This really pushed my patience......

[OptiChick21]

So had the doc bring out a patient to me this morning, a young teenage boy and his Mom. Doc says he was trying contacts but doesn't want to continue, but would like him to get some glasses for driving at the very least.
Doc walks away and I look at their VSP authorization and notice they are not eligible for glasses or contacts until December 2011. Hmmm... So I look back and see he had an exam and a contact lens fitting fee filed to VSP at his last visit in Dec 2009. So since we filed the fitting fee, this pushed his glasses and CL eligibility out 2 years to the end of the year. I explained to Mom and she understood. I offered them our "Value back up package" for $110 complete pkg, but they didnt seem enthralled. I then thought for a minute and mentioned well, we MAY be able to call VSP and see if they could reverse his CL fitting from 2009 and then reinstate his material eligibility. The Mom said sure, try that and we'll look around in the meantime.
So I went and called VSP, they reversed everything and then came back happy to report we were all set to go. Well then they said "Oh, he doesnt like anything you have". Waaa????? OK, well maybe I can help you find you a different color or style? No no, there's nothing. The Mom says, he really doesnt want to even wear glasses. :angry: Oh.
OK, well after explaining he cant order contacts now unless the doctor does a contact evaluation again and that they cant use their VSP at most chain stores either, they still didnt want to get glasses today.
I said remember, the glasses are just for driving only. (Eluding that they arent a fashion statement pair) And they would have been basically free! (No material copays!)
But they left to think about it and I had to sheepishly call VSP back and reverse the reversal! LOL
The worst part is they may decide later on that they do want glasses after all and we'll have to call VSP AGAIN to get the auth's straightened out. Should we even bend over this far backwards???

[NeGlassesGirl27]

Don't you love it when you go the distance like we're always taught, you do what you can to help out the patient and then it's "Oh I don't like anything" :angry:

Thank you for wasting my time and have a great day. Wait, are you sure you don't want a FREE PD with that today?? *rolls eyes*

[BMH]

I understand that you were trying to be nice but you were also undervaluing the doctors and techs time as far as the contact lens fitting and chair time are concerned. I did read that you got it re-reversed back in your favor but that sure seems like a slippery slope to me.

I say you get the "April 2011 Opti-Board Customer Service Award"

I'm sure Steve has a plaque somewhere with your name on it.


:)

[chip anderson]

Is the Rx strong enough to need the glasses for driving? If he can afford to operate an automobile today he can afford to buy the glasses out of his own pocket (a wierd concept in today's world I know). If he doesn't need them to function in everyday life except driving and he and his momma don't care enough to pay for them, why are you worried about them.
I had an old lady come to the office today for an artificial eye. When she was told that medicaid wouldn't pay for it if she was over 19, she left and drove off in her Lexus. You think I'm gonna worry about this?
There area few really needy that need help and most of the others can find money for what they want even if it makes them a one eyed Lexus driver.

Chip

[fjpod]

We've all had a patient like this...but NEED... is a very relative thing. Had a 30 year old plumber today in for a minor red eye. BUCVA 20/60 OD and 20/200 OS, mixed astigmat...While I was examining the red eye, I took a little history and noticed the auto-refraction readings. He had never had an eye examination, never wore glasses and he felt he didn't need to wear glasses because he saw fine at home and at work. He wouldn't even consider them until I said that with his wife's coverage as a teacher, he was eligible for the exam and free glasses. He still wouldn't stay and sit for the exam (refraction). He was going to think about it and get back to me. (It's beside the point, but the guy probably makes more than I do.)

[Striderswife]

. . .even if it makes them a one eyed Lexus driver.

Chip

Bwuhahahaha!! Love it!

I would suggest don't call back again to reverse the initial benefit. I'm surprised they approved it in the first place; once the service has been provided, it can't be "returned" like materials. Someone has to pay for it, even if he didn't end up with contacts after all. The doctor still spent the time and effort to attempt a fitting. :/

[OptiChick21]

Oh don't worry, we weren't just reversing the fitting fee completely, we told the pt if we did reverse the VSP claim then we would have to BILL HER for the eval from 2009.

So I guess that means the glasses wouldnt have been TOTALLY free, but darn near!!!!

Just fyi, the boys script was -1.00 OD and -0.75 with -0.25 cyl OS. I know some people with these types of Rx's try to get by with no glasses, but he really should probably wear glasses or contacts full time, he just "doesnt want to".

Whatever!!!

[NeGlassesGirl27]

The "I don't want to wear glasses" people are the best. You clearly scheduled an exam for a reason, yet you're told you should probably have a pair for driving at night and you decide that you just don't want to wear anything. Sooo what's the point in you coming into the office then?

It's like going to your doctor because you don't feel well, he says you have strep throat, gives you an RX but you don't do anything about it. THEN complain because you're still sick 2 weeks later.

[chip anderson]

Besides what does want to have to do with adults in the real world? There is need, and the rest if fluff.

I've had a lot of days over the last 50 years when I didn't want to go to work. Done a lot of jobs and things that weren't pleasant or enjoyable, but I went and did whatever I had to do.

Patient doesn't want to wear glasses, let him go without, especially if he has proven too wimpy or too cheap to use the alternatives. You can't force contacts, or refractive surgery on people, or glasses either for that matter.

Chip

[DragonLensmanWV]

Wait till he fails his driving eye exam. Bet he won't tell them he wears contacts, if he actually does end up with them.

[NeGlassesGirl27]

Wait till he fails his driving eye exam. Bet he won't tell them he wears contacts, if he actually does end up with them.

And I bet when he's behind the wheel and gets into an accident because he can't see driving during the day or night, he'll be right back to purchase them.

[optilady1]

When I worked at the LC, we had a young woman come in with her children, it was dusky out, with her rx her dr had called in. She was a -12.00 with no glasses or contacts, and she drove herself with her kids in the car. It was just barely out of the range of what we had in blanks, but we did it. She clearly had enough money to afford the car and gas in it, so, what's your brilliant reason for not having glasses?

[DragonLensmanWV]

And I bet when he's behind the wheel and gets into an accident because he can't see driving during the day or night, he'll be right back to purchase them.

No, then they'll sue you.

[listenclose23]

optilady....I think the saddest part is that you had to work at LC

[NeGlassesGirl27]

No, then they'll sue you.

Ah yes..how could I forget that.

[Striderswife]

How can we be responsible if the patient is non-compliant to order corrective lenses (in whatever form)? If we've done the exam, given them options, let them know we sell glasses, and given them a copy of their prescription (which we're supposed to do with each yearly), there's not much else we can do. Like Chip said, we can't force them to purchase glasses.

It's the same if my family doctor gave me blood pressure medication, but I didn't take it, then had a stroke and tried to blame him.

[skt]

we have found here that almost very time we go above and beyond and do something special...it comes back to bite us in the butt(sad to say)

[oxmoon]

I understand your perspective as eyecare people. But before I got into this field I worked as a school psychologist for 30 years, and I can tell you that nobody who has to deal with the intense peer pressure encountered in today's schools wants to wear glasses or let anybody know they need them. Think of it this way. If you were the butt of everyone's unresolved hatreds and feelings of inferiority and knew you could do something to avoid this, you would do that at almost any cost, wouldn't you. Kids that can't see have to deal with what that means, and with some of them it means they miss 90% of what is going on. But the negative peer pressure is so intense that they will put up with that to escape it. In most public schools there is nothing done about the tormenting these kids have to pub up with, and often the teacher is a major contributor to it, because teachers are some of the most mentally unbalanced people there are. All you can really do is try to muster up some sympathy for the situation you find kids in.

I also know about this from personal experience. I was born with extreme astigmatism but did not get any glasses until third grade. I had a beginning teacher for grades 1 and 2 who treated me as if I were retarded, and the kids followed her example. Whether you wear glasses, just can't see or show any kind of weakness, it is an invitation to others to zoom in for the kill.

And while I'm bearing myself here, I will also say that I learned a lot about myself and my history from reading an optiboard threat about bilateral amblyopia started by Lenny. Thanks Lenny and all who particpated in that thread. Optiboard rocks.

[optilady1]

I understand your perspective as eyecare people. But before I got into this field I worked as a school psychologist for 30 years, and I can tell you that nobody who has to deal with the intense peer pressure encountered in today's schools wants to wear glasses or let anybody know they need them. Think of it this way. If you were the butt of everyone's unresolved hatreds and feelings of inferiority and knew you could do something to avoid this, you would do that at almost any cost, wouldn't you. Kids that can't see have to deal with what that means, and with some of them it means they miss 90% of what is going on. But the negative peer pressure is so intense that they will put up with that to escape it. In most public schools there is nothing done about the tormenting these kids have to pub up with, and often the teacher is a major contributor to it, because teachers are some of the most mentally unbalanced people there are. All you can really do is try to muster up some sympathy for the situation you find kids in.

I also know about this from personal experience. I was born with extreme astigmatism but did not get any glasses until third grade. I had a beginning teacher for grades 1 and 2 who treated me as if I were retarded, and the kids followed her example. Whether you wear glasses, just can't see or show any kind of weakness, it is an invitation to others to zoom in for the kill.

And while I'm bearing myself here, I will also say that I learned a lot about myself and my history from reading an optiboard threat about bilateral amblyopia started by Lenny. Thanks Lenny and all who particpated in that thread. Optiboard rocks.

I'm sure in the past kids did tease about glasses. My own mother was born with cataracts which weren't removed until she was 12 and for her whole fourth grade year she had monster sun glasses and had to sit with her desk against the chalk bord. Times have changed, and I don't think this is quite the issue that it was 30 years ago. I do understand it's hard to be different, but most children with average rx's seem to have fun with the process of trying on glasses. I think the key here is this kid was was a teenager, and there ain't nothing you can do to make one happy.

[oxmoon]

I'm sure in the past kids did tease about glasses. My own mother was born with cataracts which weren't removed until she was 12 and for her whole fourth grade year she had monster sun glasses and had to sit with her desk against the chalk bord. Times have changed, and I don't think this is quite the issue that it was 30 years ago. I do understand it's hard to be different, but most children with average rx's seem to have fun with the process of trying on glasses. I think the key here is this kid was was a teenager, and there ain't nothing you can do to make one happy.

This is not a matter of simple teasing. It is brutality, pure and simple, and it is rampant in all schools today. I've only been retired for 10 months and saw it frequently throughout last year and every year. The lower the socioeconomic status, the greater the incidence of this kind of brutality. With minorities it is even worse. The more any group that feels it iis outcast from mainstream society, the more brutal the response when one of the others in their group is perceived as weak. Going around not being able to see and missing out on school stuff is bad, but even worse is missing out on all the social nuances that require decent vision. No child or teenager whould choose to do this just to give some optican a hard time. For them it is perceived as a matter of survival.

[NeGlassesGirl27]

How did this thread go from someone's patience to child brutality?

And if you were a physiologist, you would know that you shouldn't use the "R" word to describe that's how you felt when you wore glasses. Kind of like a patient's mother that told her son he looked like a "Special Ed" student, when he was trying on frames for the 1st time. THAT isn't child brutality..that's PARENT STUPIDITY. A LOT of the reasons kids don't want to wear glasses is because their parents choose the frame for THEM to wear and or the parents make fun of the child right in front of them/me.

Anyways..what were we talking about? :bbg:

[oxmoon]

How did this thread go from someone's patience to child brutality?

And if you were a physiologist, you would know that you shouldn't use the "R" word to describe that's how you felt when you wore glasses. Kind of like a patient's mother that told her son he looked like a "Special Ed" student, when he was trying on frames for the 1st time. THAT isn't child brutality..that's PARENT STUPIDITY. A LOT of the reasons kids don't want to wear glasses is because their parents choose the frame for THEM to wear and or the parents make fun of the child right in front of them/me.

Anyways..what were we talking about? :bbg:

The "R" word as you put it is exactly what I was called in the 2nd grade and it is still used to describe any child who has a full scale IQ and adaptive behavior measure below a standard score of 70 in the state where I live and in many other states. Over the years several children were referred to me for evaluation because of poor classroom achievement who turned out to have near normal IQs when tested. The reason they were unable to achieve was that they couldn't see well enough to do so and knew that if they appeared in school wearing glasses their lives would become unbearable. The reason I am posting all this is to try to explain what was probably going on with the boy who is the subject of this thread.

I have openly stated I am a novice in the optical world who wants to learn from seasoned people in the field and that's why I read this board. But in this discussion I am the seasoned person. What I have say may not set well with preconceived notions, but it is the truth.

[NeGlassesGirl27]

But what I am saying is that I fully believe that not EVERY child/teenager who's told they have to wear glasses, don't wear them for the fear of being bullied. I think 9 times out of 10 most of the reason is that they are just being stubborn kids.

When I sell glasses to a kid for the 1st time, I always ask "Do any of your friends wear glasses?" And guess what? Generally they'll always say "Yes, so and so wears them and so and so wears them" Same thing with Rec Specs. Parents/children don't want to wear them because they think they are ugly. You can get fashionable protective eyewear for children and the amount of kids wearing them has increased over the years.

I have volunteered with multiple events with Special Olympics and school screenings to know that these kids cannot see and yes, the school work goes down the tubes. What everyone is trying to say is that WE can only do so much. WE can send out letters to those parents from screenings and the Special Olympics but it's up to THEM to bring their child in and it's up to the PARENT to make their child wear glasses if they're told they need them. I think we all know that of course their school work isn't very good because they DO need glasses and what is the solution? You have the parent bring the child into an eye doctor, they're told they need glasses, yet they don't do anything about it.

[chip anderson]

Two stories of children:
1) My child, when his Rx was -1.00 he had two pair that usually were both lost. When his Rx got to -3.00 he started sleeping in them.
2) My child's baby sitter came to see me with her mother at about age 14 for contacts, the child's Rx was -10.00. Had not worn glasses. Her mother said she had glasses when she was much younger but she wouldn't wear them. The child actually said she would hide the glasses in the bushes before catching the school bus and put them back on before going home.
Glad she survived long enough to get contacts.

Now you just knows how many of these medicaid patients that get +0.50 -0.50 x ?? are going to wear them. Surely they aren't prescribed just to make a sale.


Chip

[optilady1]

The "R" word as you put it is exactly what I was called in the 2nd grade and it is still used to describe any child who has a full scale IQ and adaptive behavior measure below a standard score of 70 in the state where I live and in many other states. Over the years several children were referred to me for evaluation because of poor classroom achievement who turned out to have near normal IQs when tested. The reason they were unable to achieve was that they couldn't see well enough to do so and knew that if they appeared in school wearing glasses their lives would become unbearable. The reason I am posting all this is to try to explain what was probably going on with the boy who is the subject of this thread.

I have openly stated I am a novice in the optical world who wants to learn from seasoned people in the field and that's why I read this board. But in this discussion I am the seasoned person. What I have say may not set well with preconceived notions, but it is the truth.

So what are you suggesting? That it's ok and understandable for kids not to wear glasses because they are being brutalized? I get it, I didn't grow up in the inner city, and I was in the nerdy smart class (hard to believe if you've met me, but it's true, I promise) and we all wore glasses, or braces, or some combination of both. So in those instances I understand maybe kids are hiding there glasses.
But for average kids, their parents need to be making those kids wear them glasses. And this thread started because some dumb dumb parent gave in to her spoiled teenager. Parents need to be parents and kids need to respect.