceptions. Knowing those is a little more tricky, and know when to use those is even more so. Our industry is FULL of all of the above.
True that. But a great operator can make gold out of bad gear. We have a Briot Accura for crying out loud, and we still do sharp lab work. :)
If you don't have lab experience, I would recommend having a lab tech lined up before purchasing eqipment. Let them be part of the shopping and lab-layout process.
I'm Andrew Hamm and I approve this message.
A monkey could run a Lex1000.
or a Santinelli......
While my previous Santinelli experience is extremely positive, and while I would sacrifice a goat to get one in place of my InAccura, I do not, in fact, believe that the "a monkey can operate it" is necessarily the best approach to starting a finishing lab. We talk a lot around here about the de-valuation of licensed opticianry; I feel much the same way about modern technology's de-valuation of skilled lab work.
A machine can't do complex problem-solving. If you have a lab you should, in my humble opinion, be able to perform routine and slightly-less-than-routine repairs. Your patients will expect that machines = technical skills. Can your Santinelli replace rimless line? Re-thread figure-eight liner? Can it groove lenses manually if the machine refuses to do so due to thinness (I may be projecting my Briot problems with that one). Can it drill out screws and replace them without destroying a frame? Re-cut lenses from one frame into another? Can it do cutom rolls or safety bevels?
If you're going to offer on-site finishing, which I think is a great idea, remember that the operator is far more important than the equipment.
I'm Andrew Hamm and I approve this message.
Isn't the Lex 1000 made by Santinelli (ok, technically Nidek, but still.....)? Or am I thinking of a different edger?
Anyway, a good optician isn't limited by lesser equipment, while what a machine can do is limited by what the operator tells it to do. I'm not sure I expressed that very well, but hopefully you get the idea.
A monkey can run the edger (no matter the edger) only if you don't mind that they will have no clue what to do when something goes wrong, and may, in fact, not even notice when something has gone wrong.
However, the edger is only ONE component of the lab. You'll also need a competent optician to check the lenses for optics and cosmetics (and a lensometer and lamp to facilitate such). And a tracer and blocker, as well as the blocks for the blocker, to run the lenses through the edger. Probably a tint unit for tints, as well as all the appropriate mounting tools, and a competent optician to mount the lenses and be able to understand why certain lenses won't work in certain frames.
There are rules. Knowing those are easy. There are exceptions to the rules. Knowing those are easy. Knowing when to use them is slightly less easy. There are exceptions to the exceptions. Knowing those is a little more tricky, and know when to use those is even more so. Our industry is FULL of all of the above.
All true. This is why I say: get yourself a good tech first, then collaborate with him on putting the lab together.
I'm Andrew Hamm and I approve this message.
Andrew, I come from the era of hand making patterns and AIT Mark V's, (prior to the Deluxe series). Most of what you mention are not edger fuctions, saying that, A Lex1000 will pin bevel, drill, polish, do wraps and groove a lens with a 1.2mm edge. It's almost idiot proof as far as edger fuction goes. You don't need someone with experience to be up and running in no time.
Now doing opticianry work is a different story. Doing custom work like faceting is another skillset. Just like drilling screws out or soldering. But if you want to talk exclusively about edger fuctions, the new equipment is very capable of having a novice run it.. (at least for 98.9% of the jobs going through the avg. dispensary.)
My perspective may be colored a bit by the fact that I'm stuck with a Briot, my fond memories of working with a Santinelli in 2001 fading into the past. Hell, I fondly remember my Weco and Horizon edgers... But my edger is supposed to groove and do multiple safety bevels, and it sometimes just refuses for various reasons. It doesn't happen often, but the fact that I am trained in how to do a lot of this work by hand saves my office thousands of dollars a year on jobs that would otherwise have to be sent out.
My point, I suppose, can be best expressed mathematically:
(experienced tech + bad equipment) > (inexperienced tech + good equipment)
I'm Andrew Hamm and I approve this message.
wfruit...oh just DUH! brain fart here this am..:(
If you have an ICE blocker I would agree that any monkey can operate it, BUT otherwise that Monkey still needs to know how to nuetralize/mark axis and optical centers on an uncut prior to blocking the lens.
...and read and induce prism, and know how to measure for SV, bifocals, trifocals, PALs and occasionally executives, and bench align panto/retro and frame wrap, and final inspect to standards, etc., etc., etc....
I'm Andrew Hamm and I approve this message.
We're discussing running the in office optical edger, not fitting and dispensing of the glasses.
Last edited by David_Garza; 04-09-2011 at 10:44 PM.
Good idea about the used equiptment I will have to look into it. As for a lab tech I would have to hire an experianced tech full time. I think it would be an wise investment especially since I haven't edged in 25 years and none of my current staff have experiance.
Thanks again.
Dawn
You could always get a vintage Weco edger. Just like riding a bike.
I'm Andrew Hamm and I approve this message.
We still use Weco 440's for some of our glass work.....
There are rules. Knowing those are easy. There are exceptions to the rules. Knowing those are easy. Knowing when to use them is slightly less easy. There are exceptions to the exceptions. Knowing those is a little more tricky, and know when to use those is even more so. Our industry is FULL of all of the above.
I'm talking about in-lab final inspection, the work that is done before the finished pair of eyeglasses ever hits the dispensing optician's hands.
I'm not sure why people seem to want to argue with me in this thread, though "argue" is probably too strong a word. I'm not being at all a contrarian; I am a huge fan of dispensaries having their own finishing lab. It is, in fact, what I do. My concern is for owner/operators who know the optical side but not the lab side, who are under the impression that modern finishing equipment is just sort of "fire-and-forget." That may be so for 90% of jobs; but it's that last 10% which will cost you time, money and reputation. No high-tech equipment can match an experienced technician's eye for fine detail and high standards of excellence, nor does the reading of an operations manual create those invaluable things.
Yes; get great gear. I'm pleased to read that people are also looking into the vital imporance of getting great personnel.
I'm Andrew Hamm and I approve this message.
An optical lab is a must anymore because of the increasing cost of lenses. With the consolidation of labs and lens manufacturers the cost of progressives in particular can be more than what i used charge the patient. You will reduce your cost of goods and increase patient service with an in-office lab, both finishing and the small surfacing systems.
But could he make Shakespeare out of it?
DragonlensmanWV N.A.O.L.
"There is nothing patriotic about hating your government or pretending you can hate your government but love your country."
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