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Thread: Anyone Else Feel This Way ???

  1. #1
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    Anyone Else Feel This Way ???

    Thursday March 17th before Vision Expo East, First Vision Media Group will be leading a panel on Opticianry in the US.

    In this 2 hour discussion leading opticians and optical industry professionals will share their thoughts on:
    • Should Opticianry have national licensing or certification?
    • Does Opticianry need uniform education and continuing education?
    • How do Opticians promote opticianry as a health career
    • How to build respect for the profession?
    Led by Ed De Gennaro, the other panelists will be Kristi Green (NFOS) Danne Ventura (NAO, Barry Santini (ORBA), Laurie Peirce (Society to Advance Opticianry) Kathryn Ring, The Guild of Prescription Opticians_
    The event will be held at the Jabob Javits Center, Room 1E-08 from 10-12 am.

    I often say that opticians are their own worst enemies.
    Every so often they prove me 100% right…

    I am not big on this blogging thing and you all know the saying about opinions, however, every once in awhile some thing comes across my desk that just makes me say, “What?”

    I like to think of myself as being part of the modern age of opticianry. That age being the period after the introduction of CR-39 and the switch from opticianry being a care based field to a fashion-based field.

    How can it be that after forty plus years in the modern age of opticianry we are still holding public forums at events as large and as important as Vision Expo and be asking these questions?

    Let us start with the last question listed as a bullet point, “How do we build respect for the practice of opticianry?” The answer is a simple one, “You don’t.” At least not until you get answers and results for the preceding questions!

    Bullet point one: “Should opticianry have national licensing or certification?”

    Are you kidding me?

    Why isn’t the question, “After forty years why doesn’t opticianry have national recognition and who is to blame?” The answer to that question is, we don’t because we are still asking the first question starting with, “should” instead of the second one asking why we don’t already have it.

    We don’t have national recognition because as a profession we are lazy and complacent. Look at any opticianry related site and all you see are the same people making all the contributions. The “gurus” of our profession are out of touch with the industry and out of touch with why we are stuck where we are. Until some fresh blood steps up to the plate and shakes things up we will still be seeing seminars like this one, asking the same old inappropriate questions, popping up at Vision Expo 2021.

    Let us look at bullet point two: “Does it need uniform education and continuing education standards?”

    Why isn’t the question, “After forty years why have we failed to bring about a uniform level of education?”

    We don’t have a level of uniform education because the opticianry schools and education programs are not delivering what the industry wants. Opticianry schools, training programs and most of all, certification exams, need to provide experience in sales, inventory management, insurance, basic dispensing skills, and business sense. We need to insist on students that have communication and computer skills above a fifth grade level! If you want an industry to support you, you need to supply that industry with what they need, just look at nursing as the prime example, why do you think that hospitals have nursing schools?

    And the third bullet point: “How do we promote opticianry as a health care career to students?”

    This one really makes me angry.

    You are asking, “How?” when the answer is, “We don’t because it is not!”

    This is where, as a profession, we make a mistake and why we will always be a second shelf product. Opticianry is about making money. We are NOT providing health care, that is the doctor’s job, not ours. We are in a optical practice to make it successful. If we are not doing that then we are a liability and do not deserve to be treated as a profession, as an important part of an industry or as being worthy of support and a living wage.

    You want respect?

    Earn it!

    You want change

    Stop sitting on your butt listening to the same old people say the same old things.

    John Seegers www.opticianworks.com

  2. #2
    Compulsive Truthteller OptiBoard Gold Supporter Uncle Fester's Avatar
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    Sorry to be such a cynic but if we want change on a national level we must pay to play and very few of us see the worth in creating the pool of money necessary to pay the lobbyist to pay the politicians to get this done.

    Throw in the fact corporate America (not to mention OD's) will fight this tooth and nail and you'll see why I think we would be shoveling sand against the tide.

    The best we can hope for is to get licensing at the State level for those that are not. And even those states will need to be dominated by Democrats.
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 03-18-2011 at 10:00 AM.

  3. #3
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    Our state is dominated by dimocrats, has been since about 180. Most of our opticians are not dimocrats. We have been blocked by OD's from getting licenseing for over 50 years. Are the OD's predominately dimocrats?

    Chip

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter DragonLensmanWV's Avatar
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    Nope.
    DragonlensmanWV N.A.O.L.
    "There is nothing patriotic about hating your government or pretending you can hate your government but love your country."

  5. #5
    Compulsive Truthteller OptiBoard Gold Supporter Uncle Fester's Avatar
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    Mississippi~ dimo's- dimocrats in name only. :)

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    Professional Rabble-Rouser hipoptical's Avatar
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    I agree with John, first of all. I think, though that it is a futile battle to wage. It is not a democan or a republicrat issue (nor green party, tea party, frat party, or birthday party). The problem is money, but it's not that opticians lack the funds required to lobby. It's about the control of the money that currently exists in this industry. You can license everyone in this industry, but at the end of the day, who is more likely to garner the trust of the general public, a licensed optician, or Dr. X? Unless you are educated enough to be called doctor, you will always be second. You must be willing to fight to change society to accomplish this. The ODs will fight for control of what they can, the MDs will fight for what they can. They have titles, you don't- not really. They are lords of the land, we are serfs. Doctors know eyes, we know lenses, but not in the public's eyes. The public thinks that doctors know everything, and we just do what we're told.
    Find a doctor who elevates his opticians and encourages his patients to listen to them, and you'll find a very successful practice. That is the way to change the industry. Start with the docs, then move forward with education. When a doctor sees the benefit of this model, he will encourage and support education and training- because it makes more money in the end.
    Aim at heaven and you will get earth thrown in. Aim at earth and you get neither. C.S. Lewis

    An explanation of cause is not a justification by reason. C.S. Lewis

  7. #7
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    Thanks for the reply hipoptical.

    I really like your, "Start with the docs, then move forward with education."
    Of course that may become a matter of which comes first!
    Will the docs listen before we have something to show them?

  8. #8
    Master OptiBoarder optical24/7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John@OWDC View Post
    .......

    I often say that opticians are their own worst enemies.
    Every so often they prove me 100% right…

    I am not big on this blogging thing and you all know the saying about opinions, however, every once in awhile some thing comes across my desk that just makes me say, “What?”

    I like to think of myself as being part of the modern age of opticianry. That age being the period after the introduction of CR-39 and the switch from opticianry being a care based field to a fashion-based field.

    This is true if you consider yourself a frame stylist only. Though fashion has become a more dominate theme the last 40 years, the optics still need to be there. People don't wear glasses to look good, they wear them to see. In fact they wouldn't wear them at all if they weren't needed. You not only need a fashion sense but also knowledge of optics, products and solutions to visual tasks along with troubleshooting skills (optical knowledge).

    How can it be that after forty plus years in the modern age of opticianry we are still holding public forums at events as large and as important as Vision Expo and be asking these questions?

    Let us start with the last question listed as a bullet point, “How do we build respect for the practice of opticianry?” The answer is a simple one, “You don’t.” At least not until you get answers and results for the preceding questions!

    Bullet point one: “Should opticianry have national licensing or certification?”

    Are you kidding me?

    Why isn’t the question, “After forty years why doesn’t opticianry have national recognition and who is to blame?” The answer to that question is, we don’t because we are still asking the first question starting with, “should” instead of the second one asking why we don’t already have it.

    Keep in mind that even optometry and medical (Dr's) don't have reciprocity from state to state. You must take each states own exam to practice there. We (opticians) don't even have licensure in most states. Why? quite frankly is that the moneyed part of our industry doesn't support it, but represses it. They enjoy the added profits by keeping salaries down.

    We don’t have national recognition because as a profession we are lazy and complacent. Look at any opticianry related site and all you see are the same people making all the contributions. The “gurus” of our profession are out of touch with the industry and out of touch with why we are stuck where we are. Until some fresh blood steps up to the plate and shakes things up we will still be seeing seminars like this one, asking the same old inappropriate questions, popping up at Vision Expo 2021.

    I agree with your first sentence, I would call it apathy. Apathy from constantly running into brick walls when it comes to expansion of scope of practice. (Even simple licensure)

    Let us look at bullet point two: “Does it need uniform education and continuing education standards?”

    Why isn’t the question, “After forty years why have we failed to bring about a uniform level of education?”

    Once again, due to lack of "need" (i.e. getting a job). Without the "need" of education in most states why would someone go to school for 2 years to earn 10.50 an hour?

    We don’t have a level of uniform education because the opticianry schools and education programs are not delivering what the industry wants. Opticianry schools, training programs and most of all, certification exams, need to provide experience in sales, inventory management, insurance, basic dispensing skills, and business sense. We need to insist on students that have communication and computer skills above a fifth grade level! If you want an industry to support you, you need to supply that industry with what they need, just look at nursing as the prime example, why do you think that hospitals have nursing schools?

    What NFOS schools don't provide this? They all do to my knowledge, but once again, these graduates are a small fraction of the nearly 80k opticians out there. Also keep in mind that many of those skills are not sought nor needed. For example look at LC, the largest employer of opticians. How many of their associates make those type of decision at the store level? Virtually none, it's decided by corporate. The vast majority of opticians are indians, not chiefs.

    John, I love your website! I think it's a fantastic source of knowledge. But even you don't have any of these (highlighted) areas covered in your tutorials.


    And the third bullet point: “How do we promote opticianry as a health care career to students?”

    This one really makes me angry.

    You are asking, “How?” when the answer is, “We don’t because it is not!”

    Do you not think we are furthering the care of the patient?

    This is where, as a profession, we make a mistake and why we will always be a second shelf product. Opticianry is about making money. We are NOT providing health care, that is the doctor’s job, not ours. We are in a optical practice to make it successful. If we are not doing that then we are a liability and do not deserve to be treated as a profession, as an important part of an industry or as being worthy of support and a living wage.

    By the same token and logic, are not optometrist salesmen too? Have you looked at any recent optometry magazines? Are they discussing the latest ophthalmic techniques? The ones I see are all headlines on "capture rates" or "how to sell from the chair" or "how to escort and hand-off your patients to your dispensary". We are all trying to make money (unless someone's in this as a hobby) so we can continue to operate in a field we enjoy.

    You want respect?

    Earn it!

    You want change

    Stop sitting on your butt listening to the same old people say the same old things.

    John Seegers www.opticianworks.com
    John, there are folks out there trying to make change. I personally know many that have been trying, some for 30+ years. Why have they not been totally successful? Because education is not required. Let me ask you this...If you didn't need a drivers license, would you still go out and get one? I think most would not if it were not required.

    About 110 years ago, forward thinking refracting opticians banded together and created a unifying curriculum called optometry schools. Within 24 years they managed to have optometry laws in every state. Opticianry needs the same type of forward thinking. But optician apathy and resistance from outside forces will be very difficult to overcome. I hope you'll join us in our attempt at a renaissance of those forward thinking opticians of a century ago.

    George

  9. #9
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    George,

    Wow, thanks.
    This is just the kind of discussion I was hoping this post might bring about.

  10. #10
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    Wasn't this the initial intent of the ABO when they formed almost 40 years ago? Yet today still, anyone can sit for a simple test, with no past optical anything, and claim to be a "certified" optician if they pass. As to the money, it's there. Heck, they got embezzeled for a boat load and no one noticed.

    I took and passed my ABO 36 years ago, and let it expire 1 year later. I had the feeling that it was never going to be any better than my license, and up to today, they haven't dissapointed me. It's very hard to put your faith, trust, and money out there when all of these past groups have accomplished almost zero towards really moving the bar up.

    A hundred bucks and some trade rag Ce's and I'm "certified", yeah right. Your right, we are in fact our own worst enemy.


    AAS in Ophthalmic Dispensing
    NY Licensed Optician
    NC Licensed Optician

  11. #11
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
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    Look, licensure today for opticians is about as truly useful as a marker of accomplishment as a bachelor degree. you need so much more than that. Do Not look to the schools to do this. They can't, mainly because there's no way to incliude more in a curriculum that is alerady bursting the seams in a two year degree.

    Outcome-based results are what everyone is looking for, and we're not getting their if all we think about is a medicval model.

    Period.

    B

  12. #12
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Now I See's Avatar
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    What a great discussion!!

    Working WITH supportive doctors is the way to go. Getting ALL the states licenced is the way to go. I see it, I can see it happening. More and more I'm talking with Opticians and more and more are wanting a change, and I think, are willing to do something about it. I attended a short program on goal setting the other night, and the Life Coach that was speaking kept driving home one point that has kept me thinking. He kept saying, 'If nothing changes, nothing changes.'

    There is alot of discussion about the obstacles we face, but we are focusing on those that keep us down....maybe if we focus on those people, companies, doctors, etc. that support Opticians as a profession we can find a way to reach our goals.
    ___________________________________________

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Now I See's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Santini View Post
    Look, licensure today for opticians is about as truly useful as a marker of accomplishment as a bachelor degree. you need so much more than that. Do Not look to the schools to do this. They can't, mainly because there's no way to incliude more in a curriculum that is alerady bursting the seams in a two year degree.

    Outcome-based results are what everyone is looking for, and we're not getting their if all we think about is a medicval model.

    Period.

    B
    I don't know Barry, having a license in many states is a huge deal, and hopefully will become the minimum needed in all states. After that, I agree, we can't look to schools for more, but we should be looking to our associations that offer continuing education to give us more.
    ___________________________________________

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    Quote Originally Posted by obxeyeguy View Post
    Wasn't this the initial intent of the ABO when they formed almost 40 years ago? Yet today still, anyone can sit for a simple test, with no past optical anything, and claim to be a "certified" optician if they pass. As to the money, it's there. Heck, they got embezzeled for a boat load and no one noticed.

    I took and passed my ABO 36 years ago, and let it expire 1 year later. I had the feeling that it was never going to be any better than my license, and up to today, they haven't dissapointed me. It's very hard to put your faith, trust, and money out there when all of these past groups have accomplished almost zero towards really moving the bar up.

    A hundred bucks and some trade rag Ce's and I'm "certified", yeah right. Your right, we are in fact our own worst enemy.


    AAS in Ophthalmic Dispensing
    NY Licensed Optician
    NC Licensed Optician
    I agree, I have my ABO, as well, but I've kept it up...why? Well, my hope has always been that somehow the ABO and state license would go hand-in-hand...so far that's not happened. However, I was at SECO and the ABO had a booth there, those that were there seemed like they felt the same way we do. Seeing them there, encouraged me somehow...I'm not saying we should all to start holding hands and singing "Kumbayah" any time soon,;), but maybe we're all ready for something new.
    ___________________________________________

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    Quote Originally Posted by Now I See View Post
    I agree, I have my ABO, as well, but I've kept it up...why? Well, my hope has always been that somehow the ABO and state license would go hand-in-hand...so far that's not happened. However, I was at SECO and the ABO had a booth there, those that were there seemed like they felt the same way we do. Seeing them there, encouraged me somehow...I'm not saying we should all to start holding hands and singing "Kumbayah" any time soon,;), but maybe we're all ready for something new.
    They were selling that 30 plus years ago also, and what have they done? Nada, ziltch, zero, other than to get many states to "water" down their requirements to include the ABO as the written test for a license.:hammer: What exactly does this "certification" give you? Respect?? Professional?? Educated? Hardly, just a piece of paper on the wall.

    Not to be a nay sayer, but as optical24/7 said, with the number of chain (indian) "fashion optical sell my butt off commissioned opticians", we are nothing more than a retail clerk selling shoes.

    Progressing this field will be a tough road, the ones up above will fight, so they don't have to pay, and most have had zero respect for our abilities anyhow, and the big chains will fight for the same reason, money!!

    I really hate to agree with Barry;), but until we can prove that the public is being harmed in some way by "inferior" staffing, internet eyewear, ect, we go nowhere.

    Good luck with this fight, I'm getting too old for this again...

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Santini View Post
    Look, licensure today for opticians is about as truly useful as a marker of accomplishment as a bachelor degree. you need so much more than that. Do Not look to the schools to do this. They can't, mainly because there's no way to incliude more in a curriculum that is alerady bursting the seams in a two year degree.

    Outcome-based results are what everyone is looking for, and we're not getting their if all we think about is a medicval model.

    Period.

    B
    Barry,

    "... you need so much more than that."

    Like?
    And where do you get it if not from school?


    "...because there's no way to incliude more in a curriculum that is alerady bursting the seams in a two year degree."

    And who designs the curriculum?
    Who guides the development for a technical class like opticianry?
    What does the syllabus look like?
    What is being taught in all those classes?



    ...and we're not getting their if all we think about is a medicval model."

    So, are you saying you agree that a change in the model is necessary?

    Should the model be business and then opticianry?


    "Period."

    I was hoping that you of all people would continue dialogue on this topic since you were part of the panel.

    Thanks
    John

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Now I See's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obxeyeguy View Post
    ......Good luck with this fight, I'm getting too old for this again...
    LOL... **ding, ding** round 1...remember folks, let's fight fair, and no punching below the belt! :bbg: Just promise you'll save us an umbrella-shaded spot in the sand! :shiner:
    ___________________________________________

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    Master OptiBoarder kat's Avatar
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    All of the above is very well said and stated. I agree that our field has not pushed certification or Licensure far enough along. In AZ we have two optician's groups that worked solo for many years with declining membership, they eventually decided to work together for the betterment of all Opticians. If we can't even work together in our own states, how do we expect to work together as a national group. ORBA has been very helpful in trying to advance Opticianary in the USA, but as all have said before me, we have along way to go!!!
    I came, I saw, I left

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    Quote Originally Posted by kat View Post
    ORBA has been very helpful in trying to advance Opticianary in the USA, but as all have said before me, we have along way to go!!!
    What or who exactly is ORBA? I don't recognize this acronym.

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    <<<<<This is where, as a profession, we make a mistake and why we will always be a second shelf product. Opticianry is about making money. We are NOT providing health care, that is the doctor’s job, not ours. We are in a optical practice to make it successful.>>>>>

    This makes me cringe. And in all honesty, I find this to be a major problem with our industry. I don't care what all the rest of you call yourself, but don't ever refer to me as a saleman. My job is to find the best possible product for my patient, along the lines of a pharmacist. Selling is a secondary concern. Luckily, my doctor is like-minded.

    Deb in NJ

  21. #21
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    Deb,

    You missed the point...

    Nothing in that statement says anything about sales.
    It says that our role is to make the practice successful.
    We do that by understanding and guiding inventory, returns, knowing the wholesale costs of the products we use, when we can use a lower cost product over a high cost one, what our marks up are, how insurance effects the practice bottom line, and driving income by our professional knowledge and skill. Being a part of paying the bills, working with the labs and the frame companies.

    Let us be honest, "filling" an eyeglass prescription is really not the same thing as filling a drug Rx. If it were then we would have federal regulations in place and need a PharmD to dispense them.

    If thinking that you are in health care makes you feel warm and fuzzy well good for you.
    I would just have to ask, as a profession how has that been working out for us?

    Opticians will NEVER get anywhere competing with the doctors by trying to sell our selves as health care professionals.
    If we can show the industry that when they hire trained opticians their practice thrives then we have clout.

    Leave the health care to the doctors and the business of running the optical dispensary to the opticians and then we will see the industry embrace us instead of shun us.

  22. #22
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    An optician that I used to work for used to say that everybody is in sales. The preacher sells Jesus, the OD sells eye health, the hooker sells sex.





    Opticians sell knowledge. Optical store employees sell glasses.

  23. #23
    Master OptiBoarder Darryl Meister's Avatar
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    What or who exactly is ORBA? I don't recognize this acronym.
    Optical Retail Business Alliance

    Should Opticianry have national licensing or certification?
    Opticianry already has national certification through the ABO. And licensure will not be a "national" requirement, it is a state requirement. I imagine that they intended to discuss uniform licensing across all states, instead.

    That said, while these debates serve as a useful vehicle to increase awareness of these issues, if not as a painful reminder of the ever unchanging status quo, how many professional opticians would really ever argue against proposals such as uniform licensure or certification or education requirements?

    The VisionExpo panel comprises mainly representatives of professional opticianry and opticianry education who are obviously proponents of these topics. But where are the opponents to argue their points, the associations fighting legal maneuvers for opticianry licensure, for instance?

    Most opticians already know the answers to the "should we?" questions. But this profession will never get anywhere until someone starts to focus on realistic solutions to the "how do we?" questions. Otherwise, such panel discussions will remain verbal "op-ed" pieces that will quickly fade out of memory, at least until the next one.

    Best regards,
    Darryl
    Darryl J. Meister, ABOM

  24. #24
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    I guess I'm just too old to get excited about this anymore. All we've done as a profession is to form new organizations, continually dividing our base, rather than organizing within existing ones.

    Again, my "crabs in a bucket" analogy holds firm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousCat View Post
    I guess I'm just too old to get excited about this anymore. All we've done as a profession is to form new organizations, continually dividing our base, rather than organizing within existing ones.
    I think I'm in this boat as well. In 32 years all I have heard from the Michigan Optician Association is blah blah blah.

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